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Old 01-24-2014, 09:17 AM   #4751
79letour
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Without the trolling, and with more and more people realizing their car is chugging oil, its finally going pretty well. Terminator quotes and all...
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:28 AM   #4752
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That doesn't mean every car will increase oil consumption. Our jetta uses between 1qt every 3-5k and has since we bought it with 26k, it now has nearly 150k with no changes in oil usage. Much more expensive oil too
I agree....sounds like your car just didn't break in well and the rings didn't seat as well as they could have, but aren't wearing abnormally.

Our Terrain initially had zero consumption up until about 20k miles...that's when I noticed it had gone through 1 qt in that 5k oil change. I did a UOA and it showed traces of fuel in the oil.

In my situation the issue was two fold, the coating on the rings was bad, and the fuel pump had a leaking shaft seal which introduced fuel in the oil which reduces the oil's lubrication which increased the ring wear.

Based on what the TSB for the FB engine states, they also have problems with the coating on the rings..."surface treatment" is what they're calling it. But, if these new shortblocks with new coated rings still wears poorly, my guess would be Subaru's either got an unknown problem with the heads, or a more possible scenario that their factory tolerances for the ring gaps is incorrect, resulting in the rings never seating properly.

Either way, Subaru has shown that it's fairly resistant or incompetent when it comes to truly fixing the problems...which is a reason I'm hesitant to buy another one. I sold my 2011 STI in part because I was so paranoid about the ringland problems with the EJ series, and they STILL haven't bothered to address the design flaw there.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:34 AM   #4753
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Apparently the next gen sti will still carry on with the ej. But thats for another thread.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:52 AM   #4754
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Apparently the next gen sti will still carry on with the ej. But thats for another thread.
Yes, but the WRX will have a 2.0L engine, and is the model I'd get if it ever comes in a hatchback configuration.

Having said that, this is what the March 2014 issue of Motor Trend says in its "MT Confidential" column:

"If you were one of the many disappointed by the styling of the new WRX, there's hope yet. Subaru will introduce another WRX body style, but it won't be a wagon or hatchback. We interpret that to mean it will be more of a "four-door coupe" with a big hatch, like the Audi A7."

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Old 01-24-2014, 02:46 PM   #4755
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I just wish Subaru built a car that could keep the oil in the crankcase.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:16 PM   #4756
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We picked it up today and ran around a bit. I noticed a little antifreeze smell when I backed into the drive but there was a substantial mound of snow I parked on but it did run well. They put 46 miles on it this time and did 3 compression tests and all was good. If anything else pops up I'll post back.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:47 AM   #4757
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Man that was fast...
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:53 PM   #4758
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Man that was fast...
Yeah, No kidding! Beats having to wait 3 months like I had to.
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:04 PM   #4759
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Yes, but the WRX will have a 2.0L engine, and is the model I'd get if it ever comes in a hatchback configuration.

Having said that, this is what the March 2014 issue of Motor Trend says in its "MT Confidential" column:

"If you were one of the many disappointed by the styling of the new WRX, there's hope yet. Subaru will introduce another WRX body style, but it won't be a wagon or hatchback. We interpret that to mean it will be more of a "four-door coupe" with a big hatch, like the Audi A7."

This is very interesting news. Will this be a NA market only body style, or worldwide? It makes no sense to me why they wouldn't just take the hatch body that they already have with the Impreza, tweak some body panels and make a WRX hatch. That's basically all they did with the WRX sedan after all.
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:27 PM   #4760
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This is very interesting news. Will this be a NA market only body style, or worldwide? It makes no sense to me why they wouldn't just take the hatch body that they already have with the Impreza, tweak some body panels and make a WRX hatch. That's basically all they did with the WRX sedan after all.
It's probably not that simple. There's probably some of the chassis that is constructed differently (such as stronger frame construction, higher tensile materials, ensuring front-back and side-side balancing, etc.) that they had to work into the sedan that they didn't have the luxury to do with the hatchback. It might seem that it was a simple "let's add a hood scoop and call it a day" type job, but I'm sure that the engineering behind it was much, much more complex than that.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 2 years, they re-introduce a hatch style WRX back into the line-up, once their engineers are done troubleshooting the WRX sedan model.
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:31 PM   #4761
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Man that was fast...
They had it all week, had it assembled Thursday and ran it Thurs night and Fri. All they did was put a new set of rings in one bank.
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Old 01-26-2014, 08:28 PM   #4762
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Fastest I've heard of...
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:54 PM   #4763
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Fastest I've heard of...
My terrain was in and out in 3 days. These tech's that do these TSB's often can really take apart and reassemble an engine quick.
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:10 PM   #4764
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I guess this answers why there is such a quick turn around. 25 miles on it since the last rebuild. My wife texted me this morning and said she smelled something burning when she got to the commuter lot. When she got home I opened the hood and 1) antifreeze burning smell 2) antifreeze low in the plastic bottle 3) white slime on the oil dipstick and I can't tell where the oil level is at. I think it is way overfull but it was getting dark by the time she got home. Guess it is another trip to the dealer tomorrow. On the plus side, this is their 3rd and last attempt to fix it before Subaru gets it back. I really hope they opt for a new short block this time. Would it be unreasonable to request a different tech work on it?
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:24 PM   #4765
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I guess this answers why there is such a quick turn around. 25 miles on it since the last rebuild. My wife texted me this morning and said she smelled something burning when she got to the commuter lot. When she got home I opened the hood and 1) antifreeze burning smell 2) antifreeze low in the plastic bottle 3) white slime on the oil dipstick and I can't tell where the oil level is at. I think it is way overfull but it was getting dark by the time she got home. Guess it is another trip to the dealer tomorrow. On the plus side, this is their 3rd and last attempt to fix it before Subaru gets it back. I really hope they opt for a new short block this time. Would it be unreasonable to request a different tech work on it?
better get a new block, you have water in your oil, your bearings are shot at this point.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:15 PM   #4766
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I guess this answers why there is such a quick turn around. 25 miles on it since the last rebuild. My wife texted me this morning and said she smelled something burning when she got to the commuter lot. When she got home I opened the hood and 1) antifreeze burning smell 2) antifreeze low in the plastic bottle 3) white slime on the oil dipstick and I can't tell where the oil level is at. I think it is way overfull but it was getting dark by the time she got home. Guess it is another trip to the dealer tomorrow. On the plus side, this is their 3rd and last attempt to fix it before Subaru gets it back. I really hope they opt for a new short block this time. Would it be unreasonable to request a different tech work on it?
It's not unreasonable to ask for whatever you want at this point. That short block is toasted. Bearings ( like flyboy said) are paper weights at best. You seem like a very even tempered person. I am as well, but dang I'd be in their face at this point. They should have known before it left if 25 miles yielded that result.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:18 PM   #4767
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better get a new block, you have water in your oil, your bearings are shot at this point.
This. Get an oil sample before you give the car back to them. If the coolant level turns out to be non-zero, accept nothing less than a complete, factory-assembled engine. There are bearing surfaces in the heads too.

Last edited by Commander Keen; 01-28-2014 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:10 PM   #4768
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This. Get an oil sample before you give the car back to them. If the coolant level turns out to be non-zero, accept nothing less than a complete, factory-assembled engine. There are bearing surfaces in the heads too.
How much is needed to get a good reading? I ask because I'm taking it in the morning and it will be sub zero here, not good weather to try and open a drain plug on the oil pan.

G2Spfld I try to give the benefit of the doubt to people. I know how it is to learn a new job (if the guy working on it was new) and even if he wasn't, sometimes you miss things. I know I miss things at work and I have 15 years in. I accept a mistake was made the first time, the second time it should have been perfect. In all these years I have learned that you get a lot more done if you are nice and give some latitude for people to work with. Because the oil was low after the first rebuild I wonder if something got too hot and a passage in the block or head cracked? I'm talked with the service manager last week and he was telling me how easy Subaru was to deal with on issues like this and making sure it is right. I guess we shall see.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:16 AM   #4769
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How much is needed to get a good reading? I ask because I'm taking it in the morning and it will be sub zero here, not good weather to try and open a drain plug on the oil pan. G2Spfld I try to give the benefit of the doubt to people. I know how it is to learn a new job (if the guy working on it was new) and even if he wasn't, sometimes you miss things. I know I miss things at work and I have 15 years in. I accept a mistake was made the first time, the second time it should have been perfect. In all these years I have learned that you get a lot more done if you are nice and give some latitude for people to work with. Because the oil was low after the first rebuild I wonder if something got too hot and a passage in the block or head cracked? I'm talked with the service manager last week and he was telling me how easy Subaru was to deal with on issues like this and making sure it is right. I guess we shall see.
I agree, I do the same thing to my detriment. But keep in mind this is an engine in a new(er) car. If its a new tech, he should be supervised and taught to be diligent in his works. I'm an employer. And albeit integrated systems are not necessary life and death, for me to have the very best employees and for them to have pride in their work I need them to be able to perform to the level they were hired for. It does them no good to mess up until they might finally get it right. My yard guy messes up, ok. It'll grow back in a week. But negligence of that magnitude just cost someone a new engine ( commander keen is correct with the long block ), and regardless of it being warrantied it's still an expense and inconvenience for you. This is not something you would expect from a dealership. Maybe I'm wrong in this, but when a client of ours has an issue with something I send two people out. The installer that worked on it and one of the most experienced guys. I do this for two reasons; first being I want the installer to learn from the issue whatever it is so its never an issue again. Usually by having a more experienced tech go over things with them and identify the cause then help them work through it they prevent it from happening again. Secondly, and probably more applicable here is once an issue arises its very important to make sure it is fully resolved immediately. This actually builds more trust and confidence in you and your product sometimes than if the issue never arose. I think once the issue is at the level that they are tearing into your engine, that's already pretty elevated and you have jumped through a fair amount of hoops like consumption tests, etc. It would be expected, IMHO, that the tech saddled with resolving your issue would be the best, most experienced person to do that job. Accidents and issues are sometimes unforeseen and unavoidable but 25 miles after it leaves the lot and your engine is toast would seem like negligence to me. Your right, you get more done with honey than vinegar. But the point where they rather avoid you than be in front of you trying to make sure you are taken care of is the point you need to reevaluate your approach. I think seeing that point is the real skill, and one I'm not even that great at. But I sincerely hope your taken care of. I can tell your a very sincere, caring person. That's refreshing in this crazy world. Some smart people on here ( much smarter than I) have shared their opinion on your situation. I hope you find their remarks insightful as you deal with this tomorrow and in the days to come. Keep us posted please.
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:38 AM   #4770
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Blackstone's containers are the equivalent of about two shot glasses. You have been reasonable and patient, Snowdog, but I think your car is approaching lemon law territory. Tell Blackstone about your situation and they'll be happy to advise.

I've done oil analyses on a car with a failing head gasket before there were visible symptoms. As little as 1% coolant contamination caused a 50x increase in lead (bearing material). Oil pressure had dropped to below factory spec and a tear-down about 1000 miles later showed that most bearing shells had worn down to the copper layer.

I would not trust the same people who rebuilt this engine to re-rebuild it. The cost to properly rebuild it at this point probably exceeds the cost of a long block.

Last edited by Commander Keen; 01-29-2014 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:17 AM   #4771
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I definitely agree with that, CK. Well said.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:16 PM   #4772
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So the car sat outside all night and I wanted to look at the dipstick before I started it. Some dirty white crystals had formed on the dipstick or so I thought. I took a couple photos but they are blurry then I wiped one with my finger at first. It was a slick sludge which kind of reminded me of white lithium grease in a tube. I wiped the dipstick and let it warm up for a few minutes before heading to the dealership. When I got there I asked the service writer to take a look and again the white sludge/film was again on the dipstick about an inch over the oil level. The good news was there was no oil used this time but the coolant was low and the smell was there but not as strong. The service adviser said they would take a look at the oil and let me know. I said that the only think that I will accept at this point is a new block assembly from Subaru and a different tech to do the install. I explained that not knowing where the problem lies leaves me with no choice but to suspect everything so it is best to start over fresh. He seemed to agree.

I also called the lemon law folks and they said that the car qualifies as the first attempt was the oil consumption survey, the second was the ring replacement and the 3rd was fixing the stuck ring. I just have to wait for paperwork to get here. This last trip is just helping the case along.

The big question is, if they give me a new engine is it worth keeping the car? What kind of loss in value will I be looking at when it comes time to get rid of it? I guess the attorney will let me know that.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:26 PM   #4773
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I'm really sorry to hear about your continuing engine situation Snowdog. At this point, I would think that either a brand new preassembled engine or an buyback of your car would be the only two reasonable solutions. Hope everything works out for ya. Keep us posted.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:33 PM   #4774
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I'd want a buyback. Even if you still want a Subaru,you deserve the feeling of a new car, not a cobbled together lemon.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:41 PM   #4775
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Having it show that your engine was replaced on a CARFAX report may scare away some potential buyers if you try to sell your car privately. I'm honestly not sure how another dealership would treat it if you were to try and trade it in. I guess thats a risk that you would have to take if you decide to keep the car. Also, its not guaranteed that your engine being replaced will show up on a vehicle history report. It all depends on whether or not the shop, or your dealership in this instance, reports the repair to an agency like CARFAX. At least that was how it was explained to me by SOA when I had my engine replaced.

If I were you, I'd be on the horn with SOA ASAP to see if they are willing to offer you some kind of incentive to keep your car after it's repaired if that's the road you choose to go down. You might be surprised to see what kind of compensation they may offer you.

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