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Old 07-19-2013, 04:29 AM   #1
soccerbuff12002
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Default '12 STI Motor build, am I forgetting anything?

Ok, so right now I am deployed, and I wanted to have my engine built up while I here. My car was already stage 2 when I left (intake, down pipe, up pipe, full exhaust, and a tune). Considered selling the car while I am here in order to upgrade to a GTR but decided against it because of extremely long winters and heavy snow where I am stationed. Plus I enjoy the Subaru community.

My car currently has 33k miles and I purchased the AMS 750r turbo kit. Decided I would need to build up the motor while I am at it in order to avoid catastrophic engine failure. I want to purchase all the parts myself instead of having a shop purchase them. So far I have purchased the following:
ACL Maind and Rod bearings
ARP head studs and cometic head gaskets
Grimmspeed EBC
TGV Deletes (kept throwing a code for the OEM ones...must be clogged)
CP Pistons (8.5:1 compression 99.5mm)
Manley Rods
Darton dry sleeves(99.5mm-102mm)
GSC Dual valve spring kit w/titanium retainers
Supertech valves
GSC cams(272's)
Group n engine and trans mount
ID 1300cc+AEM E85 Fuel Pump
AMS Intercooler w/ blow through MAF

Not sure which clutch to purchase. Also I want to have a daily driving tune, a 93 octane tune since that is what is available where I live, and also an E85 tune for when I visit the DMV area. I have no experience with E85 and only know what I've read online. Should the 1300cc injectors be sufficient? What about the fuel pump?

Any input would be excellent. I purchased the car only a couple months before I left, so I haven't driven STI's too much. I went from a Roush GT to the STI and from what I can tell it is a little bit more 'finnicky'.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:05 AM   #2
Layvon
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Ditch the blow through. This is 2013 and speed density is the only way to go.

How many lb turbo is that?

ID1300s will be PERFECT. I know with the right setup those will make 600 wheel on E85 and still idle great on Pump gas. Best injector out as long as the beta testers don't have any problems... which IDs QC is pretty awesome so I wouldn't worry about.

I have the ID2000s and they are a little tough on pump gas, it idles fine but it took some work. I do not know what kind of capacity the fuel pump has but make sure to hard wire it and that it is mildly equivalent to a walbro 400/465.

I had good luck with my ACT 6PUCK sprung with the HD plate. Made 500wtq for 2500rpms and she never budged.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:24 AM   #3
soccerbuff12002
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I am not sure how many lbs the turbo will handle, however I know that it is 750hp capable with the correct supporting mods. The precision 58/58 turbo is the one AMS included in their package.

As for the clutch should I just purchase a "clutch kit" or a complete clutch...Clutch kits are a little cheaper, but if I am having a shop do it I guess it would make sense to have them swap the clutch as well. Just wondering if the complete clutches come with needed components that the kit does not come with.

Appreciate the input!
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #4
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750R kit is seriously boss, nice choice.

Only thing i'd change is the AEM fuel pump to either a surge tank, or the walbro 465. I've seen lots of failures on here with that AEM unit.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:37 AM   #5
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What's different about a daily driving tune and a pump 93 tune?
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:50 AM   #6
soccerbuff12002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
What's different about a daily driving tune and a pump 93 tune?
I would like I runs which runs low boost, and something a little more drivable. Essentially more fuel efficient if possible.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:11 AM   #7
Irv Weissmanhowerton
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one aggressive map, control boost with your foot
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:39 AM   #8
sexyyrex
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oh, I know it was mentioned by someone else, but ditch the blow through as well, we aren't in 2005 anymore. Speed Density makes for a much better tune anyway.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:57 AM   #9
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I would add fuel lines, rails and a good fuel pressure regulator.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:23 PM   #10
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I've heard that OEM head gaskets are better then the cometic head gaskets, even at a 101mm bore, may want to do some more research and decide what's best for you
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:33 PM   #11
FuJi K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv Weissmanhowerton View Post
one aggressive map, control boost with your foot
That is the right answer!


Low boost map to save fuel? No. Stay out of boost and you'll save fuel. Doesn't matter if it's low boost or high boost, everything before the turbo kicks in is the same. Tell the tuner how you want it and he'll tune it how you want.

If anything your timing map is just a tad more aggressive on e85 than your pump map if any. Boost is going to be moderate on pump gas if you want reliable. Less boost means less power, less power means less stress on components. Less stress on the components means they won't break. Don't risk trying to get every inch you can out of pump gas if it's your "safe" map.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #12
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OP, you can have them tune different levels of boost using the SI Drive controller. I have lower boost in S and then balls to the wall for S#. Then you just need to switch between tunes for E85 or pump 93 using your Cobb AP.

I'd also suggest rails, lines, and a adjustable RR FPR. I really like my aeromotive stuff.

For a clutch, I wasn't happy with the ACT clutch someone else recommended here. I've had nothing but bad experiences with them slipping. My current clutch is a little overkill (OS Giken TR2CD ) but it holds beautifully, engagement is wonderful, and stands up to being side stepped without complaining and can be rebuilt.

Also don't see why you passed on a gt-r. I drive mine in winter without incident, except when the ruts get a little silly then I switch to something with more ground clearance.

Your injector sizes will probably work beautifully. I think the 2k's might be a bit big to idle properly on pump (get a 14.7:1 afr that is)

EDIT: Also you really really want an upgraded FPR. the 11+'s have an issue with the factory dampener going all screwy in the CL/OL transition. You can help to deal with some of this by adjusting some magical compensation tables in the ECU, but you're better off just nuking the factory dampener and replacing it with something that doesn't suck.

Last edited by Alistairh; 07-19-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julozas View Post
I've heard that OEM head gaskets are better then the cometic head gaskets, even at a 101mm bore, may want to do some more research and decide what's best for you
Definitely not cometic if you love your car / motor. OEM, six star, felpro mls, or victor reinz are all good gaskets.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:19 AM   #14
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Ok so I have been in contact with IAG out of Westminster, MD and have decided to have them go ahead and perform the build while I am deployed. Still working out some of the details with Rick, but the car should be going into IAG around end of September timeframe.

I am supplying the AMS 750r turbo kit and the intercooler (without blow through) and they will get the rest of the components. Based off of Rick's recommendations the engine will be getting the following treatment:
Manley pistons+Manley I beams
ARP "age" head studs to deal with high pressure created as a result of alcohol
Kelford cams
IAG Stage V heads
As for fuel system, it will be overhauled as well using a system that is proprietary. Rick says that the 2000cc injectors would be much better than the 1300cc so I am inclined to go with the 2000cc.
Engine management will be through Cobb AP V3.

Last edited by soccerbuff12002; 07-31-2013 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerbuff12002 View Post
Ok so I have been in contact with IAG out of Westminster, MD and have decided to have them go ahead and perform the build while I am deployed. Still working out some of the details with Rick, but the car should be going into IAG around end of September timeframe.

I am supplying the AMS 750r turbo kit and the intercooler (without blow through) and they will get the rest of the components. Based off of Rick's recommendations the engine will be getting the following treatment:
Manley pistons+Manley I beams
ARP "age" head studs to deal with high pressure created as a result of alcohol
Kelford cams
IAG Stage V heads
As for fuel system, it will be overhauled as well using a system that is proprietary. Rick says that the 2000cc injectors would be much better than the 1300cc so I am inclined to go with the 2000cc.
Engine management will be through Cobb AP V3.
It is good to see you decided to let a Reputable shop do the entire build. Alot of people want to save a couple bucks (myself included) by getting all their parts together then finding a shop to assemble it. I have found if you cant do the entire build yourself, it is much easier and less liability and finger pointing if everything was done by the shop doing the work.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:59 PM   #16
Tyrial
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The 1300's should have been enough Injector for you since they are 600whp capable on E85, with a PT5858 I don't think you'll see over 500whp honestly but we'll stay tuned to see how this turns out.

That's some serious head work, are you ok with shifting your power band to 5-8k? You're going to need a fuel surge tank if you push this system really hard, I would recommend Radium Engineering.

As everyone has stated, you only need 2 maps: pump and E85. If you want good fuel economy, stay out of boost.

Also, why are you not using beehive springs with Ti retainers? It sounds like you're shooting for 25+ psi and those would work very well.

Look into Ross Tuffbond Crankshaft Dampener and pair it up with a street weight flywheel. I would also up the CR a tad (9:1) for better off-boost pep if you are concerned about gas mileage.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:29 PM   #17
soccerbuff12002
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My motor build has been completed and I have finished the break in of the motor (just reached 1k miles) I will be getting a tune on Tuesday and I will post results here.

Once I get back to my computer I will post pictures of the car. I just installed bc coil overs, and my volk te37 sl black editions as well.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:37 PM   #18
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You're gonna need some new suspension bits to handle all that extra power lol. I don't know if you mentioned it but I'd probably include launch control to scare all the kids
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:21 PM   #19
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:32 PM   #20
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Id2000 are a mistake. Take this from me who has owned both has still dynod 608who on both injectors.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:46 PM   #21
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I expect Manitou to chime in here any minute re the ID 1300 cc injectors. IIRC he was one of the first to use ID 1300's and has been preaching the gospel since. His setup is pretty serious and is a good resource.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:58 PM   #22
soccerbuff12002
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Hey guys, I went with ID 1000s and an AEM 320 pump. TurboXS did a custom parallel fuel rail system for me.

As for suspension I used BC coilovers...they had very good reviews and I wouldn't know the difference between a $3k set and the BCs as I have zero experience with coilovers until yesterday.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:14 PM   #23
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I had to take a look at my original post as there have been some changes in my build over the last 3-4 months.

I decided to ditch the sleeves...I rarely autocross...actually I never do. The shop advised against it so I went with their recommendation.

I am on the stock heads and stock valvetrain right now. I didn't see the need to upgrade them at this point. Later on this summer I will likely get a set of oem cylinder heads and send to IAG for there stage v treatment.

I ditched the blow thru MAF.

After the shop went through 2 cometic gaskets, they decided to use OEM gaskets.

I am going to the shop to do a compression test and if all is good, I will get a tune. At 500 miles the compression was 125. I am at 1100 right now so hopefully all goes well. The car doesn't look like it is burning oil at all...and I check every day in the morning and at night.
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