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Old 12-04-2013, 12:36 PM   #1
ShadowWRX13
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Default turbo opinion based on my build

So I have an 04 wrx. My mod list include cobb intake, invidia catless downpipe, turbo xs catback, catless uppipe, ported manifolds, and grimmspeed crossoverpipe. (I also have upgraded shift bushings and poly differential mounts) I plan on going with 650 cc injectors, a turbo inlet hose, and I already have my walbro 255 fuel pump. I am stuck between what I should do as far as the turbo goes. Originally I had planned on modifying my TD04 but now I'm thinking of going vf34 or vf35. I like the vf34 because it is a ball bearing turbo but I keep reading conflicting posts about the two turbos. Some say one the 34 spools faster and has lower top end power and vise versa. What do you guys think? I'm looking for lower spool time because I cant stand lag. I used to have a supercharged car so I'm leaning more towards the lower spool.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:39 PM   #2
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Go with a VF34 if you like fast spool. They are ball bearing, and known to be awesome turbos. It might be hard finding one in good condition for a good price. They are getting pretty old, but if you get a nice one, run it!
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:43 PM   #3
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Thanks for the fast response. That's the one I was leaning towards but I started getting confused when I found conflicting information about the 2 of them.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:43 PM   #4
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The amount of turbos that will spool faster than what you have: 0
Turbos spool based on wheel size, tuner tricks, and supporting modifications. If you have exactly the same turbos like a VF30 (journal bearing) and a VF34 (ball bearing), there should, in theory, be a little spool gain by the 34, but in practical application...that gain is lost in the real world though there will be a gain in throttle response. You needs to read the post titled Turbo FAQ and ramp up your knowledge base on turbos in general. If no lag is your goal, get a ported and polished stock turbo and a hot tune from a great tuner and that is your best bet.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:48 PM   #5
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The VF34 is a bigger turbo, but the ball bearing offsets that. From my experience going from a TD04 to a T518z to an 18g-xt, bigger (up to a point) is where it's at. The VF34 is at the sweet spot in size for an EJ20, and ball bearing turbos simply have a much quicker hit than journal bearing.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:44 PM   #6
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is there a way to make a journal bearing turbo into a ball bearing? if so could I'd do that to a td04 and then port it out. Sorry for the weird questions. turbos are new to me and the 18g so on and so forth is still confusing.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:54 PM   #7
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This should help if you know zilch about turbos. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1265801
Bigger turbo= lag plain and simple. Turbo car will always have lag. I have a deadbolt 18g with blouch guts in it. I have full spool, 23.8psi at 3600 and pull to 7500 and 10psi at almost any rpm gears 1-5. I love the lag because I know I have full power to redline and it doesn't run out of breath. And 10psi is nice for just dicking around town, it has enough pep.

Sounds like you want to go fast through the mean streets of upper and middle township and stay away from the parkway. I'd avoid route 9 too
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowWRX13 View Post
is there a way to make a journal bearing turbo into a ball bearing? if so could I'd do that to a td04 and then port it out. Sorry for the weird questions. turbos are new to me and the 18g so on and so forth is still confusing.
There may be a way, but no one here would waste their time to do that on a TD04. The spool is already close to the limit of how quick spool can get. Any difference would be nearly imperceivable. Forget what you think you know about spool, because it's wrong if you think you can improve spool over a stock TD04.
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:41 PM   #9
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with the td04 what is the difference between the 19T and someone changing to a 16g compressor? or are they the same? I am going to be getting tuned obviously when I throw all of this in. Also I have an electronic boost controller for it for when I get tuned. would a ported td04 with a bigger housing be close to a vf34 then or will the differences be minimal?
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:59 PM   #10
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The TD04's exhaust housing is its major shortcoming. Putting a bigger compressor on it isn't going to help a whole lot unless you want boost response similar to a turbo diesel. You'll have tons of torque down low, but it will still fall flat in the mid range, and still useless on the top end.
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:03 PM   #11
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So basically if I still want decent low end and not too bad of a spool time with decent top end the vf34 is pretty much what I'm looking for.
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowWRX13 View Post
So basically if I still want decent low end and not too bad of a spool time with decent top end the vf34 is pretty much what I'm looking for.
Pretty much any vf series.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:48 PM   #13
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GET damn VF34 and ball bearing out of your brain. READ the Turbo FAQ. You keeping saying 34/ball bearing like its a magic pill to no lag and it is NOT. I have a ball bearing turbo and I don't hit full boost until like 4000 RPM because it is a big whore for a 2.0L motor. Where they shine is response as mid-RPM the boost gauge moves like a damned manual boost controller is on it.

You jimmies are rustled for more power....I get it. But you needs to slow down and pick up the phone before you buy something awful. Tuner. Blouch Turbo. Those are the two phone calls you need to make. Not email. Not message. Not anything but you, a phone, some soothing tea, and a pen and paper to take notes.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
GET damn VF34 and ball bearing out of your brain. READ the Turbo FAQ. You keeping saying 34/ball bearing like its a magic pill to no lag and it is NOT. I have a ball bearing turbo and I don't hit full boost until like 4000 RPM because it is a big whore for a 2.0L motor. Where they shine is response as mid-RPM the boost gauge moves like a damned manual boost controller is on it.

You jimmies are rustled for more power....I get it. But you needs to slow down and pick up the phone before you buy something awful. Tuner. Blouch Turbo. Those are the two phone calls you need to make. Not email. Not message. Not anything but you, a phone, some soothing tea, and a pen and paper to take notes.
LOL .. your replies always .... BUT spot on

Dude, you need to decide what you want to achieve with "getting another turbo"

1.) Forget about what people say about Boost LAG this and Boost LAG that ... I have a 20G TD-05 on my 2.0 Litre STI and I start boosting on 3700 rpm.
2.) Decide what power you want.
3.) Decide on finding a "bolt on" turbo, or bigger power with rotate mount.
4.) Depending on the power you are aiming for, you need to look at upgrading your Cooling ( water and oil) and going front mount inter cooler.
5.) DO you have an electronic Boost gauge ?
6.) You have a very good tuner ? Changing the turbo changes the whole way the car performs and run.
7.) How reliable is your engine? Has it been rebuilt with forged internals ?
8.) Stop shopping EBAY turbos, start shopping Blouch, Deadbolt etc
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:23 AM   #15
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I'm in no rush to get the turbo for the car. I'm just trying to get my facts together before i start buying parts. I know I want to get into the 12s in the quarter. I know that I'm not too far off with what I have now. I know that I want to go to a bolt on turbo. I don't need anything crazy. I'm just looking for a moderately bigger turbo that still has some sort of quick spool and will give me better top end. From what I had read the vf34 seemed to fit what I was looking for. I haven't looked at ebay turbos at all. I don't like cheaping out on stuff like this. The boost gauge I have is the one that came from the factory. I do not know if it is electronic but I can use my accessport for exact readings if need be. As far as the tuner goes I need to start looking. My one friend recommends this place in Maryland where he took his STI but I don't want to travel all that way to be out of the car for a week so I'll be looking for someplace in south jersey. The engine has not been rebuilt. It is a factory 2.0L with 116xxx on it. I did the timing belt at 104k and the car has been maintained all of it's life with religious oil changes and proper maintenance and I also had my hand in all of the major parts; doing the timing belt, replacing the clutch, getting the transmission rebuilt, etc (my cousins dad was the original owner)
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:24 PM   #16
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Go to the Tri State forum here and start talking to locals. Stat. I think your friend is talking about IAG which is north of Baltimore and they, or any shop, will not have your call all week. They could install the turbo/injectors in the morning and have it tuned in the afternoon. Yeah, it might be a long day but many of use drive 1-5 hours each way to have work done in that manner...makes for a sucky and tired day but it is doable. If no local love happens, holler at IAG as it isn't super far from you. http://www.iagperformance.com/
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:03 PM   #17
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Yes IAG is who it was I couldn't remember. I just met up with a couple of the local guys last week so i'll definetly be talking to them about local shops that can tune me. I'm probably not getting tuned till after my wedding in January so I'll have plenty of time to research and call around. Also I did what you said and got ball bearing out of my head and looked at a lot of other threads for decent mid range turbos for the 2.0L and I seems the Evo3 16G would be pretty much what I want and is rebuildable and leaves me with more options. Thanks everyone for your input on this.
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowWRX13 View Post
is there a way to make a journal bearing turbo into a ball bearing? if so could I'd do that to a td04 and then port it out. Sorry for the weird questions. turbos are new to me and the 18g so on and so forth is still confusing.
yeah but almost not worth it. just a side note about spool, its not all you need care about. take a 16g it iwll spool slower than a tdo4 but the power offset is worth it. the 16g flows more at the same psi as a smaller turbo.
and the air flow is what makes the power not the psi
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:33 PM   #19
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Lots of good info in this thread. I agree with a number of ideas that have been mentioned.

I browsed through a couple of previous tunes we've done here at the shop with 2.0L upgrades, and generally speaking, VF series turbos are all falling in the range of 3600-3900 RPM for peak torque, and making somewhere in the 270-290 WHP range on what we would consider safe pump-gas boost levels (19ish-22psi peak/tapering up top), depending of course on supporting modifications and a variety of other factors.

16G (and other variations like XT), generally peak torque between 3900-4100 RPM, 280-300WHP.

Stage 2 2.0L cars w/ stock TD04 generally make 210-225 WHP, torque peaking somewhere in the 3200-3400 RPM range.

Stock STI's usually sit somewhere in the 210-225WHP on our dyno, for reference.

Sooo with all that in mind, I agree with questions posed above. What is your ultimate goal? We have customers in the 12's on stock TD04, good supporting mods and solid driving.... Certainly any VF series or 16G turbo with good mods will get you where you want, and sacrifice anywhere between 500-750 RPMS on average to achieve WAY more power...

Hope that all makes sense... Feel free to let us know if we can help with recommendations. FWIW, if I owned a 2.0L at the moment, I'd probably be rocking a Blouch 16G-XT/XT-R. Numerical mumbo jumbo aside, 2.0L + 16G-XT is REALLY fun to drive, and is a relatively easy turbo for supporting mods (injectors, pump, TMIC, boost control, etc. and call it good!)

Regards,

Rick
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:58 PM   #20
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Here's a VF34 for sale...decent price too

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2577234
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:31 PM   #21
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Just like Rick was saying from IAG. VF hits like mad mid range. Love my 2.0l with vf39 around a 3rd gear Track, seems boost is always there and kicking.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowWRX13 View Post
I'm in no rush to get the turbo for the car. I'm just trying to get my facts together before i start buying parts. I know I want to get into the 12s in the quarter. I know that I'm not too far off with what I have now. I know that I want to go to a bolt on turbo. I don't need anything crazy. I'm just looking for a moderately bigger turbo that still has some sort of quick spool and will give me better top end. From what I had read the vf34 seemed to fit what I was looking for. I haven't looked at ebay turbos at all. I don't like cheaping out on stuff like this. The boost gauge I have is the one that came from the factory. I do not know if it is electronic but I can use my accessport for exact readings if need be. As far as the tuner goes I need to start looking. My one friend recommends this place in Maryland where he took his STI but I don't want to travel all that way to be out of the car for a week so I'll be looking for someplace in south jersey. The engine has not been rebuilt. It is a factory 2.0L with 116xxx on it. I did the timing belt at 104k and the car has been maintained all of it's life with religious oil changes and proper maintenance and I also had my hand in all of the major parts; doing the timing belt, replacing the clutch, getting the transmission rebuilt, etc (my cousins dad was the original owner)
Howdy bud

1.) 12 seconds 1/4 mile, vf34 ... maybe JUST ... look at 18G Blouch maybe, or Kunigawa 20G
2.) Look at doing CAI and Turbo inlet pipe as well when you change turbo. Colder air will be needed and the Turbo inlet pipe will assist in faster spooling of turbo.
3.) Remember, as far I know, once you load a map with your access port, you create a "pairing" on your ecu, and only COBB tuning tools will be able to change maps on your ECU from their. SO if you find a tuner that uses ECUTEK or OPEN Source tuning tools, you area little bit stuffed Hope someone can confirm I am wrong or correct.
4.) Best upgrade left for your car is LEARN HOW TO DRIVE IT !!. I have a friend that makes almost 200 WKW on his STI, but still loose 14/ drag races against Audi S3 's etc. .... so sad ..
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:44 AM   #23
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When you swap turbos at first itll almost seem slower without the immediate response. It certainly won't be. You'll have to learn to drive your car different than you have been but once you feel the strong top end you won't remember any of this lag talk.

Once you're off the line and pass the initial lag you'll never be in that area again unless you're slowing down or in the wrong gear.

Mid and top end power is where its at and pulling hard to red line is a very nice feeling indeed.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:18 AM   #24
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so I believe I'm going with the td05-16g and i'll get it ported. seems to be the best course of action for what I'm looking for. Rick, I will be getting in touch with you about the tune probably some time in march. I should have all of my parts by then.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
The amount of turbos that will spool faster than what you have: 0
Turbos spool based on wheel size, tuner tricks, and supporting modifications. If you have exactly the same turbos like a VF30 (journal bearing) and a VF34 (ball bearing), there should, in theory, be a little spool gain by the 34, but in practical application...that gain is lost in the real world though there will be a gain in throttle response. You needs to read the post titled Turbo FAQ and ramp up your knowledge base on turbos in general. If no lag is your goal, get a ported and polished stock turbo and a hot tune from a great tuner and that is your best bet.
^^^Anyone ever ported and polished a vf series turbo and was anything noticed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by superacerc View Post
When you swap turbos at first itll almost seem slower without the immediate response. It certainly won't be. You'll have to learn to drive your car different than you have been but once you feel the strong top end you won't remember any of this lag talk.

Once you're off the line and pass the initial lag you'll never be in that area again unless you're slowing down or in the wrong gear.

Mid and top end power is where its at and pulling hard to red line is a very nice feeling indeed.

^^^^I think you are referring to the "down shift method"
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