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Old 01-11-2014, 06:29 PM   #201
umad
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This mod was for rolling anti lag and anti lag from a stop. I was just sharing that this is not the right way of doing things . Do it right or end up paying for it later.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:31 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by umad View Post
I didn't blow the motor , the stock motor wasn't built to handle the amount of power I was putting down. That's all.

I had launch control setup on last car with tuning software. The right way of doing things.

I sold the shell to guy in Washington , built block to guy in AZ I think and misc stuff to others. . So yes I parted it out and regret it now. .
The motor blew because of YOU. The operator. The one that put it on a stock motor. There's nothing else to blame.

See, not knowing about how launch control works in the tune makes you ignorant to the whole thing. Can you describe how LC can possibly produce boost with very low load? Can you tell me what timing is doing during the rev limiter? This all works together to do very similar stuff, just in different ways and with different triggers. This button only tells the computer false temps to spoof it to change timing where the rev limiter would have done a VERY similar timing dip. This only speeds it up and requires you to NOT have to keep bouncing off the limiter to achieve the results quicker.

Don't be so quick to judge with so little information.


I don't think you'd have a soul if you didn't regret that decision.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:55 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
The motor blew because of YOU. The operator. The one that put it on a stock motor. There's nothing else to blame.

See, not knowing about how launch control works in the tune makes you ignorant to the whole thing. Can you describe how LC can possibly produce boost with very low load? Can you tell me what timing is doing during the rev limiter? This all works together to do very similar stuff, just in different ways and with different triggers. This button only tells the computer false temps to spoof it to change timing where the rev limiter would have done a VERY similar timing dip. This only speeds it up and requires you to NOT have to keep bouncing off the limiter to achieve the results quicker.

Don't be so quick to judge with so little information.


I don't think you'd have a soul if you didn't regret that decision.

I knew the motor would blow eventually..It's too be expected. Don't try to blame me for the motor failure cuz I know how to drive and that's all I did. I had a faster time then others with fully built blocks on my stock block so obviously I was doing it right. And I only used lc at the track ..

I know how lc works but it should only be used seldomly as in from a stop at the track .. Doing this from a roll is going to give people the false sense of security and do this way more often then it should be used. Leading up to extremely to much stress on motor.

I know this mod is very similar to the lc on ap but it just seems like the cheap way . Why not just do it right. .

Trust me I learned the hard way , trying to run stock block for so long when I should have built the motor first if I was going for so much hp.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:20 PM   #204
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I knew the motor would blow eventually..It's too be expected. Don't try to blame me for the motor failure cuz I know how to drive and that's all I did. I had a faster time then others with fully built blocks on my stock block so obviously I was doing it right. And I only used lc at the track ..

I know how lc works but it should only be used seldomly as in from a stop at the track .. Doing this from a roll is going to give people the false sense of security and do this way more often then it should be used. Leading up to extremely to much stress on motor.

I know this mod is very similar to the lc on ap but it just seems like the cheap way . Why not just do it right. .

Trust me I learned the hard way , trying to run stock block for so long when I should have built the motor first if I was going for so much hp.
So now people should spend $600 instead of $10 just because they shouldn't be cheap?

And it is clearly posted in the OP that this isn't something you should do often. Same as is said for APs LC.

Just stop man. Let it go.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:31 PM   #205
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The cheap way never pays off.... I'm going to let this go now. I just wanted people to be informed since the subbie community just follows whatever ever one person does and then it is like as if that is the only way to do things. ..

If you can't afford to do things the right way the first time don't do it. . It will just cost you more later , that's a fact ...
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:00 PM   #206
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Not entirely true...my tactrix cable was FAR less expensive vs the cobb ap. My car runs perfectly fine and has for 26k miles in this configuration.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. You don't have to like every option, and surely can choose your own route. I agree if someone jumps on the bandwagon and doesn't know anything about what's happening, they can't be mad when it breaks. People who know what they are doing can use this cheap option and have great results.

I kinda feel like you wouldn't like megasquirt as a standalone management for you too because it does everything (and more) that an AEM unit will do...for cheaper and more labor :P it's the same concept. People doing this are looking for open source options, they require tuning knowledge to some degree. It's not just plug and go like the cobb applied LC is.

I'll be the first to admit though, your rsx build does look pretty fun! How was the wheel spin? :P
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:10 PM   #207
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Not entirely true...my tactrix cable was FAR less expensive vs the cobb ap. My car runs perfectly fine and has for 26k miles in this configuration.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. You don't have to like every option, and surely can choose your own route. I agree if someone jumps on the bandwagon and doesn't know anything about what's happening, they can't be mad when it breaks. People who know what they are doing can use this cheap option and have great results.

I kinda feel like you wouldn't like megasquirt as a standalone management for you too because it does everything (and more) that an AEM unit will do...for cheaper and more labor :P it's the same concept. People doing this are looking for open source options, they require tuning knowledge to some degree. It's not just plug and go like the cobb applied LC is.

I'll be the first to admit though, your rsx build does look pretty fun! How was the wheel spin? :P
True their is more then one way to skin a cat. My comments where geared toward most subaru guys who don't research they just do what the guy online did cuz they think he is smart.

My rsx would spin at over 100 mph on my street tires when tuning on the street. But at the track I had slicks so no spinning.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:13 PM   #208
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I choose to go with the ap so I could install my parts myself and upload the tune. Then drive to dyno instead of worrying about driving with no tune to support etc etc .
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:52 AM   #209
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I choose to go with the ap so I could install my parts myself and upload the tune. Then drive to dyno instead of worrying about driving with no tune to support etc etc .
And I chose open source so I can do the same exact thing for cheaper.
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Old 01-12-2014, 04:00 AM   #210
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Who gives two ****s about an Rsx that blew a motor using fairy juice or whether this is safe or not

Sorry but there is no compulsion being imposed here. $10 antilag - Like it or lump it. The "hack" is not synonymous with hacking into your car. More like a cheat code to get into certain tables in your ecu logic. Nothing dodgy about that unless the intending reader has zero clue about ecu logic.

I have set mine up as follows:

-39 degrees comp in iat comp table for -40deg temp

+40% map fuel trim comp table for -40 deg

I have played with various inputs ranging from -25 degrees through to the maximum -45 compensation. Problem I have is total timing at the specific step in load and airflow point is around 25 degrees, so retarding 39 degrees gives me -14 degrees and with the auto this is not enough to combust the mixture in the exhaust mani.

I've tried tapering base timing down in that specific load region (1.8 g) to no effect.

Needs some more tinkering me thinks

Mick
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Old 01-12-2014, 04:49 AM   #211
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Who gives two ****s about an Rsx that blew a motor using fairy juice or whether this is safe or not

Sorry but there is no compulsion being imposed here. $10 antilag - Like it or lump it. The "hack" is not synonymous with hacking into your car. More like a cheat code to get into certain tables in your ecu logic. Nothing dodgy about that unless the intending reader has zero clue about ecu logic.

I have set mine up as follows:

-39 degrees comp in iat comp table for -40deg temp

+40% map fuel trim comp table for -40 deg

I have played with various inputs ranging from -25 degrees through to the maximum -45 compensation. Problem I have is total timing at the specific step in load and airflow point is around 25 degrees, so retarding 39 degrees gives me -14 degrees and with the auto this is not enough to combust the mixture in the exhaust mani.

I've tried tapering base timing down in that specific load region (1.8 g) to no effect.

Needs some more tinkering me thinks

Mick
My rsx didn't run on fairy juice lol but what ever makes you feel better at night. ... so when you blow your motor Cuz you don't know what your doing who gives a ****
.. lol
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:54 AM   #212
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Thanks bud

I really don't want to sully this thread and its not a personal attack. Was just saying if you don't like it that's cool, move on no one is insisting on you using it.

As for blowing a motor because of this or because i "dont know what im doing" - I dont mind that you think that at all - no ego here. However, you do realize that any sort of performance increase has an inverse relationship on the long term strength and reliability of the moving (or non moving) parts, all things being equal?

Whilst we're on the topic of specifics, care to articulate specifically why this "hack" is any worse than your mega dollar replica of the same thing?
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:13 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by umad View Post

My rsx didn't run on fairy juice lol but what ever makes you feel better at night. ... so when you blow your motor Cuz you don't know what your doing who gives a ****
.. lol
No one cares what you "had"... You don't have it now, so shut the **** up.
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:23 PM   #214
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Thanks bud

I really don't want to sully this thread and its not a personal attack. Was just saying if you don't like it that's cool, move on no one is insisting on you using it.

As for blowing a motor because of this or because i "dont know what im doing" - I dont mind that you think that at all - no ego here. However, you do realize that any sort of performance increase has an inverse relationship on the long term strength and reliability of the moving (or non moving) parts, all things being equal?

Whilst we're on the topic of specifics, care to articulate specifically why this "hack" is any worse than your mega dollar replica of the same thing?
I already said what I had to say. . If you want to use it use it..
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:35 PM   #215
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I choose to go with the ap so I could install my parts myself and upload the tune. Then drive to dyno instead of worrying about driving with no tune to support etc etc .
You do realize you are talking to a lot of guys here who do there own tuning. You flash base maps, I write my own and use OS instead of expensive AP. I have all features I need on OS including SD, LC, FFS, and a lot of normally undefined maps. OS LC Im sure is very similar to AP as they hired guy from OS and Im sure probaly others to help with AP. A lot of us are smart enough to realize what we are doing and how to do it. I see that you are the type that puts parts on and takes it someone else. Also flashing tunes from AP are limited unless you are purchasing shop tunes that aren't specific for your car, and then you may not be getting exactly what you need and you could be putting your car at risk also.

These types of hacks aren't for everyone, and it seems you are the type that they aren't for. Everyone uses hacks as there is always different ways of doing things. I guess you would consider WRC cars hacks as they try very different things and Im sure all of them are what some would consider incorrect.

A lot of guys on nasioc are noobs and there is great information on here for them to learn from. Also a lot of guys on nasioc are very experienced and know what they are doing. Using this mod would be acceptable way of acheving anti lag on race car, but you shouldn't run anti lag on street car/DD. This mod works for building big boost fast, same way anti lag does by retarding timing and adding fuel to be burnt in exhaust to cause turbo to spool faster. It also uses LC to hold rpm steady for you at desired point. Also the roll anti-lag is so you can hold the car at steady rpms while it builts up to desired boost. Its better than brake boost cause for one you don't put un needed heat in your rotors and brakes that will warp them. It also holds are car at steady speed so you don't have to use brakes and when you release button, car will advance timing to normal and immediately respond. Sure its not good for the car, but technically neither is LC, brake boosting, or even running excessive boost on engine that isn't built for it. So sure you may not agree with it, but that is your opinion. We don't expect you to agree or approve, but keep negativity to yourself. Nobody is forcing you to use it and yes it is different than your AP LC.

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Old 01-12-2014, 03:26 PM   #216
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I already said my comments where geared to warn the 95% on guys on here that just do what the other guy did. ..
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:14 PM   #217
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So it has been a couple days since I have installed a iat cut button with my cobb ap.
I am playing with the tuning atm. the default iat (unplugged value is -0,) when depress the ignition drops from ~+20 to -10*. Where I am having trouble is keeping the fuel from cutting. I of coarse immediately thought of fuel cut counter threshold but I cannot seem to find it anywhere? does any one know where I can find that table in a 06 sti ecu? or something to the likes?

what I think is happening is when im on the 2 step it revs up and holds just like a cobb launch control should. I press the button the ignition cuts as well BUT the fuel is being cut from the Launch control. I need to find a table to "retard" the fuel cut. Any ideas?
This does not happen when roll-on racing, the difference being I am not on the 2 step im rolling at xxxx rpm and depress the button, cut the ignition build the boost release and take off.
any ideas?
-Justin
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:04 AM   #218
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Just add some fuel using the MAF IAT comp table


Add to the -40 section
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:16 PM   #219
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Just add some fuel using the MAF IAT comp table


Add to the -40 section
There's a couple problems with that idea. 1: I am on SD and 2 when I'm on the 2 step rev limiter it's coded to cut fuel.

Thanks for the ideas though man
Any body else got an idea?
-Justin
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:50 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Nemesis_STI View Post

There's a couple problems with that idea. 1: I am on SD and 2 when I'm on the 2 step rev limiter it's coded to cut fuel.

Thanks for the ideas though man
Any body else got an idea?
-Justin
Have you tried holding the button before the limiter is hit?
And what is the rpm delta of the 2step? Have you tried narrowing it?
Also do you have access to "primary open loop fueling compensation (timing compensation)? I wonder if you could tweak that to richen it up enough to get what you need even with the fuel cut.

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Old 01-16-2014, 01:27 PM   #221
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Have you tried holding the button before the limiter is hit?
And what is the rpm delta of the 2step? Have you tried narrowing it?
Also do you have access to "primary open loop fueling compensation (timing compensation)? I wonder if you could tweak that to richen it up enough to get what you need even with the fuel cut.
The rpm delta for LC is 50 rpm 4300 and 4250 resume.
Since the LC uses the same logic as the rev limiter I set the 3 values in the fuel cut resume counter threshhold to higher values ie: 6500, 7000 and 7500 (a value ill never see anyways) next Id changes the fuel resume min boost table to 20 psi. Going to try this. Ill also look for the open loop fueling comp table like you mentioned.

I've contemplated how to set the LC to not "bounce" at all. I've seen an heard this and I personally love it. It sounds like its just hovering at a specified rpm and then loads up with lots of negative timing.

-Justin
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:51 PM   #222
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I can hold a steady 4300 limit just like your interested in. Only way for me tho is to set the throttle plate position in the DBW table to 25ft lb instead on the 200 or so ft lb mines programmed at. Only problem is i need either map a or b only to be active during LC fuel cut so i can retain a regular DBW table for normal driving. Anyone know what map is used during LC....A or B ? If we could lock it to one or the other....itd be soo much easier to control LC steadiness. Also...adding fuel per the MAF IAT comp table for me works great. I understand during fuel cut.....well it cuts fuel. Thing is... when it resumes fueling.....whatever fuel is commanded to be added back is the only fuel entering the combustion chambers. I figured if im commanding 14.7 without fuel cut..id need to richen it up twice that amount during fuel cut because the engine is in a on/off state essensially. For me...+45% of fuel at -40 degrees keeps me around12.5-13.0 during fuel cut. Im not sure what you would do regarding speed density. Gotta find a IAT/Fuel reference table for sure.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:09 PM   #223
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I can hold a steady 4300 limit just like your interested in. Only way for me tho is to set the throttle plate position in the DBW table to 25ft lb instead on the 200 or so ft lb mines programmed at. Only problem is i need either map a or b only to be active during LC fuel cut so i can retain a regular DBW table for normal driving. Anyone know what map is used during LC....A or B ? If we could lock it to one or the other....itd be soo much easier to control LC steadiness. Also...adding fuel per the MAF IAT comp table for me works great. I understand during fuel cut.....well it cuts fuel. Thing is... when it resumes fueling.....whatever fuel is commanded to be added back is the only fuel entering the combustion chambers. I figured if im commanding 14.7 without fuel cut..id need to richen it up twice that amount during fuel cut because the engine is in a on/off state essensially. For me...+45% of fuel at -40 degrees keeps me around12.5-13.0 during fuel cut. Im not sure what you would do regarding speed density. Gotta find a IAT/Fuel reference table for sure.
I too think that this would be a sweet option for als! There 2 throttle tables in the ecu for some reason there has to be a way you can chose when each is used. I add fuel in the SD iat comp table currently 25% @ -40

Can you explain your LC setup a little further? I'm not clear on where in the dbw throttle angle map an how many cells you adjust. Also how this relationship works with the 2 step?
Thanks
-Justin

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Old 01-16-2014, 09:16 PM   #224
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I don't have my actual LC set this way........Just for ****s and giggles i tried to mimic the rev limiter found on most anything brand new especially the dodge chargers(yeah yeah i don't care for em much but we see so many of these come thru the shop and one day i got to revin one up and playin with it a little), to my surprise... this thing holds the most rock solid engine speed during rev limiter/fuel cut. Punch it to the floor and its like 4500rpms perfectly...soooo smooth. I wondered what thatd be like with some boost so i started screwin with my limiter. I knew it had to be DBW throttle related cuz the throttle response on the chargers is extremely delayed while in park or neutral, were talkin 2 sec delay for throttle response....2 freakin seconds... Anyways...i set my factory rev/fuel limiter to the same as i would my LC target (4250 with 1 for the rpm delta...ive tried 0 to 50 and i like 1 the best) but since the options are different for the factory rev limiter vs the LC patch (I can actually set the stocker to 4250 on and 4250 off...no delta difference. Surprisingly my rpms were MUCH steadier(barely saw the tach moving) boost was a solid 10psi...and instead of the typical wom...wom...wom...wom...5psi 3psi 5psi 3psi that the Merpmod LC patch does. ..... .I had a much smoother...ppppsssssss pt ppppssssss pt..... ....Weird....... ....... ....So anyway i wasn't there yet. Went to the throttle angle tables and adjusted everything over 4250 to be 25ft lb of torque instead of whatever it was...200...400ft lbs. Fired her up and shazzam!!! Rev limit of 4250..dead smooth...no wom wom wom wom...just pppppsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss 10psi steady as hell....then i hit the ALS button(which is now wired to my clutch switch so i don't have to touch it) for the antilag hack...enable -17 degrees timing and now i had a steady 18 psi....steady......4250rpms...perfectly smooth.

Now.........

Why cant we control rpms during LC the same way the stock limiter does. Why does the delta difference in the LC patch not work as well as the stocker. Why cant i have a smooth psssssss during launch vs a groung shaking womwomwomwomwom on off on off effect. And how can we lock a particular throttle angle table (A or B) to be used only during rev limiting( LC )?

UUUUUGGGGHHHH

Id almost settle for a hack to use the stock limiter for LC for smoothness and just disable the limiter completely as soon as the clutch is let out. ...But then were still left with how to lock onto said throttle table during LC. Dammit.....I know a few Gurus that prolly know something lol
Hope they let us know something.

Last edited by Paidfor; 01-16-2014 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Pot
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:39 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
I don't have my actual LC set this way........Just for ****s and giggles i tried to mimic the rev limiter found on most anything brand new especially the dodge chargers(yeah yeah i don't care for em much but we see so many of these come thru the shop and one day i got to revin one up and playin with it a little), to my surprise... this thing holds the most rock solid engine speed during rev limiter/fuel cut. Punch it to the floor and its like 4500rpms perfectly...soooo smooth. I wondered what thatd be like with some boost so i started screwin with my limiter. I knew it had to be DBW throttle related cuz the throttle response on the chargers is extremely delayed while in park or neutral, were talkin 2 sec delay for throttle response....2 freakin seconds... Anyways...i set my factory rev/fuel limiter to the same as i would my LC target (4250 with 1 for the rpm delta...ive tried 0 to 50 and i like 1 the best) but since the options are different for the factory rev limiter vs the LC patch (I can actually set the stocker to 4250 on and 4250 off...no delta difference. Surprisingly my rpms were MUCH steadier(barely saw the tach moving) boost was a solid 10psi...and instead of the typical wom...wom...wom...wom...5psi 3psi 5psi 3psi that the Merpmod LC patch does. ..... .I had a much smoother...ppppsssssss pt ppppssssss pt..... ....Weird....... ....... ....So anyway i wasn't there yet. Went to the throttle angle tables and adjusted everything over 4250 to be 25ft lb of torque instead of whatever it was...200...400ft lbs. Fired her up and shazzam!!! Rev limit of 4250..dead smooth...no wom wom wom wom...just pppppsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss 10psi steady as hell....then i hit the ALS button(which is now wired to my clutch switch so i don't have to touch it) for the antilag hack...enable -17 degrees timing and now i had a steady 18 psi....steady......4250rpms...perfectly smooth.

Now.........

Why cant we control rpms during LC the same way the stock limiter does. Why does the delta difference in the LC patch not work as well as the stocker. Why cant i have a smooth psssssss during launch vs a groung shaking womwomwomwomwom on off on off effect. And how can we lock a particular throttle angle table (A or B) to be used only during rev limiting( LC )?

UUUUUGGGGHHHH

Id almost settle for a hack to use the stock limiter for LC for smoothness and just disable the limiter completely as soon as the clutch is let out. ...But then were still left with how to lock onto said throttle table during LC. Dammit.....I know a few Gurus that prolly know something lol
Hope they let us know something.
Well that sounds awesome! I'm going to try 4300 on and 4299 off tweak the throttle tables and try it too. I'm assuming that soon as you'd launch the car the dbw throttle table would only be open To the 25ftlb mark too hey? Those tables must be affected by the idle tables or something. We defenatly need a guru here to jump in!
I'm on Cobb so I think there's some limitations as to what tables I have a access to. I guess ill have to try my tactrix 2.0!
-Justin
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