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Old 10-18-2013, 12:19 PM   #1
timbits
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: VIC
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Default Tire groover

Anybody have a tire groover they can lend me? Or know a tire shop that will do some tire reshaping? I'm trying to turn a new set of winters into a competition set for rallycross etc..
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:11 PM   #2
Zefy
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Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada
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99 2.5TS (DEAD) / 87 GL

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Some kal tire shops have them. Also I know a guy that has one but I'm not sure he lends it out and he's close to Harrison so not very close... I think he's more interested in selling it...
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:25 PM   #3
alexinvancouver
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Tim, new rules don't allow modified tires for sno-x if you're talking about that.
it's either rally tires, street (winter) unmodified or factory studded tires.
that's it
for rally-x yes, you can cut them
and if you want it i can lend one.
it's a cheap ebay thing (like $40) but does the job if you know what you're doing =o)
pm me
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:39 PM   #4
timbits
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Thanks for the info! Alex, I may take you up on your offer.

I'm probably gonna use this most for thunderbird rally. My navigator (wife) is not a big fan of digging and try as I might, the snowbanks have it in for me!

If I ever get around to running winter snow x in Ashcroft, I wonder if they'll let me run them in rally tire class?
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:32 PM   #5
alexinvancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbits View Post
If I ever get around to running winter snow x in Ashcroft, I wonder if they'll let me run them in rally tire class?
not likely, but you got to ask them for sure =o)
i have a set w/rally studs i run once only because they changed the rules.
spent bunch of money and efforts and it's just sitting in my garage useless
but why do you want to modify tires for something like t-bird?
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:31 PM   #6
timbits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexinvancouver View Post
...but why do you want to modify tires for something like t-bird?
I'm getting tired of all the digging...
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:11 PM   #7
Zefy
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what tires are you running?
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:23 AM   #8
timbits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zefy View Post
what tires are you running?
Ipike w409. The main problem I think is I put 20+ thousand on my snows each year so they're really good the first year, and much less so the year after etc.

I'm building up a competition only set and figured why not modify them a little bit...?
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #9
Zefy
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Default

snow requires lots of tread depth. Ice requires lots of siping. You can't really increase tread depth unless you actually want to regroove the tire. Typically street tires don't have enough meat between the treads to do this.

If the goal is ice traction, then get them tractionized. I think rocket has one... This will probably give you best results however it's unlikely they'd last past the weekend. I'm also not sure if you can tractionize a used tire...

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Old 10-25-2013, 02:03 PM   #10
onur
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you don't want to tractionize tires that will be driven on the street. They are only good for about 20-40km per set when on a proper rally car, so let's say for a street car prob more than that but still this would be a usuless practice for something like Tbird. You will end up just melting them away and be left with no thread + they suck on any kind of slush or deep snow. Secondly, chances are you are not able to do tractionizing yourself as it's bit a complex process and Rocket will not want to do it for you.

option 1) buy new good decent tires.

snow and ice tires can be different tires. Because a particular tire is good on snow doesn't mean it's good on ice. That's why we prefered to have a good ice tire than open up the threads a bit by cutting them for increased snow traction. Usually this is the best combo. If I was to choose one all round new tire for what you are doing and not do anything, it would be Nokian Hakka R.

option 2) you have somewhat used tires, you can sharpen the edges on them and make them perform somewhat better by cutting them if you know what you are doing. but now you are also decreasing rubber to ground area which you need on ice

option 3) you can buy new tires and still cut them to increase snow traction. We used to do this with our own yokohama IG20 tires since they were great on ice but lacked snow traction as the threads got packed with snow.

The thing with tire grooving, by any means it's not rocket science, but you can also cause more harm than good in terms of thread life. I suggest you buy a good solid tire and don't touch it and if you are spending more time in the ditch than driving, maybe slow it down a notch if you can. But hey, who am i to say. I spent a lot of time digging, walking, being rescued more than once.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:21 PM   #11
Zefy
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Default

I did not realize that tractionized tires have such poor tread life... Makes sense.... Ya ignore what I said...

I did use a set of studded kw19's at big white winter rally that had fresh edges cut on the outsides of the tires and the tread opened up a bit. With the "rally length" studs they were awesome.

There is a guy selling a pair of kw19's with the rally length studs for 150 new. So you'd need to find another pair somewhere. They are a really great tire and seem to be a solid choice for regional rally in studded form. there is a big thread on special stage about snow tire choices and the kw19 is mentioned many times and I'm really pleased with both my sets.

Much cheaper than most other options to. Finding the kumho branded ones is kinda hard but they're sold at Walmart among other places under the marshal brand.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #12
onur
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I never wanted to use studs or get used to them. In the CRC they weren't allowed so I saw no point.

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish I guess. This comes from the winner of the "Studless is faster" award hehe
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:41 PM   #13
alexinvancouver
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u don't want to use rally studs during for driving on tarmac and if he wants it for t-bird
driving on hwy for a few hundred km's can not be avoided
i have a pretty much brand new set of tires with rally studs but i wouldn't bother using them for tsd rally
unless ALL the roads were covered with snow and ice (ahhh... dream on)
and if tim has a few extra bux and wishes to avoid (or do less digging =o)) then rally snow tires would be the best bet.
of course those won't last too long either
it all comes down to money.
surely nokian is best (or one of the best)
but if u're on the budget then nokian clone general altimax arctic almost twice cheaper
i use those for sno-x's because i'm a cheap guy =o) but they served me real good
p.s. also heard Vredestein winter tires are among the best but couldn't locate them last year
interesting tread pattern. hah? ...don't like round edges though

Last edited by alexinvancouver; 10-25-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 04:31 PM   #14
Zefy
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Default

you misunderstand my use of the term "rally stud". The studs you have Alex are not legal for running in canadian regional stage rally. Rally studs that are legal can only protrude a relatively small amount from from the tire tread compared to real rally studs.

These are what regional rally folks are allowed to run on their stage car.



But ya studless is cool if you have a034's...

And I have a feeling that Timbits is not going to compete in the CRC and if he does get into stage rally he's probably going to be regional where you're allowed to use studs. And for overall traction and keeping him out of the snowbanks, studs are the way to go. It lacks the "huge balls" factor but it also keeps his shovel from getting used so much...
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:01 PM   #15
alexinvancouver
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those look good
and i have to get a shovel this time.
last year hit the snow bunk trying to avoid hitting a legacy stuck before right turn
so had to borrow it from them to dig mine out (they just gave up on their lego)
... i just don't carry it in my trunk coz i'm a bit superstitious =o)
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:53 PM   #16
timbits
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Yeah, no CRC for me... I just got a new set of studded cooper weather master st's that I'm gonna use strictly for TSDs and maybe snow x. Having full tread depth year after year is gonna be nice, as are the studs.



I chose this one because it's chunky and looks like a good candidate for some tread block removal here and there. But if that's not allowed, il just leave them alone. Most of my TSD crashes are in the really deep snow, where the car leaves the grooves and just goes dead stick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexinvancouver View Post
interesting tread pattern. hah? ...don't like round edges though
That's my reason for wanting to cut the tires a bit. Square off the corners on the shoulder knobs. The coopers have very soft, rounded shoulders.

Last edited by timbits; 10-27-2013 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:19 PM   #17
Dragon_Ski
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Does this mean your in for Totem ?
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