Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday December 21, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-09-2014, 02:40 AM   #1
pet3r
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default Built motors and warranty

So i'm contemplating a whole new build. It's a mere idea, but the biggest thing for me is warranty. Now I know when you start playing you have no guarantees. I totally get that. But, I'm working with a shop that could easily be a 5 figure bill.

They will do EVERYTHING. Removal, clean, motor build, sleeves, porting, head rebuild, install, parts purchasing, break-in and tuning. From start to finish it will be in their hands.

Is it crazy to want to know if some kind of warranty should be expected by having them to 100% of every process?

I'm not asking for a forever guarantee, but, something like a 12,000 mile / 12 month guarantee. Is that just bonkers to think?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 03:21 AM   #2
I--RIDE--BIKES
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 279176
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Vehicle:
2006 Sti
SGM

Default

I would expect some kind of a limited warranty. All the work you listed would very very easily eat up 5g. That's closer to 10g build.
I--RIDE--BIKES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 06:57 AM   #3
A-man07
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 271525
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: BagEnd
Vehicle:
07 STi
424whp/382wtq GT3076

Default

Did you ask them if they have a warranty and what is covered?
A-man07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:31 PM   #4
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
I'm not asking for a forever guarantee, but, something like a 12,000 mile / 12 month guarantee. Is that just bonkers to think?
I believe IAG honors that exact warranty, it is not bonkers to expect that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by I--RIDE--BIKES View Post
All the work you listed would very very easily eat up 5g. That's closer to 10g build.
5 figure = 10k+ bro
Paul is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 05:04 PM   #5
I--RIDE--BIKES
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 279176
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Vehicle:
2006 Sti
SGM

Default

Woops read that as 5k. Too much late night forum surfing. My bad....bro
I--RIDE--BIKES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 05:52 PM   #6
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86, Meth, 272s, Cos IM

Default

IAG offers 1 year/12k warranty.

Wouldn't it suck for you to spend $10k on a built motor and it blows up on the dyno? Exactly. Go with a shop that has a warranty (even if you have to ship) or don't do it at all

whatever it costs to ship sure as hell beats building another motor

Last edited by user1029; 02-09-2014 at 06:11 PM.
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 10:10 AM   #7
pet3r
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

Ya this is easily a 10k build. Is IAG the only one that offers a limited warranty on something like this? I could save money by sourcing components myself, but then we go down the pointing fingers route if something goes wrong. Whereas if one shop does ALL of it, the only finger that can be pointed is at them.
pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 10:32 AM   #8
A-man07
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 271525
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: BagEnd
Vehicle:
07 STi
424whp/382wtq GT3076

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
Ya this is easily a 10k build. Is IAG the only one that offers a limited warranty on something like this? I could save money by sourcing components myself, but then we go down the pointing fingers route if something goes wrong. Whereas if one shop does ALL of it, the only finger that can be pointed is at them.
Yeah sort of, but even if that shop does all the assembling and tuning they don't manufacture parts so what if a rod fails or something like that? Is it the builder's fault? Not saying a reputable shop won't cover a failure but really if they didn't want to I don't think you'd have a case. To me this game has always been you pays your money and you takes your chances.
A-man07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 10:47 AM   #9
ALOKIN
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 348177
Join Date: Feb 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: TX
Vehicle:
2013 WRX STI Limited
476whp on teh moonshine

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
Ya this is easily a 10k build. Is IAG the only one that offers a limited warranty on something like this? I could save money by sourcing components myself, but then we go down the pointing fingers route if something goes wrong. Whereas if one shop does ALL of it, the only finger that can be pointed is at them.
Yeah but what will all of this buy you? 12 months of supposed warranty that 7 out of 10 times youll need an attourney to exercise ($$$). Ie the shop blames said rod mfr and tells you to pound sand.

Risk of esploding ur motor is the nature of high hp subaru builds...
ALOKIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 11:28 AM   #10
300zxturboftw
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 325461
Join Date: Jul 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
WRB Rotated 35r

Default

If you are spending that type of money on a build use someone who at least stands by their work and will make it right if something goes wrong (I'm talking about researching the shop and finding personal experiences of this rather than their word). Whether a rod goes, a bearing spins or the valves smash into the pistons due to timing belt failure it's all going to come down to what you were doing at the time of failure and whether the people who built it have compassion/take responsibility.

If you are an idiot and turn up the boost super high and detonate then I wouldn't feel bad at all if I was the builder. If you were driving the car normally and a bearing spun out of no where that's an assumption that something went wrong in the build process. I recently had a bearing go 1k miles into my new build (cruising on the highway at 3k rpm). Pulled the motor, took it back to the places they broke apart everything and we couldn't find the issue. I thought I was **** out of luck and would just have to pay for all the work again. I bought another grand worth of new parts (crank/oil pump/oil cooler/head gaskets/bearings/pick up/etc..) and picked up the engine with a total of $0 in labor. The guy had compassion and I guarantee they built the thing right the first time...freak accidents happen and you should use places that stand by their ****.
300zxturboftw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 11:38 AM   #11
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

If you're asking the shop to design and spec the complete build, (which by the way is the only way that Element tuning is selling their closed deck long blocks) then from a legal standpoint they have to stand behind the complete build and all the components when they offer a warranty.

I think I've stated this before regarding what you can control on a project and a build like what you're talking about here. There are three main parameters to a project and you can chose two. They are:

1. Design
2. Timeline
3. Budget

The point I'm trying to make is if you expect to have a turnkey warranty on a build then you really have to trust the shop to have full control and produce a turnkey product that they can stand behind.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 11:41 AM   #12
WRXt4cy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172698
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Moines, IA
Vehicle:
11 STi BW 8374 E85
02 v8 Spec C E85

Default

The problem with a warranty on a built motor is what A-man07 said, no shop can warranty all the various parts that go into a build and they cannot warranty environmental factors either. Its easy to offer an warranty on the build itself as that is pretty straightforward and easy for a good shop to do. The motor is either going to start and run or its not if there is a build issue. If it seizes up within the first 5 minutes, its going to very easy to warranty it most likely. By the time you have a few hundred miles on the motor and its getting to the point of being broken in, your "build warranty" is pretty much over IMO. There are just so many things that can take out a motor. Lean conditions, knock, debris in the oil, rods not holding the torque they supposedly can, etc. A shop can't afford to warranty to your motor and beyond the point of start-up, its pretty hard to blame the build itself when something fails. Of course, every once in a while, a motor fails in a way where it is possible to blame the build but its not common. I am very happy to see a lot more shops are helping people out when motors go bad. I see some of them offering parts at cost and even throwing in or heavily discounting the labor on a re-build. That's stand-up service right there and is much better than nothing if a motor fails.
WRXt4cy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 01:27 PM   #13
Stealth1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 164358
Join Date: Nov 2007
Default

While warranty is helpful, even if it's given it doesn't mean you can go out and abuse the engine and expect the shop to fix your blown motor for free. A part failure should be fixed by the shop at a very reduced labour rate and maybe cost on parts. A failiure due to incorrect clearances or something would have to be proven beyond a doubt.
Stealth1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 05:48 PM   #14
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

I don't know man race engines that come with a warranty, beyond start-up. You buy a Cosworth engines, the warranty is over the second you open the box. Does that mean they make bad engines?
KillerBMotorsport is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 06:15 PM   #15
renosubby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152576
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Reno, NV
Vehicle:
2006 STI 10.8@ 129
www.Mayhemtuning.com

Default

I agree. If a motor fails on start up it should be fixed for free. If the shop does all the work.
renosubby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 09:25 PM   #16
Unabomber
Big Ron
Moderator
 
Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:
on car parts so PM
me b4 j00 buy

Default

The ONLY way you will ever get a warranty on a built motor is by sending it to a shop that gets to own it for a month or two to do the build, break it in, and then tune it. That's it. No and then. ZERO shops will warranty the build then have your break it in and Joe Cockgobbler tune it.
Unabomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 09:57 PM   #17
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I don't know man race engines that come with a warranty, beyond start-up. You buy a Cosworth engines, the warranty is over the second you open the box. Does that mean they make bad engines?
Proline...
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 10:03 PM   #18
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
The ONLY way you will ever get a warranty on a built motor is by sending it to a shop that gets to own it for a month or two to do the build, break it in, and then tune it. That's it. No and then. ZERO shops will warranty the build then have your break it in and Joe Cockgobbler tune it.
Is there an echo in here? Haha JK! This is along the same lines as what I was saying. Who knows what a warranty would really entail on a race motor/ build but to have any warranty you have to pretty much give control to that shop. You can set some goals but that's about it really, then it's the shops baby!
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 10:54 PM   #19
spoolinsti05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
2005 TickingTimeBomb
Jr tuned TT Sleeved

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
Yeah sort of, but even if that shop does all the assembling and tuning they don't manufacture parts so what if a rod fails or something like that? Is it the builder's fault? Not saying a reputable shop won't cover a failure but really if they didn't want to I don't think you'd have a case. To me this game has always been you pays your money and you takes your chances.
Winner!
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 10:55 PM   #20
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86, Meth, 272s, Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
The ONLY way you will ever get a warranty on a built motor is by sending it to IAG that gets to own it for 2 weeks, dyno break it in for 2 hours, and then tune it. That's it. No and then. ZERO shops will warranty the build then have your break it in and Joe Cockgobbler tune it.
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 11:19 PM   #21
ALOKIN
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 348177
Join Date: Feb 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: TX
Vehicle:
2013 WRX STI Limited
476whp on teh moonshine

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
and Joe Cockgobbler tune it.
Dat name...lololol
ALOKIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 12:23 AM   #22
IAG Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 158123
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: www.iagperformance.com
Default

We do in fact offer a 12 month or 12,000 mile warranty. This covers all hard parts as well as the workmanship. That being said, if you have a motor failure from something out of our control, ie: fuel pump failure, bad injector, fpr signal line coming off, turbo failure, bad tune, and so on.....we obviously wouldn't honor the warranty. The warranty is against any new hard part we sell you as well as the workmanship of the assembly. For any clarification, feel free to pm us.
IAG Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 12:08 AM   #23
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

Forman warranties motors as long as it is tuned by shawn church or I think Yimi
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.