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Old 12-30-2013, 10:31 AM   #2701
Asharus
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349awhp/366tq @19psi E85

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thanks, that means ill be gassin up every other day, instead of every 3 days. seems about right.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:45 AM   #2702
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
thanks, that means ill be gassin up every other day, instead of every 3 days. seems about right.
Oh, I thought I read 100 miles each way lol. 100 total isn't too bad. I drive my car that much at times and I don't mind the frequent fill-ups. The power gain for the cost with E85 is worth it for most people.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:57 AM   #2703
Asharus
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im putting in FIC 1100 injectors and a DW fuel pump next week and getting a pump tune. i just wanted more fuel since my IDC is at 95%, and had no plans on going E85 initially, but since i'm gonna have the fuel for it anyway, i figured might as well do it once the summer blend comes out.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:12 PM   #2704
amalgrover
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Its about a 10-20% drop in fuel economy depending on the setup so...just to give you an idea...
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:41 PM   #2705
chilakas
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Really been interested in doing the switch to e85, but the question is; is this a bad idea for my engine? It already has 150k miles on it. It has been burning oil for some time now, and I know I need to do a rebuilt. The engine its still strong just have to keep adding oil. I want to know if running e85 on my engine will make it blow quickly?
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:04 PM   #2706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilakas View Post
Really been interested in doing the switch to e85, but the question is; is this a bad idea for my engine? It already has 150k miles on it. It has been burning oil for some time now, and I know I need to do a rebuilt. The engine its still strong just have to keep adding oil. I want to know if running e85 on my engine will make it blow quickly?
Tuning for E85 will add quite a bit more tq which could cause your 150k oil burning engine to degrade faster or fail. Yes.

The Ethanol itself has a higher resistance to detonation and knock so the fuel won't make your engine crap out, yet the added power/torque might.

You might wanna consider rebuilding before modding it any further.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:06 PM   #2707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
Its about a 10-20% drop in fuel economy depending on the setup so...just to give you an idea...
This is too true lol. If i granny it around i can get 15-17mpg, driving spirited here and there nets me around 12mpg and romping on it often gets me a whopping 9-10mpg lmao.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:47 PM   #2708
yamahaSHO
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I get 20+ if I cruise on the freeway. My easy going, mixed (good bit of freeway) net me about 19.x mpg. On average, since I like to step on the right pedal, I average 16-17 mpg.

When I first bought my car and went straight to Cobb Stage 2, it was getting 20-21 mpg for mixed driving.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:51 AM   #2709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
I get 20+ if I cruise on the freeway. My easy going, mixed (good bit of freeway) net me about 19.x mpg. On average, since I like to step on the right pedal, I average 16-17 mpg.

When I first bought my car and went straight to Cobb Stage 2, it was getting 20-21 mpg for mixed driving.
I get close to 30 on the highway if i drive conservatively.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #2710
elbertmurphy
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I converted to e85 two years ago after reading all this stuff about the power it adds etc and now I get horrible gas mileage and a handful of others issues. Just add a water and meth kit and you'll be good. I'm converting back to pump gas and will be adding the 50/50 kit. Also e85 WILL eat up your fuel pump, aftermarket frp and your injectors prematurely. The other issue is your ability to travel long distances will be gone unless you bring like 3 or 4 big jugs full of e85. I've had a slew of issues with e85 and honestly unless this is for a dedicated track car save yourself the headache. I know this comment will bring a lot negative feed back from others that swear by e85. But these have been my experiences with e85.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:42 AM   #2711
Asharus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
I converted to e85 two years ago after reading all this stuff about the power it adds etc and now I get horrible gas mileage and a handful of others issues. Just add a water and meth kit and you'll be good. I'm converting back to pump gas and will be adding the 50/50 kit. Also e85 WILL eat up your fuel pump, aftermarket frp and your injectors prematurely. The other issue is your ability to travel long distances will be gone unless you bring like 3 or 4 big jugs full of e85. I've had a slew of issues with e85 and honestly unless this is for a dedicated track car save yourself the headache. I know this comment will bring a lot negative feed back from others that swear by e85. But these have been my experiences with e85.
what other drawbacks have you encountered? so far from my research the biggest drawback is potentially gunking up your injectors from the lacquer the E85 can dissolve from your fuel tank, and possibly eat away some fuel lines.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:43 AM   #2712
yamahaSHO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostHard View Post
I get close to 30 on the highway if i drive conservatively.
Like coming down out of the mountains, coasting most of the way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
I converted to e85 two years ago after reading all this stuff about the power it adds etc and now I get horrible gas mileage and a handful of others issues.
What are your issues? I'm sure you get horrible gas mileage.... To the tune of 15%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
Just add a water and meth kit and you'll be good. I'm converting back to pump gas and will be adding the 50/50 kit.
BTDT on another car and it was more of a pain than anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
Also e85 WILL eat up your fuel pump, aftermarket frp and your injectors prematurely.
Non "E85 pumps" haven't been having any issues. And aftermarket FPR should have ZERO problems with E85, and if you use quality injectors you won't have issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
The other issue is your ability to travel long distances will be gone unless you bring like 3 or 4 big jugs full of e85. I've had a slew of issues with e85 and honestly unless this is for a dedicated track car save yourself the headache. I know this comment will bring a lot negative feed back from others that swear by e85. But these have been my experiences with e85.
Again, what are these issues? If you needed the mileage, you should have had multiple maps. You would be able to run gas when you wanted teh MPG'z. Hell, I pretty much get the same mileage on E85 as I did on my Cobb map with gas.

Last edited by yamahaSHO; 01-14-2014 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:28 AM   #2713
Asharus
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This is one of my concerns:

http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/faqs/#10

What type of fuel can I use in my injector?
Typically you can use just about any fuel in today’s injectors (see 2150cc exception below). While the injector will operate normally with just about any fuel, you do have to take some precautions with certain fuels.
E85:
This fuel is now commonly available for use in stock road vehicles and is therefore “approved” for use without modification in today’s fuel systems. However, in the performance world we need to take a few extra precautions since we do a few things differently than the typical soccer mom.
1) An important thing to remember is that E85 is 85% ethanol; Alcohol based fuels (like ethanol) are hygroscopic (see technical data). That means that if the fuel stands for a while, it will draw water from the air and potentially start corroding (rusting) parts that are not protected. In any injector it is necessary for some of the internal parts to be made of ferrous metals since the electromagnet would not be able to open the valve if it were non-ferrous. These ferrous parts can corrode (rust) if not protected. Under normal conditions enough fuel flows through the system to expel the water and let the 15% gasoline do its job of both lubricating and protecting the internal parts against corrosion. If a vehicle is only run occasionally or the injectors are removed from the sealed fuel system, the injector parts can be exposed to conditions they are not designed for and cause the injector to lock up or change the flow rate.
Under most circumstances we are able to clean these injectors and return them to their proper operating condition, but in some cases the effects can be terminal (see 2150cc care).
2) It has come to our attention that the ethanol in the E85 dissolves some of the buildup (lacquer) that gasoline leaves behind in a fuel system (this includes the whole fuel supply chain, refinery tanks, tanker trucks and gas station tanks) and carries these solids in suspension all the way through the fuel system (including through all types of common fuel filters). As a result, these solids interact with the gasses and other suspended chemicals in the intake to form solid deposits. These deposits manifest themselves in a “black goo” (glue like substance) on the injector nozzle and in the intake tract. Over time this buildup can cause the injectors spray pattern to change and eventually blocks some of the flow out of the injector.
While these deposits can be removed by our cleaning system, you want to be keenly aware of this issue (especially if you have recently switched to E85) to make sure you do not damage your engine as the injector flow decreases.
While we have not found a definite cure for this issue, you can try some of this DIY advice with which some of our customers have had success:
-Run a tank of gasoline every 2-3 months to dissolve the buildup.
-Run fuel cleaners to dissolve and remove the deposits (limited success reported here!)
-Clean the fuel tip of the injectors with brake cleaner after identifying buildup during visual inspection. This works when the buildup is only external and is only influencing the spray pattern. By the time the buildup is internal and the flow is inhibited by buildup on the valve seat, this type of cleaning will no longer be effective.
As an additional step to the item above, you can try to pulse the injector (use a 9V battery – see “Can I check whether my injectors are working myself?”) while forcing the brake cleaner through the open injector in the normal direction of fuel flow (you do not want to get more gunk into the valve by back-flowing!) Try this at your own risk! We always suggest a professional cleaning (like those offered by FIC), but we understand sometimes that is not possible.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:44 AM   #2714
yamahaSHO
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2004 S2000 - E85

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
This is one of my concerns:

http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/faqs/#10

What type of fuel can I use in my injector?
Typically you can use just about any fuel in today’s injectors (see 2150cc exception below). While the injector will operate normally with just about any fuel, you do have to take some precautions with certain fuels.
E85:
This fuel is now commonly available for use in stock road vehicles and is therefore “approved” for use without modification in today’s fuel systems. However, in the performance world we need to take a few extra precautions since we do a few things differently than the typical soccer mom.
1) An important thing to remember is that E85 is 85% ethanol; Alcohol based fuels (like ethanol) are hygroscopic (see technical data). That means that if the fuel stands for a while, it will draw water from the air and potentially start corroding (rusting) parts that are not protected. In any injector it is necessary for some of the internal parts to be made of ferrous metals since the electromagnet would not be able to open the valve if it were non-ferrous. These ferrous parts can corrode (rust) if not protected. Under normal conditions enough fuel flows through the system to expel the water and let the 15% gasoline do its job of both lubricating and protecting the internal parts against corrosion. If a vehicle is only run occasionally or the injectors are removed from the sealed fuel system, the injector parts can be exposed to conditions they are not designed for and cause the injector to lock up or change the flow rate.
Under most circumstances we are able to clean these injectors and return them to their proper operating condition, but in some cases the effects can be terminal (see 2150cc care).
2) It has come to our attention that the ethanol in the E85 dissolves some of the buildup (lacquer) that gasoline leaves behind in a fuel system (this includes the whole fuel supply chain, refinery tanks, tanker trucks and gas station tanks) and carries these solids in suspension all the way through the fuel system (including through all types of common fuel filters). As a result, these solids interact with the gasses and other suspended chemicals in the intake to form solid deposits. These deposits manifest themselves in a “black goo” (glue like substance) on the injector nozzle and in the intake tract. Over time this buildup can cause the injectors spray pattern to change and eventually blocks some of the flow out of the injector.
While these deposits can be removed by our cleaning system, you want to be keenly aware of this issue (especially if you have recently switched to E85) to make sure you do not damage your engine as the injector flow decreases.
While we have not found a definite cure for this issue, you can try some of this DIY advice with which some of our customers have had success:
-Run a tank of gasoline every 2-3 months to dissolve the buildup.
-Run fuel cleaners to dissolve and remove the deposits (limited success reported here!)
-Clean the fuel tip of the injectors with brake cleaner after identifying buildup during visual inspection. This works when the buildup is only external and is only influencing the spray pattern. By the time the buildup is internal and the flow is inhibited by buildup on the valve seat, this type of cleaning will no longer be effective.
As an additional step to the item above, you can try to pulse the injector (use a 9V battery – see “Can I check whether my injectors are working myself?”) while forcing the brake cleaner through the open injector in the normal direction of fuel flow (you do not want to get more gunk into the valve by back-flowing!) Try this at your own risk! We always suggest a professional cleaning (like those offered by FIC), but we understand sometimes that is not possible.
I'm using OEM WRX/STi dark blue injectors on my S2000 for E85. It's sitting for the winter, but I plan to pop out an injector and check for any corrosion from sitting for 5-6 months. The fuel system is sealed, so there shouldn't really be any water to absorb out of the air.

I've stored my ID1000's on my STi for a couple winters without issue. We haven't had any of the gunk on our injectors and parts here. We had a bearing spin on a car that had been running E85 for a couple years as a daily driver. The injectors (ID1000's) were spotless, TGV's were spotless, top side of intake valves were spotless, and the combustion chamber was nice and clean with no build up (extremely light/thin coating of carbon). I'll have to post the pictures when I get home.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:51 AM   #2715
Asharus
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349awhp/366tq @19psi E85

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that sounds promising. my car is a DD so that's not really going to be an issue except for when i take a week or two off for vacation.

the gunk buildup hopefully is just a myth?

also, i change my rotella T6 every 5k miles (usually about 2-3 months for me), and i heard you should do it more often when running E85, like every 3k? is this correct?
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:59 AM   #2716
WRXt4cy
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02 v8 Spec C E85

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I'm at 31,000 miles on my 2011 and its been running only E85 for 2 years, 21,000 miles now. My car sits around a lot over the winters. I swapped out my 1000's for 1400's 5 months ago and swapped my DW65c pump for a walbro 400. My injectors, pump housing, filter, etc were all clean as could be.

I'll be tearing down my stock long block to swap in a built bottom end and I'll be very interested to see how things look.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:29 PM   #2717
yamahaSHO
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2004 S2000 - E85

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
that sounds promising. my car is a DD so that's not really going to be an issue except for when i take a week or two off for vacation.

the gunk buildup hopefully is just a myth?

also, i change my rotella T6 every 5k miles (usually about 2-3 months for me), and i heard you should do it more often when running E85, like every 3k? is this correct?
The gunk isn't a myth, but I think it may have more to do with location, handling, ect. There was a thread (Evo boards?) where a guy did some testing to see if the gunk was present in the E85.

I am pulling my motor here soon as I am lifting a head. I am curious to see what the internals look like on it, however, I don't expect them to be any different than the WRX I referenced above. The motor has 34k miles on it and has run E85 for a few years. Since I have to pull the motor for head studs, it's just getting a brand new short block with Manley A/B drop-in pistons.

As far as OCI's, the only real way to get any valuable information on it would be to have it sampled. Depending on driving habits/styles, usage, weather, etc, it could vary. I really don't get to drive my car enough, so it gets an oil change once every year, twice on a good year. Because of this, it works out to be around 2k miles. I'd like to drive it more, but between waiting on parts, life, and other cars (track car), it doesn't get driven much.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:06 PM   #2718
Asharus
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cool, looking forward to both of your results.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:49 PM   #2719
yamahaSHO
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2004 S2000 - E85

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
I'm using OEM WRX/STi dark blue injectors on my S2000 for E85. It's sitting for the winter, but I plan to pop out an injector and check for any corrosion from sitting for 5-6 months. The fuel system is sealed, so there shouldn't really be any water to absorb out of the air.

I've stored my ID1000's on my STi for a couple winters without issue. We haven't had any of the gunk on our injectors and parts here. We had a bearing spin on a car that had been running E85 for a couple years as a daily driver. The injectors (ID1000's) were spotless, TGV's were spotless, top side of intake valves were spotless, and the combustion chamber was nice and clean with no build up (extremely light/thin coating of carbon). I'll have to post the pictures when I get home.

I don't have the pictures of the TGV's and top sides of the valves, but here is what I do have:



This picture is a bit deceiving; when I saw it in person and after it had dried from coolant getting in there, the black coating was almost like a stain. Machine marks could clearly be seen on the piston tops.




Prior to running E85, this car was on an extremely bad tune that pegged the WBO2 on gas and had boost cut issues, among other problems.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:17 AM   #2720
elbertmurphy
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YamahaSHO, everything I wrote is what happened. My aeromotive 340 pump, AEM fpr and my injectors all had early failure due to e85(sent th parts to get repaired and the manufacture said this was a result of e85). As for tuning, put the car on a dyno and tune it. If you want a tune that's a little easier on the gas ok cool, but anything more than that is stupid and yet again another draw back to e85. All of the forums are covered with users saying they're gas mileage has gone to **** and there are like one or three people saying they don't have that issue. I already told you that these where my experiences with e85 and not bias postings, so quoting my story with clams from manufactures is irrelevant. Every fuel part you buy will have a disclaimer saying that e85 can cause premature failure because of its corrosive nature. Now running 100% methanol will corrode metal and cause major issues however it has been known that I you run a 50/50 mix you can avoid that issue. Oh and the other question, I ran "special" fuel lines from earls that where supposed to be alternative fuel compatible. For the most part they looked good but there was some spots that had corrosion so I that gives you any idea...
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:35 AM   #2721
ride5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
All of the forums are covered with users saying they're gas mileage has gone to ****
well of course it does.

the btus/mass is far lower for ethanol vs. gasoline.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:15 AM   #2722
yamahaSHO
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2004 S2000 - E85

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
YamahaSHO, everything I wrote is what happened. My aeromotive 340 pump, AEM fpr and my injectors all had early failure due to e85(sent th parts to get repaired and the manufacture said this was a result of e85).
So some parts made to withstand E85 were confirmed by the manufacturers of said parts said their parts failed from E85?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
As for tuning, put the car on a dyno and tune it. If you want a tune that's a little easier on the gas ok cool, but anything more than that is stupid and yet again another draw back to e85. All of the forums are covered with users saying they're gas mileage has gone to **** and there are like one or three people saying they don't have that issue.
My 15% comment was hinting towards the 15% of E85 that isn't ETHANOL. ETHANOL has less energy than gas and requires more of it to be burned. Dyno not required for tuning; gas tune is a seperate fuel and map from E85.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
I already told you that these where my experiences with e85 and not bias postings, so quoting my story with clams from manufactures is irrelevant. Every fuel part you buy will have a disclaimer saying that e85 can cause premature failure because of its corrosive nature.
I have purchased parts specifically stating they were made for E85 and do not say anything to the effect of possible premature failure due to ethanol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
Now running 100% methanol will corrode metal and cause major issues however it has been known that I you run a 50/50 mix you can avoid that issue. Oh and the other question, I ran "special" fuel lines from earls that where supposed to be alternative fuel compatible. For the most part they looked good but there was some spots that had corrosion so I that gives you any idea...
Methanol, of any content will still have corrosive properties. I ran water/meth in my 500+whp SHO for 9 years and E85 has been far less of a hassle. I converted it to E85 later on almost 20 year old Ford fuel components and didn't have any issues.

More info on these "special" fuel lines. You re-ran metal fuel lines?

I'm sure you had problems, but after reading your last two posts, I'm not convinced ethanol is specifically your problem.
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:35 PM   #2723
elbertmurphy
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Unless I happened to get the bad batch of the lot for all of my fuel system I'm saying it was the e85. Here was the set I had Earls an lines and fittings, Aeromotive 340 pump, AEM fpr and UMS tuning 1180cc injectors. Now I already said that this was going to cause an uproar because there are people who are convinced that e85 is the best thing to happen to fuel in a long time and I'll agree that it does have some awesome capabilities but my experience was anything but awesome. I had everything rebuilt and ordered new injectors, lines and a Aquamist meth kit. I'm done with e85.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:29 PM   #2724
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elbertmurphy View Post
Unless I happened to get the bad batch of the lot for all of my fuel system I'm saying it was the e85. Here was the set I had Earls an lines and fittings, Aeromotive 340 pump, AEM fpr and UMS tuning 1180cc injectors. Now I already said that this was going to cause an uproar because there are people who are convinced that e85 is the best thing to happen to fuel in a long time and I'll agree that it does have some awesome capabilities but my experience was anything but awesome. I had everything rebuilt and ordered new injectors, lines and a Aquamist meth kit. I'm done with e85.
What was physically wrong with your pump and injectors? Were they gunked up? Rusted?

To YamahaSHO's point about the gunk issue, I also think some stations did poor job handling the addition of E85. My theory is that some stations re-purposed old diesel tanks to be used for E85 rather than putting new tanks in. They might have tried to clean them out but I bet the E85 pulled some residue into the fuel and this fell out of solution and was gunking up injectors. We've never seen issues like this here in the Midwest but a lot of our E85 is at new stations. I asked at all the local stations that added E85 pumps and verified they buried new tanks to put it in.

You gotta look at the numbers. There are SO many people running E85 now across all the different platforms. If there was an issue with it to the effect of what you experienced, people would know about it.

In all my experience with it, the only issue I can say it is has is a drop in fuel economy, albeit, not really that bad of one.

I tell people E85 isn't about the miles per gallon, its about the smiles per gallon.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:13 PM   #2725
06rexwagon
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Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post

I tell people E85 isn't about the miles per gallon, its about the smiles per gallon.
Stealing that.....
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