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Old 02-10-2014, 12:35 PM   #1
jlangholzj
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Default 2013 FSAE 57Hp/37ftlbs

Totally non-subaru related but I figured at the very least you guys would get a chuckle out of it. Friday's run was to do some final fine-tuning on the intake as well as getting a better baseline for design changes next year.

Event: dyno pull
Location: Dakota Digital, Sioux Falls SD
Ambient Temp: 76*F in shop
Elevation: 1470 MSL
Weather: winter
Tires: Hoosier r25B slicks. 20.5 OD R13

Car: 2013 South Dakota State FSAE
Tuner: Me (jlangholzj)
Dyno Info: superflow autodyn 30
Transmission: 5spd sequential
Gear: 3rd
Peak HP at RPM: 57Hp @ 9350 , corrected
Peak Torque at RPM: 37ftlbs @ 6300 , corrected
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 106HP @14,500 / 43 ftlb @ 11,500
Target Boost: n/a
Target AFR: 0.91 Lmbda
Fuel: e85 from drum to avoid e70 winter blend
Engine: 2006 Yamaha R6r
Power Modifications: decked head to 14:1 compression, custom intake, custom exhaust, Akrapovic slip on muffler
Driveline Modifications: Stock clutches, Taylor Race Engineering Quaife LSD, 4.4:1 rear gearing
Suspension Modifications: double a-arm suspension, Ohlin tx-255, cane creek springs
Other Modifications: 4130 chromoly spaceframe, full aero package (35 lbs at 30 mph), stainless floating rotors. Motec M400 ECM.




So for those of you unfamiliar with FSAE/FS its an engineering competition where students from universities design, build, race and modify an open wheel style car (basically a 1/3rd size F1 car). Ours typically will pull ~2.5G's through a corner and does 0-60 in about 4 secs. I graduated this year and came back to help show some of the younger kids a thing or two about tuning and running the ECM software as well as getting some of the map tuned in better.

Last year we picked up a SLS rapid-prototype sponsor that built us an intake for free! We used a couple different theories to help build and intake that was conductive to "resonant supercharging" This is pretty evident by the two peaks in the graph. This year they're moving it up to allow for a little later power delivery. Also, notice the restrictor on the backside of the TB!!! that's 20mm folks, or about the size of a nickle. It creates choke flow around 10,500 RPM and limits us from ever going over 100 HP. (competition rule).



The car also sports a full mil-spec harness and Deutsch Connectors for all the electrical. In-house designed PDM and dash as well. Here's a show on the dyno mid process, I've got a few more from the guys along with a video I'll post up tonight. The car itself is also essentially missing its whole front end in this picture. There's another front wing and nose attached that we took of for strapping, etc.

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Last edited by jlangholzj; 02-10-2014 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:59 PM   #2
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hell yeah this is sick
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:05 PM   #3
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Did I miss it? What kind of engine is this and what kind of displacement are you working with??
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:06 PM   #4
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I'm so jealous, I almost went to mechanical engineering school here.
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:09 PM   #5
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Did I miss it? What kind of engine is this and what kind of displacement are you working with??

ohhhhpppss....missed that....It'll be fixed here in a few secs
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by freddy121389 View Post
I'm so jealous, I almost went to mechanical engineering school here.
Don't need to be an engineer to join, so if you're still in college and interested I'd def. check it out. I've got an EE and ME and there's guys on the team that are AgE, business and Entrepreneurial. The 4 race events we participate are just a very small fraction of competition
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:17 PM   #7
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Have you guys verified that you are in fact hitting choke?

Also what did you do for tuning on the exhaust manifold? What style did you use?
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:25 PM   #8
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Have you guys verified that you are in fact hitting choke?

Also what did you do for tuning on the exhaust manifold? What style did you use?
Verification on choke is being done yet this year. Everything we've calculated points that direction but there's some work to be done on the side of volumetric efficiency yet. There's no doubt that the longer runners are hurting us on the top end with this setup and I'm expecting to see some gains yet by simply switching to a shorter runner length.

same process was used on the exhaust (pipe organ theory, resonant charging) to pick the lengths but the design on the '13 car was a 4-2-1 setup. This years car is going to be a 4-1 construction to help promote the higher RPM band.

after they get the shorter intake runners the plan is to dynotune the different setups:

1- long runners, 4-1 exhaust
2- short runners, 4-2-1 exhaust
3- short runners, 4-1 exhaust

this year we've finally got some extra guys on the team, the car you see in the pics was designed, built and tested by 6 guys (including myself) so some data hasn't been gathered yet in the interest of having a complete well running car. That should hopefully change with the addition of another 6 guys.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:51 PM   #9
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Cool car.

Question: I thought FSAE had requirements for most of the powertrain to be designed and built by the team. Maybe they have exemptions for teams just starting out? What's the story on that.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:24 PM   #10
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Cool car.

Question: I thought FSAE had requirements for most of the powertrain to be designed and built by the team. Maybe they have exemptions for teams just starting out? What's the story on that.
it was. I ran all the calcs, spent time in ricardo wave, did all the modeling and then sent it off to a company that printed the intake for us. The only "bought" parts on that car are the diff, seatbelts, dampers, steering wheel, steering rack, MC's, the r6 and the akrapovic pipe. Even those items were analyzed/calc'd for one reason or another and had a decent amount of work put into them.

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Old 02-10-2014, 09:43 PM   #11
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Our R6 cars put down ~70 to the wheels on the restrictors (one of the highest dyno'd in detroit at competition IIRC). Hell, our 450 single was making almost 50 HP.

Have you guys run that platform for a while now?
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:07 PM   #12
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Well being you guys bumped compression so high on a restricted class event, did you do a study or rod ratio vs CR and the available fuels?

We never went that high and did quite well on 93 octane. Actually found better power on a gsxr feeding it 87. Best we had on the NA 600 was 86 hp. Don't recall all the details of the various set ups from 10 years ago haha

Then I did my turbo MC22 engine on e85 and hit 84 hp and could never find my missing 2 hp from calculations.

It is tons of fun and huge growing opportunity.

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 02-10-2014 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:26 AM   #13
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Fun, thanks for sharing. I've wanted to go up to competiton to see what's out there now. I've heard single cylinder engines have gained popularity and I can definitely understand why. Agree that you seem a touch down on power though I don't feel as much as some of the others suggest. Agree that the runners appear long as well.

Should you get bored in later years, most guys drive them for fun with the restrictor removed. I've had the pleasure of driving one swapped to a 1000rr. Yes, its ridiculous over the top, but fun and still drivable...kind of.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:48 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Well being you guys bumped compression so high on a restricted class event, did you do a study or rod ratio vs CR and the available fuels?

We never went that high and did quite well on 93 octane. Actually found better power on a gsxr feeding it 87. Best we had on the NA 600 was 86 hp. Don't recall all the details of the various set ups from 10 years ago haha

Then I did my turbo MC22 engine on e85 and hit 84 hp and could never find my missing 2 hp from calculations.

It is tons of fun and huge growing opportunity.
The group that did the compression bump was before my time. At that point the guys really didn't know what they were doing and why, they just did it because someone said to I do have that on the list for the new team to accomplish though. When i was part of the team I did all of our engine/drivetrain/daq/tires and electrical so I had my hands full The important thing for me was to give us a more reliable platform.

They do have a huge opportunity for growth though and I'm super excited to see what the next 3 years is going to bring.

Also, see that big american ethanol sticker on the wing? That's there for a reason we get a pretty hefty sum from a sponsor for running e85 and I'm okay with that!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Our R6 cars put down ~70 to the wheels on the restrictors (one of the highest dyno'd in detroit at competition IIRC). Hell, our 450 single was making almost 50 HP.
Have you guys run that platform for a while now?
It's the platform we've been running for some time now. They toyed with the idea of switching to a single this year or moving to an Ape. We had a pretty high turnover this year however and the main focus was knowledge retention. I'm expecting our platform to be in the ~70hp range as well once that torque band gets moved up to where it belongs. The low torque range is great but it doesn't mesh well with that motor and it should be a bit more drivable yet moving it up some.

Quote:
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Fun, thanks for sharing. I've wanted to go up to competiton to see what's out there now. I've heard single cylinder engines have gained popularity and I can definitely understand why. Agree that you seem a touch down on power though I don't feel as much as some of the others suggest. Agree that the runners appear long as well.

Should you get bored in later years, most guys drive them for fun with the restrictor removed. I've had the pleasure of driving one swapped to a 1000rr. Yes, its ridiculous over the top, but fun and still drivable...kind of.
that would be....sort of drivable One of our old ones got the stock airbox put on it for a while and...yeah...about that. I'd really like to pick an old frame up, put some FF tires on it and use it as a hillclimb car.

We're not down on power at all. We're in the typical ~40 ftlb of torque range that everyone's hitting and it shows. That car goes like a bat out of hell. Just this winter yet they finally got traction control and our shortshifting system tuned in. Its scary.

You should swing down! You're right in that singles are the big "in thing" right now, for a reason. They're light, make power and reliable. The big kicker is making sure you're gonna pass sound and also making sure that thumper doesn't vibrate a filling loose The ticket is the Ape or another v-twin but it seems like the teams running them are having issues so nobody wants to move towards it. I didn't have time sadly to do the work to move over to one though Heck the dryweight difference between the ape and the r6r is ~40 lbs alone. we still managed to be at 430lbs with aero and a 4 banger last year though, so I'm pumped to see how much of that gets cut off this year
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:59 AM   #15
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Doesnt e85 require a 19mm restrictor?

I wouldnt worry about the compression bump, you're not going to be able to get it to knock on purpose with the restrictor. I tuned our 2 cylinder yamaha phazer engine on 93 to about the same power, couldnt get it to knock even if I tried. I cant tell you the torque number because CVT. We designed everything to make peak torque at ~7500 which is about where our restrictor choked flow, and with the CVT we could just tune it to hold that rpm. We also exploded an intake manifold once, 1/8" RP ABS with composite wrap = good, 1/4" RP abs with sealant = good, 1/8" rp abs with sealant = bad. Our program is/was such a cluster ****. My senior year was the only year we have been able to make a completed car since the mid 2000's, and then the team decided to have an alumni tune it and blow it up on the dyno like a week before leaving for competition, too high combustion temps toasted a ring. And of course this engine costs a fortune, is impossible to find, and no one knows how to rebuild them. The team now has 2 rebuilt ones, they both sound weak and the cars seem to have no zip, even when using my good tune and the same cvt.

Singles, Yale hybrid is supposedly running some 250cc single that makes 40hp stock, of course hybrid doesnt require a restrictor but that engine/tranny combo also doesnt weight anything. I forget what it is but you can lift it out of the chassis with 1 hand.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:22 PM   #16
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Wow! This is pretty sweet! Looks like a blast to drive!
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:26 PM   #17
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sweet.

i want 3
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:30 PM   #18
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sweet.

i want 3
If you run in the correct crowd you would be surprised how cheaply you can pick up one of these that "runs". I see "running" ones that arent crazy carbon tub aero monsters go for 3-5 grand once or twice a year. Or "if you know what you're doing you can make this thing 'run' for a couple grand" for about $500ish. But it is an FSAE car, so it always operates in a perpetual state of somewhat broken.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:25 PM   #19
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I asked about gasoline as you said 20mm restrictor. E85 is 19mm...As someone else also pointed out.


Damn you auto correct!!

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 02-11-2014 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:28 PM   #20
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I asked about gasoline as you said 2014 restrictor. E85 is 19mm...As someone else also pointed out.
You dont want to be the team desperately trying to mix up some 2 part epoxy to put an even 0.5mm layer on your restrictor at 4:58pm in MIS on Friday.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:41 PM   #21
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E85 is 19mm but typically I'll just explain it to people as 20 because they don't really want to hear about the differences between the ethanol and gasoline cars.....so you guys caught me red handed
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