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Old 01-26-2014, 02:27 PM   #26
hi5.0
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Your top 3 items in your list of "pros" for the 5-spd. indicate you intend to drive the car more often than your fiance. The price difference vs. CVT can be applied toward pro #3. Keep looking for the Impreza you want for as long as you can.

FWIW, do you have other alternate color choices? May make searching a little easier. I have a '13 SWP hatch, but saw the MY '14s in Quartz Blue Pearl and Jasmine Green Metallic (and I don't like green that much other than BRG) which I also like. Black and White are the hardest to keep clean.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Kirkus8 View Post
i am having a very hard time even finding a 5sp in my area...and my area is like subaru capitol! I searched every dealer i know of in the pacific northwest and found only one subaru impreza sport premium with a 5 speed. It does have the rear roof spoiler which is a must for me so thats good but its silver. I want white the most. I have a white cvt on reserve for me now at my local dealer but them and me are both on the lookout for a 5 speed. i need to test drive the 5 speed. I know my fiance prefers the automatic...
Probably need to order it, i think that is what most of us did to get ours.

the gearing on the 5mt is fine, i do with there were 4 acceleration gears instead of 3, but overall i haven't had any problems
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Kirkus8 View Post
calling all new subaru impreza n/a owners! I am torn here. I cannot decided between the automatic (CVT) or the 5 speed.

Things to consider:
5 speed about $1,000 cheaper
5 speed about a second and a half faster 0-60
5 speed will pair with "modding" a little better
cvt better mpg by about 3 mpg
cvt easier to drive in the mountains/traffic
cvt easier to find at dealerships, especially with what i want


What do yall think!? Any good/bad first hand experience!?

this will be my third car, first subaru, and first brand new car. My other two cars were fords both manual 5 speeds. The $1000 cheaper is definatly a plus to me because I do not make a lot of money damn military pay
Honestly, I don't think you'll even notice the 1/2 second difference in 0-60 time. As far the CVT goes, I've only ever driven the one in the Impreza and the one in my girlfriend's Nissan Rogue. Nissan is supposedly known for it's really good CVT transmissions, but the one in the Impreza is 1000X better than Nissan's IMHO. To me, it felt just like a traditional 6 speed auto and was much better than I anticipated. I actually didn't mind driving it at all even though I'm a manual guy. Personally, if I were to do it over again, I would have definitely have given the CVT much more thought. If the extra $1000 isn't a concern of yours and you're not a dedicated manual transmission kind of person, you're prob better off with the CVT for a few reasons. They're easier to find, you're less likely to encounter oil consumption issues according to some sources, you have the option of installing a remote car starter, it's easier to drive in traffic and you're gas mileage should be somewhat better. Just some food for thought.
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:32 PM   #29
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i kinda rulled the $1000 cheaper thing out the window because over the years itll pay for itself with the fuel saved with the cvt (if the numbers are true). I would consider myself a manual tranny guy...I mean i originally wanted the wrx or the focus st (both manuals) but decided to save some money and still have great practicality with the impreza. I will keep my eye out for a 5 speed....I need to test drive one! Ive heard good things about both transmissions. and yes i will be driving the car a lot more than my fiance atleast until we get married!
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:50 PM   #30
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CVT feels better to drive in this car because the gearing of the 5M is crap, but I still wish mine was a manual in hindsight.
The gearing is pretty good actually, if you think about it. The first and second gears have a good bit of torque, which makes the car fun to drive and gets it going. Third is kind of in the middle so meh. Fourth and fifth are pretty steep for fuel efficiency, which is kind of what the objective was with this car. It makes a big difference on the highway. No, it's not all that sporty, but at least it's not all about fuel savings either. I think they found a decent balance for what they needed. The CVT is...well, it's not bad. But it's a CVT. In my mind, unless it's a twin clutch automated manual, I'm out.
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:43 PM   #31
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The cvt actually feels pretty close to a twin clutch auto, just not as quick between gears, but I think most of that is lack of power. That's why I think they added the rpm blip as you change gears in M mode with the cvt. It kinda cracks me up every time I feel it. But really In m mode you would never know its a cvt. Now, a cvt without paddles I think would cause me to hang myself.
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by TRSAndrew View Post
CVT feels better to drive in this car because the gearing of the 5M is crap, but I still wish mine was a manual in hindsight.
As someone who owns a 5MT, and who has driven a CVT as a loaner, I can honestly say that the CVT does not feel better to drive, and that the gearing of the 5MT is not crap.
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:00 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
As someone who owns a 5MT, and who has driven a CVT as a loaner, I can honestly say that the CVT does not feel better to drive, and that the gearing of the 5MT is not crap.
As someone who owns a CVT, has owned 29 cars most of which were manual, and who has driven the manual model 3-4 times now, I can tell you that the gearing of the 5MT is definitely crap. It feels slower than the CVT even though it isn't by the numbers.
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:13 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
As someone who owns a 5MT, and who has driven a CVT as a loaner, I can honestly say that the CVT does not feel better to drive, and that the gearing of the 5MT is not crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSAndrew View Post
As someone who owns a CVT, has owned 29 cars most of which were manual, and who has driven the manual model 3-4 times now, I can tell you that the gearing of the 5MT is definitely crap. It feels slower than the CVT even though it isn't by the numbers.
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:59 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by TRSAndrew View Post

As someone who owns a CVT, has owned 29 cars most of which were manual, and who has driven the manual model 3-4 times now, I can tell you that the gearing of the 5MT is definitely crap. It feels slower than the CVT even though it isn't by the numbers.
I have to agree with you. I own a 5-speed and had a CVT with manual mode loaner for 3 months. The CVT does feel faster and is easier to drive than the manual. I am used to the 5-speed gearing and know how to get the most out of it, but its definitley not the best. Even being a manual guy I usually recommend the CVT over the manual for the Impreza. If the manual was faster or got better gas mileage than the cvt, it would be a little different.
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:25 AM   #36
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Seeing how it sounds like you are in the service I would personally lean towards the CVT. You never know where you will be stationed next. If they plop you down in the DC metro area or Norfolk you will be kicking yourself every day if you get the manual.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:00 AM   #37
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Cvt doesnt have a creaky clutch pedal and runs a lot lower rpm's on the highway.
But I just love a manual.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:42 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by TRSAndrew View Post
As someone who owns a CVT, has owned 29 cars most of which were manual, and who has driven the manual model 3-4 times now, I can tell you that the gearing of the 5MT is definitely crap. It feels slower than the CVT even though it isn't by the numbers.
When it snows, the 5MT is simply a better choice.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 01-27-2014 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:43 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Cvt doesnt have a creaky clutch pedal and runs a lot lower rpm's on the highway.
But I just love a manual.
That's where the CVT is good, on the highway. However around town, the 5MT runs lower rpms. That's why there's not much a difference between the CVT and 5MT mileage UNLESS you do almost all highway.

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Old 01-27-2014, 07:59 AM   #40
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Also, the 5MT in the Impreza and the 5MT in the Crosstrek have 2 different sets of gearing (Which is one of the other reasons I went with the Crosstrek... 1st, 5th and final gears are different)

Crosstrek: 1st 3.545 (33mph), 2nd 1.888 (63mph), 3rd 1.296 (91mph), 4th 0.972 (122mph), 5th 0.780 (152mph), final drive 4.44. (Tire OD: 26.8")
Impreza: 1st gear 3.454 (35mph), 2nd 1.888 (64mph), 3rd 1.296 (93mph), 4th 0.972 (124mph), 5th 0.738 (163mph), final 4.111. (Tire OD: 25.2")

The Crosstrek is a bit more faster off the line than the Impreza. And if I wanted to put shorter tires on it, like the imprezas 25.2" OD, (and have the speedo be off by quite a bit), I would pick up even more speed off the line due to even shorter gearing. (31, 59, 85, 114, 142).

Essentially, if I were to lower the XV using the Impreza Struts/Shocks/springs, and then put on the 25.2" impreza wheels/tires, I would walk every other impreza off the line.

--kC
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:01 AM   #41
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Seeing how it sounds like you are in the service I would personally lean towards the CVT. You never know where you will be stationed next. If they plop you down in the DC metro area or Norfolk you will be kicking yourself every day if you get the manual.
Please don't make blanket statements like this. Whether or not a person would kick himself with a 5MT in a metropolitan area depends on the person. I've driven my 5MT in the DC area, in NYC, and in rush-hour traffic in Rochester. I never think anything of it.

How do you know if the OP would be miserable with a stick in a metropolitan area? Just because you would be miserable in that situation?
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:10 AM   #42
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Wait... Rochester NY metropolitan?

Anyhoo, as I've said before, the clutch in the Impreza and XV is one of the lightest I've ever felt. It really doesn't require much energy to do it in stop and go traffic.

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Old 01-27-2014, 08:24 AM   #43
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I never said Rochester was metropolitan. But driving in a traffic jam is driving in a traffic jam, regardless of whether that traffic jam is in Rochester or NYC.

And we've had plenty of traffic jams here in Rochester over the past month due to the weather. My commute is 20 minutes on a good day, but when the weather gets bad it can take me over an hour. What's difference does it make that I'm gridlocked in Rochester?
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:48 AM   #44
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Because it's ... you know... Rochester.

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Old 01-27-2014, 09:07 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
Please don't make blanket statements like this. Whether or not a person would kick himself with a 5MT in a metropolitan area depends on the person. I've driven my 5MT in the DC area, in NYC, and in rush-hour traffic in Rochester. I never think anything of it.

How do you know if the OP would be miserable with a stick in a metropolitan area? Just because you would be miserable in that situation?
Don't try to sugar coat driving manual in bumper to bumper traffic. For the occasional drive through a metropolitan area, of course, anyone would be fine but when you have a 3 hour/25 mile each-way daily commute you will be hard pressed to find people who like driving a manual. In the kind of traffic that we experience on a daily basis in the DC area if you attempt to leave a lead distance of more then half a car length you will get cut-off. It is not good on the clutch, it's hard on your brakes, and it is horrible for your mileage.

The CVT was tuned with metropolitan traffic in mind. You can tell by the blatantly retarded up-shifting at 40 MPH and the highly-aggressive engine-braking. With a CVT you can maintain the short following distances and with the tuning on the TCM your brakes will last much longer. The TCM is programmed to help with your braking and you can feel it engine-braking as soon as you lift off the gas and in most situations it will assist you down to 3-4 MPH when the injectors have to kick in to maintain RPMs. I am at 60K miles and still have about 60%(~11mm) of my front brake pads remaining and I don't have to worry about a clutch wearing out prematurely.

Also take into consideration the resale value of a manual vs CVT. In general dealers have a hard enough time moving manual tranmissions in new cars and have an even harder time pushing them in the used market because there is no real way to tell if the previous owner beat on the clutch. At the dealer that I worked at in college we would always offer well below "fair market value" on manual transmissions because we knew that it would end up going to auction and would fetch near what we paid for it. As for selling private party you will be marketing your vehicle to a smaller pool of eligible/willing drivers and, again, people have a distrust of the prior owner and will almost always come at you with a lower price because they are not sure if they are going to have to drop $800-1000 into a new clutch within 20K miles. So saving that $1000 up front may end up costing this guy several times that when it comes to trade-in or sell.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:08 AM   #46
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I never said Rochester was metropolitan. But driving in a traffic jam is driving in a traffic jam, regardless of whether that traffic jam is in Rochester or NYC.

And we've had plenty of traffic jams here in Rochester over the past month due to the weather. My commute is 20 minutes on a good day, but when the weather gets bad it can take me over an hour. What's difference does it make that I'm gridlocked in Rochester?
I have many coworkers that would kill for an hour commute.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:36 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by IveBeenRued View Post
As for selling private party you will be marketing your vehicle to a smaller pool of eligible/willing drivers and, again, people have a distrust of the prior owner and will almost always come at you with a lower price because they are not sure if they are going to have to drop $800-1000 into a new clutch within 20K miles.
My personal experience has been quite different. While I agree that there is a smaller pool of people who are in the market for a used car with a clutch, the ones who are in the market for such a car feel strongly about that 3rd pedal, and will pay for it. The guy who bought my 2010 VW Golf TDI said that he had been hunting for a used Golf TDI with four doors and a stick for more than 6 months. When mine came on the market, he paid my (top-dollar private market) price without negotiating. In fact, he was very nervous that I would sell the car out from under him, he wanted it so badly. It didn't hurt that I wrote a brilliant Craigslist ad with lots of pictures, and spoke knowledgeably about the car, which put his concerns at ease.

So yes, it's a smaller pool of potential buyers. But those potential buyers know that they want a clutch and will settle for nothing else, and when one becomes available, they will jump on it because they're so hard to find.

Selling a car that's an uncommon configuration doesn't always make it harder to sell. Sometimes, it's just the opposite.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:10 AM   #48
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My personal experience has been quite different. While I agree that there is a smaller pool of people who are in the market for a used car with a clutch, the ones who are in the market for such a car feel strongly about that 3rd pedal, and will pay for it. The guy who bought my 2010 VW Golf TDI said that he had been hunting for a used Golf TDI with four doors and a stick for more than 6 months. When mine came on the market, he paid my (top-dollar private market) price without negotiating. In fact, he was very nervous that I would sell the car out from under him, he wanted it so badly. It didn't hurt that I wrote a brilliant Craigslist ad with lots of pictures, and spoke knowledgeably about the car, which put his concerns at ease.

So yes, it's a smaller pool of potential buyers. But those potential buyers know that they want a clutch and will settle for nothing else, and when one becomes available, they will jump on it because they're so hard to find.

Selling a car that's an uncommon configuration doesn't always make it harder to sell. Sometimes, it's just the opposite.
Glad to hear you did well on your TDI sale. I too sold my car with a manual transmission without issue. It was a 2002 candy-apple red Mustang GT with the tan rag-top in mint condition and under 40K miles. I was working at the local Ford dealer and the owner let me put it on the lot when I went to market with it. It was on the lot for over 3 months but probably because I put the "retail" price on it. I lucked out and had a guy come-in at the beginning of his mid-life crisis and I ended selling it for a bit over the highest "private party" price that I could find. So in the end he felt that he got a great deal and I was happy with the sale price. That car ended up only deprecating ~$2K over 5 years of ownership.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:19 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by IveBeenRued View Post
I am at 60K miles and still have about 60%(~11mm) of my front brake pads remaining and I don't have to worry about a clutch wearing out prematurely.
Subaru defines severe driving as:

Quote:
•have three or more cold starts a day.
•frequently drive on trips of 10 miles or less.
•periodically get stuck in stop-and-go traffic.
•drive in dusty or extreme temperature conditions.
•drive with heavy loads.
•drive in the mountains.
Never mind periodically, you're advocating a CVT for getting stuck regularly in Stop and Go traffic. Severe service on CVT should be performed every 25k miles.

With that in mind, tell me about the recommended CVT fluid replacement costs for severe driving (which what you're defending as having a CVT is better for). It's around $150 every 25k. How much is a clutch for a Subaru? Around... $800, and is usually done around the 150k mark when driven right. CVT, at 150k is... $900 for the same period. It's a wash. The only difference is the MT is a one time payment and the CVT is amortized over 6 payments. You're still paying the same amount.

Brakepads, on the other hand, are cheap. (And the wear on the pads is also minimal on the 5MT as you spend a lot of time in neutral). I've never, ever, EVER heard of a MT driver wearing down pads faster than 40-60k due to stop and go traffic.

Quote:
Also take into consideration the resale value of a manual vs CVT. In general dealers have a hard enough time moving manual tranmissions in new cars and have an even harder time pushing them in the used market because there is no real way to tell if the previous owner beat on the clutch. At the dealer that I worked at in college we would always offer well below "fair market value" on manual transmissions because we knew that it would end up going to auction and would fetch near what we paid for it.
A car as an investment is the worst rationalization to buy a car. At that, Subaru MTs are more sought after in the used market in snowy areas than automatics (as a percentage).

And we're talking Imprezas and Crosstreks here. "Beat on"? It's a car built with longevity, not performance, in mind.

Quote:
As for selling private party you will be marketing your vehicle to a smaller pool of eligible/willing drivers and, again, people have a distrust of the prior owner and will almost always come at you with a lower price because they are not sure if they are going to have to drop $800-1000 into a new clutch within 20K miles. So saving that $1000 up front may end up costing this guy several times that when it comes to trade-in or sell.
How is that my problem?

--kC
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:26 AM   #50
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Glad to hear you did well on your TDI sale. I too sold my car with a manual transmission without issue. It was a 2002 candy-apple red Mustang GT with the tan rag-top in mint condition and under 40K miles. I was working at the local Ford dealer and the owner let me put it on the lot when I went to market with it. It was on the lot for over 3 months but probably because I put the "retail" price on it. I lucked out and had a guy come-in at the beginning of his mid-life crisis and I ended selling it for a bit over the highest "private party" price that I could find. So in the end he felt that he got a great deal and I was happy with the sale price. That car ended up only deprecating ~$2K over 5 years of ownership.
Sounds like you did well.

I sold my TDI 36 hours after I posted the Craigslist ad. The buyer contacted me 8 hours after I posted the ad. The extra time was required to allow him to secure a loan, and then travel from Albany to Rochester. I picked him up at the Rochester Amtrak station; he bought a one-way ticket.

I'm sure that if he could have jumped through the phone with cash in fist, it would have sold immediately.
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