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Old 11-27-2013, 03:20 PM   #1
Aladeenster
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Default How much power you pushing? 20g owners only.

For people with 20g turbos, how much power are you pushing at what psi? And what is your inlet size? Also what supporting mods do you have. Curious to hear.

I will be installing aquamist hfs-3 and running 50/50 meth water with my blouch 20gxt. Hoping to hit around 400whp. Is it possible?

Supporting mods:
Headers
Intake
Built short block
Port n polish heads
Fmic
Turbo back exhaust
Tgv deletes
External wastegate
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:14 PM   #2
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check out xluben, hees done a ****load of stuff with a 20g turbo on a 2.5. His contributions to the community are insane. I learned a lot from his threads over the past 2 years.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroBroBroBroBro View Post
check out xluben, hees done a ****load of stuff with a 20g turbo on a 2.5. His contributions to the community are insane. I learned a lot from his threads over the past 2 years.
Thank you, just curious about all the others guys here running 20g's if they want to chime in also.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladeenster View Post
Thank you, just curious about all the others guys here running 20g's if they want to chime in also.
if you run like 25 psi you can prob make your numbers on some high reading dyno.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:31 PM   #5
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It's a 400whp turbo if you're curious. There isn't that much question about that since there's a pile of dyno results in this forum section saying so. I'm not really sure why this thread exists honestly. The data is already there for you in huge quantities. In mere seconds you can confirm or deny which turbo repeatedly hits the 400whp mark over and over with many different cars. The 20G is a good size to just get up to that mark. A GT30 based turbo will also get there and can offer more. This really shouldn't be a surprise. Now you're new to this site, so you haven't had much time to look around, but I do suggest you do. Spend a little time looking through threads, comparing build methods, and seeing results. The answers should become clear.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:40 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
It's a 400whp turbo if you're curious. There isn't that much question about that since there's a pile of dyno results in this forum section saying so. I'm not really sure why this thread exists honestly. The data is already there for you in huge quantities. In mere seconds you can confirm or deny which turbo repeatedly hits the 400whp mark over and over with many different cars. The 20G is a good size to just get up to that mark. A GT30 based turbo will also get there and can offer more. This really shouldn't be a surprise. Now you're new to this site, so you haven't had much time to look around, but I do suggest you do. Spend a little time looking through threads, comparing build methods, and seeing results. The answers should become clear.
I guess you did not read what my post said. It says "for those of you running 20g turbos, what power have you seen and with what type of supporting modifications". So since you're new to comprehending, maybe you should go to some forum that specializes in understanding English. Thanks for your post doe. Greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:57 PM   #7
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A simple search for 20g in this forum yields some 400+hp results:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2226823
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1915558
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2338819
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2188092
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2267948

Even lists their supporting mods, answering your questions...

The lesser-built threads all show about 380...

-- Dave
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:59 PM   #8
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Thank you, I must be pretty bad at searching or searching key words. But thank you for the links. Very helpful, Dave.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladeenster View Post
Thank you, I must be pretty bad at searching or searching key words. But thank you for the links. Very helpful, Dave.
I just searched for "20G" in thread titles only... I'm sure you could find more searching entire posts, but I was in a hurry.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by AcquaCow View Post
I just searched for "20G" in thread titles only... I'm sure you could find more searching entire posts, but I was in a hurry.
I'm on my phone app. It doesn't work too great.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladeenster View Post
I guess you did not read what my post said. It says "for those of you running 20g turbos, what power have you seen and with what type of supporting modifications". So since you're new to comprehending, maybe you should go to some forum that specializes in understanding English. Thanks for your post doe. Greatly appreciated.
you went from zero to douchebag in response to one fairly reasonable post. Well played!
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:25 PM   #12
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i knew this was gonna happen....honestly dont mind it. typical responses for a pretty general thread.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:31 PM   #13
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you went from zero to douchebag in response to one fairly reasonable post. Well played!
Thanks for chiming in
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Aladeenster View Post
Thanks for chiming in
You better learn to get over it here. The %age of helpful people is extremely low. People would rather rag on you for not searching and make a huge stink instead of posting a helpful response. Which is just as easy as being a search douche.

Not to say that you can't find all the info easily by searching and avoiding this crap altogether. This platform isn't new. All your questions have been answered.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:42 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
You better learn to get over it here. The %age of helpful people is extremely low. People would rather rag on you for not searching and make a huge stink instead of posting a helpful response. Which is just as easy as being a search douche. Not to say that you can't find all the info easily by searching and avoiding this crap altogether. This platform isn't new. All your questions have been answered.
Thanks professor Xavier.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Aladeenster View Post
I guess you did not read what my post said. It says "for those of you running 20g turbos, what power have you seen and with what type of supporting modifications". So since you're new to comprehending, maybe you should go to some forum that specializes in understanding English. Thanks for your post doe. Greatly appreciated.
No, I read beyond the face value. You purchased a 20GTX and are concerned if it will hit 400whp. You want people to come in here and appease your concerns with stories of grandeur running their 20GTXs and making a billion hp with ease and no mods.

The reality is pretty simple though. There is no magic. Also, many people making significant power tends to show it off meaning most everyone that will reply and show their amazing dyno graphs and builds will already have a thread made showing exactly that. The information is already here available to you with the click of a few key strokes. This thread is just being lazy. I say this because there is SO MUCH information already there and so many people running and showing off their 20G builds. Yet, despite all that information already shared open to your viewing wonder you make a thread to have said people come to you to repeat the same information with no effort on your part. This is laziness.

Now I'd feel different if the data was hard to find, say you asking about some obscure turbo or strang build that no one's ever done or has done but simply has not presented measurable info. A simple example would be supercharger builds. That's pretty rare. That's harder to find and may warrant some input by people, YET that's also already been asked by others and responded by members. That too would be simple repetition of data that already exists.

I'm not trying to be cynical here, however a PILE of people run 20Gs and have a sea of 20G builds and dyno results. You starting a thread is a bit redundant and forces other people to respond to you and repeat themselves.

The answer for you lies in simple science. A 20G is a 47 lb/min (680 cfm) turbo. On a general level, you're looking at around 1.45 cfm/hp produced, so 680 cfm means about 470hp. Now this is crank hp, so there's some lost through the drivetrain, typically 60-70ish range for hp loss. There are several turbos around this output level as well as higher. They will produce 400whp on Subarus.

Yes, there are some supporting mods to allow enough fuel and air flow to actually make it all work, but that's all basic stuff and pretty easy to find by searching. There's tons of threads covering all the key concepts.

How about fuel?

Typically people just grab the Walbro 255 lpr bump and call it a day. Well how much HP does it support? Well, a lot of people use this pump so a lot of people have tested this pump. Tests indicate it's north of 500chp for any boost level you'll run. There's a pile of information on the internet. Look if you care.

What about injectors?

Again there's a pile of info online for this including easy to use calculators. 470chp with an 80% duty cycle comes out to around 925cc/min. Depending on the calculator used, this can be higher or lower depending up assumptions the calculator uses. A 1000cc/min injector is a pretty simple buy here and will offer plenty of flow without needing super high duty cycle to achieve it. You could run 850cc/min injectors at 90% duty cycle and achieve similar results. It's just commonly suggested to stay at 80% or below, although you can run higher. Some suggest 90%.

Are there any air flow mods?

Oh yeah, tons.

On a basic sense, once you get up into the 400hp range you do want to start stepping away from the small 2.4" intake. You certainly can't use the stock intake at all at this point, and a high flow 2.4" size starts to become restrictive. A 3" option is advisable but not needed. You will find 20G sized turbos in both sizes, although many will still be 2.4" sized. The 3" size starts to become more common once you're looking at GT30 sized turbos.

The intake manifold isn't exactly the highest flowing piece of hardware, but there's not a lot of great alternatives without paying big bucks. There's been flow testing on a variety of option, so look if you have interest.

You can also look at head work and cams too if you want, but it's not absolutely needed at 400hp. If you're doing 500-600hp, you really need to look at this.

Pre turbo, the exhaust size isn't as big of a deal. Small means fast and can help spool. Upgrades can improve flow though and aid top end hp while sometimes sacrificing low end spool. Mainly you just get rid of the cat in the uppipe and call it a day, but you can certainly do more. You can upgrade the header and uppipe to better products. The bigger part is the rest of the exhaust. The happiest turbo is the one with no exhaust at all, so big is good. 3" is typically, but don't feel bad about oversizing this. Low restriction is typically 115cfm per cubic inch of cross sectional area. This in general is considered "lossless" or of low enough loss that there is low gains for the amount of added cost or weight. Since we're talking a 680 cfm turbo, we're talking a 3" exhaust with nice, mandrel bends, and a high flow muffler that doesn't restrict that kind of flow level. We can certainly up size this some too. Bigger typically means louder though, and there's added weight to the size since it's normally made of steel. The weight's at least low in the car, but it's still a lot of weight. Some opt for titanium, but it's costly.

What about other things?

A lot of people change the boost controllers. The stock one is kind of slow. There's lots of options like Grimmspeed's EBCS that many run. Some run an affordable GM solenoid:
GM boost solenoid for Typhoon, GM Part # 1997152
Pigtails, GM Part # 12102747
Frankly there's tons of options.

Tuning is open source, so there isn't anything you need to do for the ECU.


Now nothing I've said here is hard to find knowledge. It's all rather quite easy to find in minutes. There's no magic, nothing new, nothing that hasn't already been said or shared. There's a pile of dyno results and build lists for a pile of cars running 20Gs and GT30s that will meet what you seek. They list parts upgraded and straight forward results. It makes it all a pretty easy to put together, fool-proof route for building a car just because so many people have already done it. All you have to do is look.

I am being slightly cynical actually but mostly because this is more a results forum section, not a section of inquiry, although it's done from time to time. This is more a "hey, here's my results" section. It's like going to a museum and asking how to paint.

Last edited by Back Road Runner; 11-27-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:20 PM   #17
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bazinga ^
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:24 PM   #18
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E85 would greatly help. I know you mentioned the 50/50 Meth but if you have access to E85 it makes it all the easier. I know Cali has some good access to E85.
There is one station in Spokane. (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_locations.html)
Grocery Boys
3430 N Crestline
Spokane, WA 99207

Also the dyno databases will give you a great idea of some ranges but tuning, mods, and the dyno make a huge difference. Damn the heartbreaker!
http://www.cobbtuning.com/Dyno-Database-s/70119.htm

To all others who tell a newbie (who joined in November 2013!) not to be lazy& stupid for not using search shame on you for such a poor welcome of new people to the boards. Share your knowledge on how to search rather than rude remarks. It is what I truly hate about this forum. The holier than thou attitude and people wonder why someone snaps back. Answer the man, be helpful, or shut up.
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:03 AM   #19
Aladeenster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
No, I read beyond the face value. You purchased a 20GTX and are concerned if it will hit 400whp. You want people to come in here and appease your concerns with stories of grandeur running their 20GTXs and making a billion hp with ease and no mods. The reality is pretty simple though. There is no magic. Also, many people making significant power tends to show it off meaning most everyone that will reply and show their amazing dyno graphs and builds will already have a thread made showing exactly that. The information is already here available to you with the click of a few key strokes. This thread is just being lazy. I say this because there is SO MUCH information already there and so many people running and showing off their 20G builds. Yet, despite all that information already shared open to your viewing wonder you make a thread to have said people come to you to repeat the same information with no effort on your part. This is laziness. Now I'd feel different if the data was hard to find, say you asking about some obscure turbo or strang build that no one's ever done or has done but simply has not presented measurable info. A simple example would be supercharger builds. That's pretty rare. That's harder to find and may warrant some input by people, YET that's also already been asked by others and responded by members. That too would be simple repetition of data that already exists. I'm not trying to be cynical here, however a PILE of people run 20Gs and have a sea of 20G builds and dyno results. You starting a thread is a bit redundant and forces other people to respond to you and repeat themselves. The answer for you lies in simple science. A 20G is a 47 lb/min (680 cfm) turbo. On a general level, you're looking at around 1.45 cfm/hp produced, so 680 cfm means about 470hp. Now this is crank hp, so there's some lost through the drivetrain, typically 60-70ish range for hp loss. There are several turbos around this output level as well as higher. They will produce 400whp on Subarus. Yes, there are some supporting mods to allow enough fuel and air flow to actually make it all work, but that's all basic stuff and pretty easy to find by searching. There's tons of threads covering all the key concepts. How about fuel? Typically people just grab the Walbro 255 lpr bump and call it a day. Well how much HP does it support? Well, a lot of people use this pump so a lot of people have tested this pump. Tests indicate it's north of 500chp for any boost level you'll run. There's a pile of information on the internet. Look if you care. What about injectors? Again there's a pile of info online for this including easy to use calculators. 470chp with an 80% duty cycle comes out to around 925cc/min. Depending on the calculator used, this can be higher or lower depending up assumptions the calculator uses. A 1000cc/min injector is a pretty simple buy here and will offer plenty of flow without needing super high duty cycle to achieve it. You could run 850cc/min injectors at 90% duty cycle and achieve similar results. It's just commonly suggested to stay at 80% or below, although you can run higher. Some suggest 90%. Are there any air flow mods? Oh yeah, tons. On a basic sense, once you get up into the 400hp range you do want to start stepping away from the small 2.4" intake. You certainly can't use the stock intake at all at this point, and a high flow 2.4" size starts to become restrictive. A 3" option is advisable but not needed. You will find 20G sized turbos in both sizes, although many will still be 2.4" sized. The 3" size starts to become more common once you're looking at GT30 sized turbos. The intake manifold isn't exactly the highest flowing piece of hardware, but there's not a lot of great alternatives without paying big bucks. There's been flow testing on a variety of option, so look if you have interest. You can also look at head work and cams too if you want, but it's not absolutely needed at 400hp. If you're doing 500-600hp, you really need to look at this. Pre turbo, the exhaust size isn't as big of a deal. Small means fast and can help spool. Upgrades can improve flow though and aid top end hp while sometimes sacrificing low end spool. Mainly you just get rid of the cat in the uppipe and call it a day, but you can certainly do more. You can upgrade the header and uppipe to better products. The bigger part is the rest of the exhaust. The happiest turbo is the one with no exhaust at all, so big is good. 3" is typically, but don't feel bad about oversizing this. Low restriction is typically 115cfm per cubic inch of cross sectional area. This in general is considered "lossless" or of low enough loss that there is low gains for the amount of added cost or weight. Since we're talking a 680 cfm turbo, we're talking a 3" exhaust with nice, mandrel bends, and a high flow muffler that doesn't restrict that kind of flow level. We can certainly up size this some too. Bigger typically means louder though, and there's added weight to the size since it's normally made of steel. The weight's at least low in the car, but it's still a lot of weight. Some opt for titanium, but it's costly. What about other things? A lot of people change the boost controllers. The stock one is kind of slow. There's lots of options like Grimmspeed's EBCS that many run. Some run an affordable GM solenoid: GM boost solenoid for Typhoon, GM Part # 1997152 Pigtails, GM Part # 12102747 Frankly there's tons of options. Tuning is open source, so there isn't anything you need to do for the ECU. Now nothing I've said here is hard to find knowledge. It's all rather quite easy to find in minutes. There's no magic, nothing new, nothing that hasn't already been said or shared. There's a pile of dyno results and build lists for a pile of cars running 20Gs and GT30s that will meet what you seek. They list parts upgraded and straight forward results. It makes it all a pretty easy to put together, fool-proof route for building a car just because so many people have already done it. All you have to do is look. I am being slightly cynical actually but mostly because this is more a results forum section, not a section of inquiry, although it's done from time to time. This is more a "hey, here's my results" section. It's like going to a museum and asking how to paint.
I'm not concerned whether it will hit 400whp or not. I just stated it was my goal. If I it hit then great, if not then I don't care. Thanks for the ramble, I didn't bother reading past the third line because it's clear you don't know how to answer to the initial post. Thanks for your help though, fruitcake.
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weemus View Post
E85 would greatly help. I know you mentioned the 50/50 Meth but if you have access to E85 it makes it all the easier. I know Cali has some good access to E85. There is one station in Spokane. (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_locations.html) Grocery Boys 3430 N Crestline Spokane, WA 99207 Also the dyno databases will give you a great idea of some ranges but tuning, mods, and the dyno make a huge difference. Damn the heartbreaker! http://www.cobbtuning.com/Dyno-Database-s/70119.htm To all others who tell a newbie (who joined in November 2013!) not to be lazy& stupid for not using search shame on you for such a poor welcome of new people to the boards. Share your knowledge on how to search rather than rude remarks. It is what I truly hate about this forum. The holier than thou attitude and people wonder why someone snaps back. Answer the man, be helpful, or shut up.
Thank you very much for your post. I appreciate it 110% and I wish more people on this forum were like you instead of the ignorant a-holes they are.
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:33 AM   #21
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You can lead a horse to water...
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
You can lead a horse to water...
Lol wow. You really went out of your way giving solid information and dude ignored it.

Wants to call names at others for giving relevant info, doesnt want to put in the work to really learn anything.

These are the same people that believe their 200 dollar home theater system actually puts out 1000 watts of power because it says so on the box.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladeenster View Post
I'm not concerned whether it will hit 400whp or not. I just stated it was my goal. If I it hit then great, if not then I don't care. Thanks for the ramble, I didn't bother reading past the third line because it's clear you don't know how to answer to the initial post. Thanks for your help though, fruitcake.
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:06 AM   #24
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Good one, homo
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:21 AM   #25
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Canadians still use homo as an insult? Probably uses myspace and AOL too.
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