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Old 12-15-2013, 01:13 AM   #26
scottjua
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Having owned a WRX Wagon, and an STi for a number of years... tracking both... the STi all the time... AND Instructing at the track for the past 5 years and having driven everything under the sun...

BRZ.

The STi is fast... oh yes... but I relish every opportunity to drive an NA, light weight, FR car, or MR car over the STi on track every single time I'm out there. There's really something to be said for chassis dynamics over raw HP and speed.

You really can do silly things in an STi on track and still stay on. You'll learn so much more in the BRZ, while not going plaid (space balls reference).

BRZ

BRZ

BRZ
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:20 AM   #27
T-dub
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Ya can't win the events that I go to, but you can lose them. I'm just out there have fun and get faster. The brz is going to be a blast, even without add ons. That's why I bought it. The clutch is going to take a little getting used to though. ;-)

After the motor is broken in ill take it out bone stock, and see what it needs. I don't think it will need too much. Beef up the transmission mount. Pads an rubber. Maybe a master cylinder brace if there is any firewall deflection. Other than that I just have to learn how to drive it....but when I'm comfortable with it, it will need more power. For sure.

Last edited by T-dub; 12-15-2013 at 03:30 AM.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:55 AM   #28
Back Road Runner
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They're two different cars. Plus we're not talking stock to stock, so you can pretty much tune out whatever you don't like with either.

BRZ:
- cheaper new
- light weight and small size
- more pure rwd goodness
- good ergonomics
- feels cheaper in build quality and finish
- low cargo space and barely usable rear seats

STI
- huge power potential
- can effectively put power to the ground with awd goodness
- high versatility of a 5 passenger vehicle with trunk room
- better overall fit and finish and feel
- pretty much bullet proof powertrain as long as you swap in forged pistons
- higher price point
- might be good (or bad) to wait for 2015 model

Overall it gets hard to justify a BRZ from a functional and practical standpoint. The STI is just more car. I wouldn't mind arguing handling of the BRZ if we were talking stock to stock, but since we're not, it's all up in the air really. The STI can be tuned to handle amazing too, and the weight difference isn't much. The STI has a lot more power and a lot more tire.

I've driven a BRZ in auto-x. I liked it. I liked it better than I like a S2000 or Miata. Then again I also like a Mustang in auto-x and think it's more fun than a BRZ. I auto-x a Forester XT with the STI 6sp and brakes. It's modded a good deal, and it's pretty quick.

The problem is cars are fun for different reasons. A STI has certain functionality and enjoyment. The BRZ has certain functionality and enjoyment. They're different though, so it's not really a matter of comparison. I think the BRZ is an excellent platform in the same kind of way I think a Lotus Elise is an excellent platform. It's packaging that highlights certain features not easily found in other cars and not found all that often in stock form. It's benefit is unfortunately partially based around what it offers stock. Once we step away from stock with any car, things change.

Also at the same time a BRZ is kind of a toy car. When it comes toy cars, I tend to lean towards something that's as mindlessly fun as possible. I view a Mustang 5.0 as a better package for that kind of play. It's just a good "Weeee!" car while offering more daily functionality than a BRZ. It still handles well, has more than adequate power, and can be played around with more than a BRZ. Plus that too can be modded and made into something pretty ridiculous.

I'll say this. I've gotten to ride in and drive a reasonable number of interesting cars in auto-x. One thing it's allowed is an introduction to some automotive metrics and a resulting perception of interest and enjoyment. I've enjoyed old school RX7s and their great mechanical feel. I've enjoyed high hp Subarus that rocket around the course with ease, and I've enjoyed tossable muscle cars like the Mustang with pretty darn good, modern Ford tuning. I've driven a Viper and liked it less than a Mustang although it's a faster car and technically more planted. At the end of the day I like to experience these vehicles and see which I might liking owning some day. I can drive a S2000 and say to myself I really am not compelled to own one. I can drive a Civic Si and not be compelled either. I drive a BRZ and it feels good, but it feels good in a way that says I need to do some mods to really pull out what the platform offers. The newer Mustang is about the only car I've driven as of recent that actually has me wanting to own one, and that doesn't happen that often. It just has a good mix of playfulness, good enough handling to let a driver do a variety of things, and it still retains pretty good functionality in terms of fitting people, cargo, and just doing day to day actions.

So I guess I'm saying is for you to buy a Mustang. Go buy a 5.0 GT with track pack, brembo upgrade, and recaro upgrade or find a Boss 302. It'll give you more smiles.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post

So I guess I'm saying is for you to buy a Mustang. Go buy a 5.0 GT with track pack, brembo upgrade, and recaro upgrade or find a Boss 302. It'll give you more smiles.

Heh, thats what i did. 2012 gt w/ast4150's and a set of 18x10 and 285's x4. Very entertaining "low buck" new car. Ran a 12.5@115 bone stock powertrain, warranty and all as well. One of the few affordable cars from the factory that honestly came with to much hp in stock form on stock 245" tires lol. Need to mod the chassis, and get a good set of wheels and tires to catch up to the hp stock.

Last edited by Swine; 12-15-2013 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:56 PM   #30
licorice noose
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Having just sold my brz and bought an 05 sti, I find myself agreeing with most of the previous posters. The brz was a great learning tool. Its really only fun if you beat the living **** out of it though. I find the sti to be a much better everyday car.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:17 PM   #31
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It's really an apples and oranges comparison. People normally aren't cross-shopping a BRZ and a STi. The point of this thread was about a track car, not a daily driver.

The STi really is like a meat cleaver where a BRZ is more like a scalpel. To say the weight isn't much different is crazy talk. My BRZ in CS autocross trim is 2640lbs. I don't think you could get a STi within 500lbs of that. My SM WRX was still 300+lbs heavier and most of it is in the front of the car. I autocrossed a STU STi in one event this year and it really made me miss the BRZ. I just drove one a couple weeks ago with the Innovate supercharger and while it makes the car more of a handful it's pretty awesome, and would have been nice if they came that way from the factory.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:48 PM   #32
kfoote
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+1 on the BRZ over the STI for a beginning track driver.

The STI does some very strange things at the limit that don't translate well to other AWD cars, never mind FWD or RWD cars. The BRS will teach you how to manage tire scrub and reward smoothness a lot more than the STI does. The STI is a faster car, but it takes a lot mroe effort and adaptations to its driving quirks than the BRZ will.

IMO, in the next 2-3 years the BRZ/FR-S will take over the spot of the Miata for a fun, reliable, and easy on consumables track car.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:11 PM   #33
Radeon
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If you take it to the track w/o a reflash, take it easy on redline shifts from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:16 PM   #34
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So many contradictory statements in this thread.

It's a personal decision only you can make. So drive them both and pick one. It's that easy.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:42 PM   #35
Ernest
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I say STI because it offers more all round practicality. Can actually fit 4 people in the car. More room, AWD, power, etc.

No diss on the BRZ, great platform but it's a small car.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:48 PM   #36
Back Road Runner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swine View Post
Heh, thats what i did. 2012 gt w/ast4150's and a set of 18x10 and 285's x4. Very entertaining "low buck" new car. Ran a 12.5@115 bone stock powertrain, warranty and all as well. One of the few affordable cars from the factory that honestly came with to much hp in stock form on stock 245" tires lol. Need to mod the chassis, and get a good set of wheels and tires to catch up to the hp stock.
The lighter grip is also part of the fun, sort of like with the BRZ. There's still a bit of rubber there and good overall grip, but it's light enough to make the 400hp feel more than adequate. You get a nice, low 1st gear that lets you spin tires, and power output feels more than enough for the first few gears. You can still have it pegged to the floor in a straight line, but you won't typically be at 100% throttle cornering at anything south of highway speed on a twisty course.

The handling is set up well too, enough so that you can be heavy with throttle and light with steering or heavy with steering and light on throttle and rotate the car well. It allows reasonably flexibility. Steering wheel feel is good enough not to have you wondering. Rear grip feel is a little vague but not completely dead. I find Subarus a good deal worse in stock form in terms of tactile sensation of the tires and road surface. The springs and damping are sporty enough for anyone coming from a rolling couch of a car. People who are used to modded cars will still want something a little firmer and with a bit more damping, but it isn't as bad as say a Honda. It is soft enough and light enough in control that you can flick the back end out if you're not too careful with steering inputs.

I like it. It's one of the few cars I've been in recently that has that kind of grin potential.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:06 AM   #37
adamSUBU
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BRZ...think tire budget..ha
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:25 AM   #38
MULEZSTI
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Why don't you give Phil at element tuning a call. I've worked on both his 400hp FRS and his monster STi at the track and they are both very good platforms as we raced in the NARRA, NASA Mid Atlantic, and some GTA. I think it also comes down to what your budget is mainly. The FRS would be the cheapest route and it didn't take Phil long to get the FRS to 400hp. All it had was a Hydra, Turbo kit, custom spec BC Suspension, Water injection, and bigger injectors and a lot of aero (got to keep the power to the ground) . And it was a blast to drive. Where as it's pretty obvious what he has in his STi in this Motorsports forum. So give him a call or an email and he might be able to steer you in the direction you want to go in.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MULEZSTI View Post
Why don't you give Phil at element tuning a call. I've worked on both his 400hp FRS and his monster STi at the track and they are both very good platforms as we raced in the NARRA, NASA Mid Atlantic, and some GTA. I think it also comes down to what your budget is mainly. The FRS would be the cheapest route and it didn't take Phil long to get the FRS to 400hp. All it had was a Hydra, Turbo kit, custom spec BC Suspension, Water injection, and bigger injectors and a lot of aero (got to keep the power to the ground) . And it was a blast to drive. Where as it's pretty obvious what he has in his STi in this Motorsports forum. So give him a call or an email and he might be able to steer you in the direction you want to go in.
Lolz. Why am I not surprised you said that. It is the truth though. Phil has taken both cars from stock to championships. I have no input on the BRZ other than the lighter the better. My STI devours everything. Brakes, tires, fuel Etc. The BRZ looked like fun after some slight tweaks. No hard evidence from me but as everyone knows if it sees the track you'll see the receipts. And they won't be shy. Any questions on STI lemme know. GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN!!!
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