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Old 12-17-2012, 07:46 AM   #1
bluesubie
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UOA by Oil Analyzers Inc. for my 2004 Forester XT

Driving conditions: Oil in use January - August 2012. This is my first full uoa after installing the AP which explains the slight increase (?) in fuel. Previously noted fuel levels were estimates, and this one was done by Gas Chromatography. Not sure why they tested fuel differently this time. Maybe they suspected more fuel.

7 mile daily commute each way; spirited driving with a few redlines here and there on days where I have a 20 minute drive. Longer trips on weekends as well as driving on the beach. I ran the oil for about another 1,000 miles after this uoa. 1/2 quart make-up oil added at 1,860 miles into oci and one quart at 3,220 miles into oci (after trip to SC that included more enthusiastic driving ).

Lab comments: Data indicates no abnormal findings. Resample at normal interval

Equipment make: Subaru
Equipment model: 2.5L Turbo
Oil use interval: 5140 miles
Oil type & Grade: Mobil1 0W-40
Make-up oil added: 1.5 Quarts
Miles on unit: 122,140
Air filter: Amsoil Ea panel filter
Oil filter: OEM Honeywell

Overall severity of report = 0 Normal
Code:
 (newest to oldest, left to right) M1 0W-40 SN; Motul X-Lite, PU 5W40, M1 0W40 SM, SSO; SSO
Iron 16 4 8 7 11 11  
Chromium 2 0 0 0 0 0 
Nickel 0 0 0 0 0 0 
Aluminum 4 0 2 0 3 3  
Copper 9 8 8 15 5 6  
Lead 3 1 1 0 10 4  
Tin 0 0 0 0 1 0 
Cadmium 0 0 0 0 1 0 
Silver 0 0 0 0 0 0 
Vanadium 0 0 0 0 0 
Silicon 8 7 7 8 10 11  
Sodium 8 2 10 22 28 90   
Potassium 3 0 0 3 2 2  
Titanium 0 0 0 0 0 0  
Molybdenum 101 4 24 123 2 1  
Antimony 0 0 1 2 0 0  
Manganese 0 0 0 0 4 0   
Lithium 0 0 0 0 3 0
Boron 139 6 117 112 7 7  
Magnesium 17 13 19 30 17 17 
Calcium 3273 3323 2347 2805 3497 3423  
Barium 0 0 0 0 0 0 
Phosphorus 946 984 824 880 654 677 
Zinc 1135 1145 1050 1061 717 755  
Lube chg No 
Filter chg No 
Fuel % .8 (GC) <1 <1 <1 <1 <.5 
Soot <1% <.1%  <.1% <.1% .1% <.1% 
Water <.1 <.1% <.1% <.1% <.1% <.1% Vis @ 100C: 13.2 11.3 12.1 13.2 10.1 9.6 
TBN 5.06 4.93 3.78 1.99 4.35 4.01 
Oxidation 28 47 15 37 43 38 
Nitration 16 26 27 27 32 27
If I didn't get Motul for free with my Subaru cc rewards, I would probably stick with this oil. Actually, probably not since I change my mind once a week. Now running Motul 300V 0W-40.

-Dennis
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:56 AM   #2
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Nice numbers. Thanks for posting.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:51 AM   #3
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Iron seems a bit high, as does the fuel. New tune? The KV100 stayed pretty solid despite the fuel. Having to add makeup oil keeps the TBN really strong, wow.

M1 0w40 seems like great stuff, thanks for posting.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:19 AM   #4
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Wow Thanks for posting.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:49 AM   #5
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I have been using M1 0w-40 for probably 5 about years now. I also have a short commute (10 miles, 8 of it highway) and wondering how my fuel dilution is. I drive less than 7,500 a year so I change my oil every 6 months anyways.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:25 AM   #6
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m1 5w-30 is the crap that dillutes down to water. 0w-40 != 5w-30...
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:53 AM   #7
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The increase in fuel is no doubt from the OTS AP and the make-up oil likely boosted the TBN and KV. I was actually surprised that the viscosity did as well as it did with the fuel and enthusiastic driving in NC.

Interesting that the iron was high on this uoa (which is typical for M1) but it was lower in the old SM version. I suppose I would have to pay more than $23 for a uoa to find out if it's really a problem. Mobil1 had a chance to address the iron issue on the bitog q&a but they didn't. I'm pleased with the results though.

-Dennis
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:00 PM   #8
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The M1 0W40 is a good oil. The only problem is it cost more then the Rotella. I have used the M1 0W40 and liked it. I just can't justify the cost increase over something that is functionally equal.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:45 PM   #9
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True, but it's not THAT much more expensive. I paid $35 for 5 quarts including an oil filter which is still cheaper than one tank of gas! I prefer a thinner oil than RT6 for my short trips (especially for winter). Shell is actually coming out with Rotella T6 0W-40 in the U.S.

http://www.oemoffhighway.com/product...sel-engine-oil
Can't find anything on Shell's web site though.


-Dennis
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
True, but it's not THAT much more expensive. I paid $35 for 5 quarts including an oil filter which is still cheaper than one tank of gas! I prefer a thinner oil than RT6 for my short trips (especially for winter). Shell is actually coming out with Rotella T6 0W-40 in the U.S.

http://www.oemoffhighway.com/product...sel-engine-oil
Can't find anything on Shell's web site though.


-Dennis

meh...throw a qt of the 0w20 afe in the rt6 and ....that'd thin it out a lil
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
meh...throw a qt of the 0w20 afe in the rt6 and ....that'd thin it out a lil
I'll try it once I see it here at Walmart or whatever place that sells it here
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
The increase in fuel is no doubt from the OTS AP and the make-up oil likely boosted the TBN and KV. I was actually surprised that the viscosity did as well as it did with the fuel and enthusiastic driving in NC.

Interesting that the iron was high on this uoa (which is typical for M1) but it was lower in the old SM version. I suppose I would have to pay more than $23 for a uoa to find out if it's really a problem. Mobil1 had a chance to address the iron issue on the bitog q&a but they didn't. I'm pleased with the results though.

-Dennis
I know lots of UOAs on BITOG show high Iron numbers with M1, but I've not seen that in my own apps.

I'll start a new thread for these in a second, but here's the numbers from my dad's 2010 Outback 3.6. M1 0w40 and 0w30 have been used exclusively for the last 30k miles. Nice low Iron numbers except for the first M1 UOA, which was just after some accident repairs so I suspect lots of reallyshort trips into and around the body shop. Oil is labeled on an empty line. 0w30/40 indicates a blend of M1 0w30 and 0w40. The 3.6R has a ~7qt sump IIRC, and my dad hasn't always been able to get enough of the 0w40. Now that he's done a couple of runs with the 0w30, I think we're going to switch to it exclusively. Seems to hold up well, and is a bunch cheaper than the 0w40 when purchased in the 5qt jug at WM. The one quart of make up oil in the 31,687 mi UOA was totally unnecessary and was Pennzoil HM 5w30. The short trip from the hotel to he gas station (~1 block) caused oil to sit in the heads and the dipstick to read unrealistically low. I'm not sure about the make up oil in the next UOA, I'll have to ask my dad.





If I were mixing something with RT6 to thin it out, I would use Pennzoil products, not Mobil, to keep the add pack consistent. Probably Ultra 5w20 or Platinum 0w20.

BTW, what lab are you using?

Last edited by gpshumway; 12-18-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
I know lots of UOAs on BITOG show high Iron numbers with M1, but I've not seen that in my own apps.
I went to look for M1's comment about high iron and the Q&A is no longer there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

If I were mixing something with RT6 to thin it out, I would use Pennzoil products, not Mobil, to keep the add pack consistent. Probably Ultra 5w20 or Platinum 0w20.

BTW, what lab are you using?
Me too! PU or PP FTW!

Oil Analyzer's Inc. (aka Polaris). For $22.45 Non-Postage paid, they include TBN, nitration, oxidation, and antimony reading. No Flashpoint though. I started with them when I tried Amsoil and have stuck with them ever since.

http://oaitesting.com/prices_automotive_fleet.htm

-Dennis
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:56 PM   #14
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I think BITOG is a bit too militant about scrubbing info from non-sponsors. Good info should stick around.

I've decided to switch to OAI as well. Blackstone's latest UOA for my Civic (check BITOG in the next day or so) had exactly the wrong conclusions in the comments. They're officially fired.

I erroneously read OAI's testing regimen and thought they automatically included KV40 as well, turns out that's just for gear oil & ATF. Still, they're cheaper than Blackstone with TBN, and I'll likely get my samples back sooner as well. Superior, WI is pretty close to the Twin Cities.

Any reason you don't do the preferred customer thing and get UOAs for $18? It's worth it for me just on UOAs for myself and my Dad alone. Cheaper air filters and (possibly) oil is just a bonus. I'm disappointed they don't have an air filter for either of the Subarus in my family though.

Motul 300V 0w40 now, huh? You sure don't mind switching often, or spending $$ on oil for that matter. Not that I'm one to talk, I use Redline.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:17 PM   #15
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I just don't want to spend money to get a discount. Since I'm a past preferred customer, I do get 10% off of everything though.

Spending money on oil? Nope!

6 Liters @ $32 per 2 liter can = $96
Shipping = $10
- $100 Subaru bucks

$6.00 balance due



-Dennis
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:04 AM   #16
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So, where do you get all these "Subaru bucks"?

I need a better hookup...
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:00 AM   #17
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http://drive2.subaru.com/Sum08/Sum08_Rewards.htm

You just have to buy oil from a Subaru dealer and you don't want to carry too much of balance since the interest rate isn't great.

-Dennis
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:14 PM   #18
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Since when is Mobil 1 0w-40 more expensive than RT6? I just bought a 5quart jug of M1 0W40 for $27.17 including tax. 5 quarts RT6 would have been about $30.

(Walmart)

Otherwise thanks for the post. Makes me feel better about putting it in my WRX's first change.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildogsubie View Post
Since when is Mobil 1 0w-40 more expensive than RT6? I just bought a 5quart jug of M1 0W40 for $27.17 including tax. 5 quarts RT6 would have been about $30.

(Walmart)

Otherwise thanks for the post. Makes me feel better about putting it in my WRX's first change.
It can depend on sales. I've gotten a gallon of Shell RT 6 for $16. That's when I stock up. I still have 4 gallons left from the last sale.
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:24 PM   #20
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well...time for another oil change soon....used the 0w40 M1 last time....been using the t6 cocktail....gonna go back to the t6 cocktail for summer i think.....

didnt see any mpg change/increase going to the 0w40(ive tracked this for 120k miles)

unless the 0w40 is still real cheap

might use the delo in 5w40 for a change.....meh.....
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:02 AM   #21
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I'm changing mine today. M1 ESP 5w30.

Yea, I know, spendy, low TBN, yada yada. If you're going to experiment, might as well pick something on the frontier of technology. The DI VW/Audi folks claim it's the best for preventing intake deposits. Might be just the thing for owners of new FA20 DIT engines who want something a bit thicker than RC 5w30, though my engine isn't the best test case. We'll see how it holds up, I'm going to run it for at least 6,500 miles, possibly with an intermediate UOA. The one thing I'm worried about is inducing some oil consumption by switching, so far my engine has never required any replenishment in 53k mi.

When we left for grandma's house on Christmas eve it was -19*F here. The car was a bit crabby out on the road with Redline 5w30 in the sump. Turbo responsiveness was slow and the engine makes more growling noises, though I'm not sure I can blame the growling noises on the oil. Still, not quite as good in extreme cold as GC or especially the Redline 0w30. I suspect the RL 5w30 has thickened a bit with 6,000+ miles on it, at least in very cold temps. Nothing to report on starting behavior as it was in the garage and plugged in.
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:09 PM   #22
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ya know...after the first couple thousand miles on the 0w40 when my engine was a bit LOUD....it has subsided and is pretty quiet now....but im going to a more robust oil for summer

and since THERE IS NO REASON AT ALL ON THIS PLANET to use ANY 5w30 oil ever made.....

i will continue to say that anybody who puts ANY 5w30 oil in these cars is an idiot
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Old 12-29-2013, 01:19 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
ya know...after the first couple thousand miles on the 0w40 when my engine was a bit LOUD....it has subsided and is pretty quiet now....but im going to a more robust oil for summer

and since THERE IS NO REASON AT ALL ON THIS PLANET to use ANY 5w30 oil ever made.....

i will continue to say that anybody who puts ANY 5w30 oil in these cars is an idiot
As always I assume you're speaking in the context of a turbo EJ, but even there I have to disagree, there are certain 5w30 oils which have excellent performance characteristics for a turbo EJ. Redline 5w30 stands up to track days as well or better than RT6 and is substantially better in the bitter cold. A smoking value it's not, but from a technical perspective it's about the best oil available for a turbo EJ.

The old SM formula of Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic 5w30 was nearly indistinguishable from German Castrol at everything but extreme cold performance and was a great value. Spec sheet, VOA and UOA info on the M1 ESP 5w30 I just put in my car indicate it's one of the best oils available, with a cutting edge additive package and excellent base stocks. It's the development platform on which the latest (SN) generation of M1 0w40 is built, see this presentation, particularly pages 31-32. The only area it might be a bit weak is drain interval, but that's still TBD.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
I'm changing mine today. M1 ESP 5w30.

Yea, I know, spendy, low TBN, yada yada. If you're going to experiment, might as well pick something on the frontier of technology. The DI VW/Audi folks claim it's the best for preventing intake deposits. Might be just the thing for owners of new FA20 DIT engines who want something a bit thicker than RC 5w30, though my engine isn't the best test case. We'll see how it holds up, I'm going to run it for at least 6,500 miles, possibly with an intermediate UOA. The one thing I'm worried about is inducing some oil consumption by switching, so far my engine has never required any replenishment in 53k mi.

When we left for grandma's house on Christmas eve it was -19*F here. The car was a bit crabby out on the road with Redline 5w30 in the sump. Turbo responsiveness was slow and the engine makes more growling noises, though I'm not sure I can blame the growling noises on the oil. Still, not quite as good in extreme cold as GC or especially the Redline 0w30. I suspect the RL 5w30 has thickened a bit with 6,000+ miles on it, at least in very cold temps. Nothing to report on starting behavior as it was in the garage and plugged in.
I have about 2k on my OCI with ESP so far. I think I'll do a UOA around 5k without changing the oil. If the TBN comes back good, I'll try and run it out to 7.5k. I've consumed about 1/3 of a quart in 2k (probably because I've been switching oils a lot). We had a -12F morning a few weeks ago and the ESP did well. Seemed to struggle a bit initially starting, but ran just fine when driving.
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:50 PM   #25
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Too bad about the consumption, but 1/3 qt in 2k mi isn't bad. Or should we be saying 1/3 liter? Hopefully it stops by your next OCI.

The fact that M1 ESP comes in liters is both good and bad. It's nice to use an even number of bottles to fill the engine to midpoint on the dipstick (4.0 L), but you don't get to top it to the "full" mark like you do with 4.5 quarts.

Good to hear ESP performed well on a really cold day. Care to compare it to PU or Castrol OE? I haven't driven my car on M1 ESP yet, but I will in sub zero temps this week. Of the oils I've used on brutally cold days Redline 0w30 is clearly the best, followed by GC and then closely by Redline 5w30. In -10*F or below the engine is pretty sluggish and cranky on RT6.
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