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Old 10-31-2013, 09:12 PM   #201
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This thread is full of wishful thinking. Subaru had offered a manual non-lifted awd turbo-wagon in the US of A total of only FOUR years since mid-1980s (I might be missing a few others in the early 80s): 1987-89 GL- 10 Turbo Wagon, and 2005 Legacy GT. That's freaking it. If there's a combination of FA20DIT + a decent MT - I'm buying it, but I'd estimate a probability of that happening somewhere around 0.13478932%
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:25 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
Maybe if you grovel.
Hah! I see what you did there
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:58 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Radeon View Post
This thread is full of wishful thinking. Subaru had offered a manual non-lifted awd turbo-wagon in the US of A total of only FOUR years since mid-1980s (I might be missing a few others in the early 80s): 1987-89 GL- 10 Turbo Wagon, and 2005 Legacy GT. That's freaking it. If there's a combination of FA20DIT + a decent MT - I'm buying it, but I'd estimate a probability of that happening somewhere around 0.13478932%
Hmm. You're forgetting the, uh, WRX. 02-present, counting the hatch (which I would have settled for.)

But yea, it really would be my luck that they finally discontinue something that's been going good for 12 years, just as they are shaping it into something I would buy and I am finally in the market for it.
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:39 PM   #204
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hatch = not a wagon. And just in case: Forester/Outback are/were _lifted_ wagons with somewhat compromised handling. Sure, one can get a used manual Outback XT and yank sub-frame spacers and call it good (or lower the crap out of Forester XT), but that's too much work.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:16 AM   #205
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Oh boy, here we go again. It's like the reveal of the '08 WRX all over again with the hatch vs. wagon debate. Since we've been through this once already I'll let you know how it is going to go:

Wagon lovers: "wagon is moar bettar, moar space = bettar utility"
Hatch lovers: "hatch is moar bettar, shortar overhangs = bettar performance"
Sedan lovers: "sedan is moar bettar, it looks better"
Wagon and Hatch lovers: "shut up, no one was talking to you, you get what you want anyway"
coupe & 3-door lovers: "can we haz some luv plz"
Everyone else : "NO, it's a niche market that Subaru isn't interested in"

rinse and repeat for about three pages.

Did I miss anything
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:47 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by _mo_ View Post
Oh boy, here we go again. It's like the reveal of the '08 WRX all over again with the hatch vs. wagon debate. Since we've been through this once already I'll let you know how it is going to go:

Wagon lovers: "wagon is moar bettar, moar space = bettar utility"
Hatch lovers: "hatch is moar bettar, shortar overhangs = bettar performance"
Sedan lovers: "sedan is moar bettar, it looks better"
Wagon and Hatch lovers: "shut up, no one was talking to you, you get what you want anyway"
coupe & 3-door lovers: "can we haz some luv plz"
Everyone else : "NO, it's a niche market that Subaru isn't interested in"

rinse and repeat for about three pages.

Did I miss anything
Yes:

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Old 11-01-2013, 08:26 AM   #207
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hatch = not a wagon. And just in case: Forester/Outback are/were _lifted_ wagons with somewhat compromised handling. Sure, one can get a used manual Outback XT and yank sub-frame spacers and call it good (or lower the crap out of Forester XT), but that's too much work.
Understood, but 02-07 WRX was a wagon, exact same formula as Levorg. And I think it's fair to count the 08+ hatch into that pool.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:19 AM   #208
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Understood, but 02-07 WRX was a wagon, exact same formula as Levorg. And I think it's fair to count the 08+ hatch into that pool.
I don't. It wouldn't be fair to compare 08+ hatch to 05-09 Legacy wagon, since the latter is the larger car. But take 95-99 Legacy wagon, and even that one has like 11"+ longer cargo space. I've had wagons before, I have 08+ hatch. It's not a wagon.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:29 AM   #209
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I've had wagons before, I have 08+ hatch. It's not a wagon.
Right, it's not a wagon. I'll re-word what I said.. I think it's fair to count the 08+ hatch into my pool.

A wagon is better for me, but I weight a hatch vs. a wagon pretty similarly against my needs.

Back to your original point, I do think the odds are against this thing coming with a manual (or at all) but it is Subaru we're talking about. There's definitely a chance.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:20 PM   #210
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Understood, but 02-07 WRX was a wagon, exact same formula as Levorg. And I think it's fair to count the 08+ hatch into that pool.
Yup. I consider my '07 FXT to be a wagon also, others may not agree but IDGAF.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:21 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Radeon View Post
This thread is full of wishful thinking. Subaru had offered a manual non-lifted awd turbo-wagon in the US of A total of only FOUR years since mid-1980s (I might be missing a few others in the early 80s): 1987-89 GL- 10 Turbo Wagon, and 2005 Legacy GT. That's freaking it. If there's a combination of FA20DIT + a decent MT - I'm buying it, but I'd estimate a probability of that happening somewhere around 0.13478932%
If you don't think the 02-07 Impreza wagons (including the WRX Wagon, of which Subaru sold a fair number) are wagons, you're going to have to accept that your definition of "wagon" isn't one most people here subscribe to.





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Last edited by Coati; 11-01-2013 at 12:45 PM. Reason: double negative
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:23 PM   #212
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Yup. I consider my '07 FXT to be a wagon also, others may not agree but IDGAF.
You're not alone. I considered my 08 FSXT a wagon. 09-12 Forester, not so much. 13+ Forester, hell naw.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:32 PM   #213
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The pre-08's impreza/wrx are wagons and 08+ are hatches. In terms of cargo dimensions, the wagons are longer and the hatches are wider due to multi-link vs. Mac-struts. That said, the Levorg would be the best of both worlds.

Pre-09 Foresters are lifted wagon-esque, where as the 09+ are CUV's.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:24 PM   #214
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If you don't think the 02-07 Impreza wagons (including the WRX Wagon, of which Subaru sold a fair number) are wagons, you're going to have to accept that your definition of "wagon" isn't one most people here subscribe to.
02-07 WRX with a liftgate is a LOT closer to 08+ hatch in cargo dimensions than to even 90-99 Legacy Wagon. What I consider a wagon - has at least ~70" of flat cargo space with rear seats folded. 02-07 "Wagon" : 59.5", 08-11 hatch 56", MY12+ impreza Hatch: 61.5.
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:12 PM   #215
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Latest rumors: 1.6 DIT 170ps? 2.0 DIT 300ps?

Ok it's written in dutch, but Google Translate can help:

http://subarublog.wordpress.com/2013...ste-nieuwtjes/
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:47 PM   #216
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Latest rumors: 1.6 DIT 170ps? 2.0 DIT 300ps?

Ok it's written in dutch, but Google Translate can help:

http://subarublog.wordpress.com/2013...ste-nieuwtjes/
If the 2.0 Levorg gets 300 PS, then I bet the WRX will as well. The WRX STI? Could get interesting.

This 40mpg US for the 1.6 would likely be around 35 EPA highway, so that would be reasonable. I'll bet that the 1.6 DIT will be the standard Subaru engine across the board in a few years.

184 inches is a bit longer than the Impreza sedan, too. Maybe it's just the wagon, but maybe the WRX will be longer.
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:34 PM   #217
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It would show a considerable amount of faith in Subaru's own engineering if they gave the Levorg/WRX 300 and the STI significantly more. I would love for it to be close to 400 just to shake up the game substantially.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:21 PM   #218
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It would show a considerable amount of faith in Subaru's own engineering if they gave the Levorg/WRX 300 and the STI significantly more. I would love for it to be close to 400 just to shake up the game substantially.
400, wow that would destroy a ton of larger displacement cars. However, 330 is a more likely scenario. 350 would be pushing it for Subaru.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:23 PM   #219
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I say keep the outputs identical to what we have now, but make the torque curve flat and vast, OH and give them a 25% improvement in mpg. THe cars do not need more HP, they are already fast as hell. THey need better efficiency and less weight.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:22 PM   #220
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I say keep the outputs identical to what we have now, but make the torque curve flat and vast, OH and give them a 25% improvement in mpg. THe cars do not need more HP, they are already fast as hell. THey need better efficiency and less weight.
Indeed.
I'd trade some peak HP from either of my cars for better throttle response and a few more MPGs.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:26 PM   #221
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400, wow that would destroy a ton of larger displacement cars. However, 330 is a more likely scenario. 350 would be pushing it for Subaru.
No I agree. I was just thinking that for people to think 300 would be on the Levorg/WRX, then the STI would have to be something amazing. Therefore I think Levorg/WRX will stick close to 260-275 while STI gets about what you're thinking, between 320-340. I think Subaru could get away with a less upscale interior if the STI's power was up.

Regardless, I'm spouting this all in the wrong thread. I would like to know more about possible potential for this FA16DIT motor. Doesn't it seem under-powered for a wagon of this size? FA16DIT sounds more like a Crosstrek Sport or Impreza GT type of designation.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:07 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post

Regardless, I'm spouting this all in the wrong thread. I would like to know more about possible potential for this FA16DIT motor. Doesn't it seem under-powered for a wagon of this size? FA16DIT sounds more like a Crosstrek Sport or Impreza GT type of designation.
If the rumors of the FA16DIT making 170ps are true, we may not see that motor here. That puts it in competition with the FB25. I was hoping it would make at least 200 hp so it can be a replacement for the FA20.
I don't think I saw the wheel base dimensions yet. Is that info available?
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:50 PM   #223
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If the rumors of the FA16DIT making 170ps are true, we may not see that motor here. That puts it in competition with the FB25. I was hoping it would make at least 200 hp so it can be a replacement for the FA20.
I don't think I saw the wheel base dimensions yet. Is that info available?
There's no info on wheelbase. Overlaying the silhouette, it's very close to the Impreza sedan.

I think the 1.6 will just replace all of the low end engines in the lineup eventually.

And now I really think the Levorg will come to the US next year as the rumored new premium model. But I'm afraid the 1.6 will be priced like a WRX and the 2.0 will be priced like an STI A manual trans is starting to feel really unlikely too
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:12 PM   #224
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Levorg.org/orgy!
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:54 PM   #225
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