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Old 10-14-2013, 05:38 PM   #1
Clutch Dog
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Real Steel

Default Dyno Run: EJ251 NA w/ 161whp No cam!!!

Event: Baseline Dyno Run
Location: MAX RPM Motorsports, Bremerton Washington, USA, Earth
Ambient Temp: 65F
Elevation: Feet?... Inches *maybe* 30.45 in-hg (sea level)
Weather: Cool, Cloudy... Welcome to the Pac Nor West

Tires: Toyo Proxes T1 Sports, 235/45-17

Car: 2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5rs Coupe
Tuner: Stock Tune
Dyno Info: Dynojet
Transmission: Stock 5 Speed
Gear: 4th
Peak HP at RPM: 126whp @ 5450 rpm
Peak Torque at RPM: 140 ft-lbs @ ~2800 RPM
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: ..... it is stock? EJ251 stock
Target AFR: 13.0.. stock
Fuel: Unleaded 92 oct
Engine/Power Modifications: Gorilla Motorsports Beta-test Hood Mounted Intake
Driveline Modifications: STOCK
Suspension Modifications: Fortune Auto 500 Coilovers, camber plates, and custom spring rated springs 9k/9k f/r
Other Modifications: 17x8 OZ rims, Brembo/sti brake calipers f/r with DBA 4000 Rotors.




[video]https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10202210015998021[/video]

Went to Max RPM today for a long anticipated Dyno tune. Completely stock car minus a hood mounted intake. Beta box from Gorilla Motorsports company. Hella happy right now, consistant runs got a 126/141 overall and there's not much to say otherwise..


ran 92 oct, motor is original no work at 146k miles.

thoughts?

Im aiming for stock wrx numbers with my build. the farthest im going on this motor is hi comp pistons EL headers and some valvetrain work stge 3 twe cam and some extrude honing. Hoping for at least 180whp someday. maybe break the 200hp mark.

=========================Update March 2014 ================================================== =======================


Event: Getting tuned
Location: Drift Office, Washington, USA, Earth
Ambient Temp: 58F
Elevation: Feet?... Inches *maybe* 30.45 in-hg (sea level)
Weather: Cool, Cloudy... Welcome to the Pac Nor West

Tires: Toyo Proxes T1 Sports, 235/45-17
Car: 2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5rs Coupe
Tuner: Drift Office
Dyno Info: Dynojet
Transmission: Stock 5 Speed
Gear: 4th
Peak HP at RPM: 161.48 whp @ 5650 rpm
Peak Torque at RPM: 171.54 ft-lbs @ 2920 RPM
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno:
Peak HP at RPM: 126whp @ 5450 rpm
Peak Torque at RPM: 140 ft-lbs @ ~2800 RPM
Target AFR: 13.0 It liked this the most.
Fuel: Unleaded 92 oct

Engine/Power Modifications:
-Gorilla Motorsports Hood Mounted Intake 2.0
- TWE ported throttle body
- Boneheaded Performance Extrude honed intake manifold ( and bench flow'd)
- TWE HO EL Headers 2.0
- Tsudo hi flow cat
- custom 2.5" midpipe
- Prodrive Ovaltip Muffler ( I mated the midpipe to fit only turbo exhausts so no modifications needed)
- Vipec v44 unit

Driveline Modifications: STOCK, (shifter bushings, kartboy type)

Suspension Modifications:
-Fortune Auto 500 Coilovers, camber plates, and custom spring rated springs 9k/9k f/r

Other Modifications:
-17x8 OZ rims,
-Brembo/sti brake calipers f/r with DBA 4000 Rotors,
- All the stickers







So long story semi short. I came to Maxrpm ( not bad people at all) and asked them the same question I had been looking to for the better part of a year. now my car had all the normal bolt ons that one would buy for this car. maybe a bit more then a standard bolt on car ( i mean who extrude hones things anymore) But never the less i was running around on the car with it untuned and thought hey. let's get a tuner who can support a cam and allow me to grow with the motor. Unfortunately Maxrpm couldnt give me anything as their tuners where not compatablegarblegarblesomething with my subaru..

Okay fine! I did the thing i should have from the start I know a guy out east who races a 03 subaru in the Nasa rally stages. Eric W****, drives the turbotime car. Pretty cool guy. Anyways I ask him his advice. and got in reply. Vipec


Vipec?.... like. I dont even know. So I do a quick search on google and read up on it. Looks good. but still not convinced. Do a google search for vipec dealers in my area.

Drift office, huh? So.. rwd cars, they wont work on a MAP based subaru. esp none turbo... Still I left a message. got a call back that same night and talked to Bill. Who is the tuner there. He was happy to see the car. Said the owner Bob had a 2.5rs he worked on too, and it ran a vipec. They loved it. I sched a time to bring the car over for a consult and hung up. Score on score. dude had an RS he tuned it with a vipec. these guys are the guys to trust. Bill also happens to be a Evo/sti/wrx tuner making your standard cobb tunes look like ****.

So I go over there with a buddy and they sit me down give me all the words why i should buy it. I tour the shop then as they are ready to let me leave I throw them the keys and say I want it. And the car is theirs till they get everything together (its winter. im not really driving it and prevents me from driving to Seattle again)

They keep the car, do some magic and BAM. everyone loved the car. Had a small idle issue ( bad porting job on throttlebody... I think) but otherwise they had fun and loved it ( this is coming from guys who work on ae86's and turbo frs's all day) So it's at home now waiting on a new throttle body.....


Note: the stickers are just a thing. they'll go away soon enough
Note 2: to all those guys who are interested in seeing what it takes to make a 200 chp 2.5rs
Extrude hone: 600 bucks plus cost of ej251 intake (mine was used on here 60 bucks)
Vipec unit: 2160
Tune: 750
TWE headers: 1200
TWE Throttle body: 400 (iirc...)
tsudo downpipe: 200 (something its on ebay. no ****)
midpipe: did it myself with some autozone exhaust pipe and parts of my own stock midpipe
Muffler: 300 bucks
Gorilla intake box: 380~
Intake spacers: 40 bucks


So... for nearly 6 grand, you have this. ORRRR you could buy a wrx/sti long block and do the swap.

You can see why guys boost now..
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Last edited by Clutch Dog; 03-30-2014 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:11 PM   #2
20WRX03
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200hp mark maybe a little too high for the crank. Mine spun a bearing.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:16 PM   #3
02 wrx roar
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Same crank as a wrx or sti its good for 500 easy thats not gonna be a problem and if u spun bearning it wasnt bc of the crank just sayn but needless to say i want to see a high hp number NA...
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:20 PM   #4
scampbell2x
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I wish there was a dyno around my parts. I have the same car, same year same color. Delta 2000 cams, EL headers, 2.5" exhaust, 12lb flywheel, fenderwell intake with velocity stack going through stock box w/ KN filter, Delicious Tuning stg 3 reflash. Feels amazing. Keep us posted on the progress!
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:04 AM   #5
Clutch Dog
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Sounds like somwhat where I was going.. i wish i could see your numbers. the mechanic said that it's impressive to get solid numbers like that on an older car. it only has a 143k miles on the motor. so really i think it's fair game.

i was wondering about that. would an sti crank fit the block? I am going to do a big motor build with forged internals and custom pistons on another block and an sti crank would make life easier
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:04 AM   #6
Scooby921
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Please update your first post with the required format for posting results in the Proven Power Bragging forum. You can find the required format here:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1858764
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:33 PM   #7
scampbell2x
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if i'm not mistaken, the crank that's in there is the same as the EJ257....at least that's what I was told.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:46 AM   #8
Clutch Dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
Please update your first post with the required format for posting results in the Proven Power Bragging forum. You can find the required format here:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1858764


wow.. stingy..


okay updated. <_< gonna be easy to find me. NA cars here are like.... micheal jackson's nose when touring arizona.. there, but hard to find most nights
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:03 AM   #9
Clutch Dog
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and btw. yes. any stage 2 crank will fit the block. so even an ej255 crankshaft. which im sure is the same on those ej257's would fit.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:12 PM   #10
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^^^phase 2 crank...not stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20WRX03 View Post
200hp mark maybe a little too high for the crank. Mine spun a bearing.
It is the same crank that came in the 04-07 STi...not the cranks fault
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #11
Clutch Dog
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sounds like an oiling problem.w here you on the stock oil pump?. or stock bearings?
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:40 AM   #12
scampbell2x
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any updates?
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:17 PM   #13
snake32
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how those fortune 500's feel? i got them with the street comfort springs, 8/6k
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:48 PM   #14
Back Road Runner
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Address cams, the heads, and even the intake manifold. Cobb did flow testing on these parts a long time ago and made a tech article about them. The throttle body + intake manifold and the heads + cams are both tuned identical for flow and are geared to the same rpm range. My view on the subject is you should address not only the cams but also the heads (potentially going oversized valves) and intake manifold. The downside is NO ONE makes an aftermarket intake manifold for the old NA. You are basically stuck fabricating up something yourself. You will be looking for both larger diameter runners and shorter runner length overall. You also want to up size the plenum area by quite a bit. It's actually a bit small stock and the air box is used as a secondary inline resonator to compensate for this (why your AFRs go to crap if you remove the stock airbox).

Back when I was looking at what was needed to achieve a high hp NA, I was looking at 1.75" piping on the intake and exhaust with very short intake runners (4"-6", the kind of thing you see on Hondas) and short exhaust runners (20") into a collector, good sized resonator, and full 3" high flow exhaust. Mind you this was a build geared for a peak torque up around 7k rpm, an 8.5k redline, E85, 16:1 pistons(remember, big cams and a lot of overlap drop dynamic compression), and the idea of hitting 300chp. On pump gas, you'll be good to see 200whp(~260chp). E85 allows more output plus a lot higher compression which will bump up power moderate. It could technically get you to 300chp. The TWE Stage III cams are also a good fit for this setup with plenty long duration.

There's a program called Engine Analyzer Pro that you can use for free for 10 days before it locks itself until you pay. No, you can't simply uninstall and reinstall to make it work again. As far as I've found, you pretty much have to reinstall Windows to wipe what it uses as an indicator. You can however use older versions, so you can run 3.9 for 10 days, 3.5 for 10 days, and any other older versions you find. You can technically make a second, small partition on your harddrive for a dedicated fresh copy of windows you can keep reinstalling just to let you use the program for longer, but that's quite a hassle. Just be clear that once 10 days are up, you're done using it, period.

Go to Downloads and download the program.
http://performancetrends.com/Engine-Analyzer-Pro.htm

Play with the software and get an idea of what you need to do to the car to achieve your goals. Note, the parameters you pick will influence your goals, so the quality of the results is completely dependent on the accuracy of your parameters. This is also of course an estimation, so accuracy is meh, but it will point you to the general ballpark settings you're aiming for and confirm or deny certain upgrade ideas. I would still discuss the ideas with a pro builder once you get the general ballpark build nailed down, and they can guide you to a realistic ideal in the end that might not blow up in your face.

I will note there are also a lot of tech articles on the web and engine design books covering a lot of the basics that will also point you to particle build choices.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:06 PM   #15
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I spent time thinking about this same as you. I want to tell you what I came up with at the end of the day.

2.5L NA builds are what I would call scientific curiosity builds. By scientific curiosity I mean they really aren't an ideal approach but rather done just to see how far you could get with that platform. You spend a LOT of money for medium results.

Here's the problem. You can take a very old and very cheap EG33 engine and make 300chp pretty easy. EFI did this already just boring it to 3.5" and just doing cams and headwork. They made 315whp pretty easy simply through displacement. The base EG33 is cheap as dirt and has long been proven as bullet proof. People have turbo and supercharged these engines up to around 1000hp without failure. The downside of this engine is weight, however the power to weight ratio still sees gains. You will end up with a more front heavy car though.

If weight was a big issue, you would instead turbo for power. It's easy enough and cheap enough to grab a now very old and cheap EJ20 and plop it into a RS chassis. Even old WRXs as a whole are not that expensive to get into anymore. You will still have cable throttle which is more responsive than the newer drive by wire, and you will produce more torque and more hp than you ever could with your NA. The TD04 is completely transparent in power delivery and will reach your strung out race built NA levels completely stock which a huge amount of headroom beyond that.

Both of these routes will be cheaper than what you're planning, and both of these routes will provide you more torque and hp than you can ever achieve.

The big downside to the 2.5L NA is there are simply better options out there. If we didn't have the H6 engines, if we didn't have any turbo versions, we would see a lot of heavily modified NAs in the Subaru world just like we see in Honda. It would be natural because that would be all there was outside of full aftermarket upgrades. However, there are a lot of stock, specifically cheap stock, items out there that will provide a better base and higher numbers than what you'll get with the 2.5L NA for the cost. This is why it's mostly a scientific curiosity, something done by a guy who has $10k burning a hole in his pocket and wants to do something unique that really hasn't been done before. The results are unknown too, so really it's somewhat of a crap shoot. This isn't to say there haven't already been race groups building high hp EJ25s. There likely have, but we don't really hear about it, and they don't really share their builds.

The short of it all is the 2.5L NA is good for 200whp if heavily modified for high rpm efficiency when running on pump gas. If you run E85 or C16, you'll get that higher and end up around 250whp. This is quite good for a 2.5L with a pile of drivetrain loss, but it gets very sad when you compare that to the H6s or EJ20 turbos you can drop and make that power super easy without much cost.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:30 AM   #16
Clutch Dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scampbell2x View Post
any updates?
haha no updates yet, I have installed the TWE HO EL Headers, an a 2.5 exhaust, put the extrude honed intake on the car with TWE's ported throttlebody, and even managed to wedge Grimspeeds spacers in there, i got a few CEL's im working through, IAC idle set too high, IAC malfunction, and secondary cat efficency too low.


Im not surprised by these but right now I am working on a litle fix before I get it dynoed again, and then going to install a tuner on the car.

I'm still doing work on what kind of cams I want to run.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:40 PM   #17
subaru222
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Thanks for this
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:02 PM   #18
AcquaCow
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and a 2011 WRX hatch...

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What did you do to get the lower radiator hose to not touch the header? I have the HO header but took it off after having to replace the lower rad hose twice... nothing I tried to insulate the two seemed to work. I'm thinking of using a thermostat housing from a Tribeca to see if I can get it to route around the header primary.

Thanks,

-- Dave
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:03 AM   #19
scampbell2x
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what kind of ems are you planning on? i'm thinking of grabbing one of these....
http://www.motionlabtuning.com/store...9-01-2.5rs-ecu
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:52 PM   #20
Clutch Dog
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That's the stuck part Im at right now. I have no idea where to start for tuning. it'll need to be full ecu not a piggy back

and dave, i havent had that problem with the hose yet. but i'll take a look at it this weekend. might try to reroute the hose a little or something. my headers are coated though, it make a difference it i put a shroud up there too.
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Old 01-11-2014, 12:21 PM   #21
subaru222
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:01 PM   #22
Clutch Dog
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that's only a reflash, thanks for the link though. they where teh first people I *tried* to contact.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:06 PM   #23
scampbell2x
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schmilver

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I got the stage 3 reflash and I'm running pretty rich still.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:56 PM   #24
AcquaCow
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2000 RS, 2001 RSTi,
and a 2011 WRX hatch...

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I have the older crawford/i-speed SRS-30 reflash... Been wanting to swap it out for one of the Delicious Tuning ones since my build didn't get as aggressive as I expected to go (Factory short block, cammed/ported heads, TWE 4-2-1 HO header).

I've dialed it back to stock header for now to get more low-end back into the car, even went back to stock cat section vs my HFC.

Exhaust tips show that it's not very lean and recent tear down showed the same, but the folks at Delicious told me that with my mild cams, there are better maps available.

-- Dave
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:36 PM   #25
Clutch Dog
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So basically what i am reading is that unless they can tune specifically for my car it's better off getting a full aftermarket ecu. which isnt a bad place to be. have anyone else done a dyno with their mods? I am going to call the guys at MaxRPM to get her dynoed again with all the bolt ons i have now
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