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Old 02-11-2014, 01:13 AM   #26
outfrontmotorsports
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Originally Posted by cowboy_Rob View Post
Cranking with the filter off seems counterproductive to me. With no filter your only priming the pickup tube and pump. Meanwhile your using up the assembly lube. Put everything together lines and all. Start it and let it idle. You should have assembly lube everywhere anyway. Everytime you change the oil the engine starts with no pressure and only normal oil film on the bearings. Unless your going through the same process pulling plugs everytime you change the oil it seems to me your overthinking it
This "is" the only reason the engine is not getting oil pressure--because the pump is "too dry" to suck oil up the tube and to push air past the filter. Once the pump is primed, it will be primed forever. that's why on subsequent oil changes, there is never a priming issue. having the filter off the "very first time" is indeed---Productive after oil has arrived at the filter pad, the motor will prime in just a few more seconds.

to respond to another post, even if the filter was installed dry at this moment it might only take 2-3 seconds more to fill it too.

hope this helps

Outfront
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:20 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
'

No creative way to do a video however, pressurizing the crankcase is very effective. you're thinking too hard about pressure on the ins and the outs. to have air go past bearings and crank journals with .001-.002" with assembly lube isn't anything compared to 5psi of crankcase pressure pushing oil up an open 3/4" tube. this way will always work and work fast. 40 psi is way too high and could lead to blowing seals out.
Outfront
Well I've got a motor that will be ready for startup in a few weeks. Have you got some procedure or steps to follow that works best?
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:25 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Well I've got a motor that will be ready for startup in a few weeks. Have you got some procedure or steps to follow that works best?
yes, #1 prime the pump, now that I could do a simple video of that
#2 remove oil filter, disable engine (like pull the crank sensor wire )and crank
it will only take 3-10 seconds to get oil out at the filter pad. Note: pulling sparkplugs is a plus but with everything happening as it "should" no real need to.
#3 install oil filter and crank until oil light goes out should be 10 sec or so
#4 connect crank sensor, start motor!

the "air in the crankcase" method is only a last resort and is for those who have not done a good job at priming their pump.

filling the oil filter on a brand new startup is a bad idea until the oil pump has seen oil first.

Outfront
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:54 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
yes, #1 prime the pump, now that I could do a simple video of that
#2 remove oil filter, disable engine (like pull the crank sensor wire )and crank
it will only take 3-10 seconds to get oil out at the filter pad. Note: pulling sparkplugs is a plus but with everything happening as it "should" no real need to.
#3 install oil filter and crank until oil light goes out should be 10 sec or so
#4 connect crank sensor, start motor!

the "air in the crankcase" method is only a last resort and is for those who have not done a good job at priming their pump.

filling the oil filter on a brand new startup is a bad idea until the oil pump has seen oil first.

Outfront
Please consider this post as a request for a video of #1!

Thank you in advance.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:54 AM   #30
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OK... I'm well versed with the cranking method. It's the air pressure method I'm interested in trying. If the system can be FULLY primed without cranking that would be cool.

I figure some rubber stoppers for the PCV and turbo oil drain. Tap a spare filler cap with NPT so I can put an air line on it. Then apply air pressure. What else is missing or what else do you recommend to make this work well?
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:06 AM   #31
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Another method I'm curious about:
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:08 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
OK... I'm well versed with the cranking method. It's the air pressure method I'm interested in trying. If the system can be FULLY primed without cranking that would be cool.
I figure some rubber stoppers for the PCV and turbo oil drain. Tap a spare filler cap with NPT so I can put an air line on it. Then apply air pressure. What else is missing or what else do you recommend to make this work well?
Oh, o.k.
So I would block off or pinch the main engine breather and the valve cover breathers. simply using some heater hose you can fold them over and connect both ports to one another (sTi) I would put the rubber tipped air hose down the dipstick and use your hand on the oil filler. your hand will be the pressure relief valve as to not put too much air in the crankcase. while applying pressure...crank motor. this method is to only prime the pump. it is not and will not push oil through the whole motor without cranking let alone past the rotors in the pump.

I will make a video of this method and "inspection/priming" of a pump prior to installation on a motor today.

Last edited by outfrontmotorsports; 02-11-2014 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:10 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
OK... I'm well versed with the cranking method. It's the air pressure method I'm interested in trying. If the system can be FULLY primed without cranking that would be cool.

I figure some rubber stoppers for the PCV and turbo oil drain. Tap a spare filler cap with NPT so I can put an air line on it. Then apply air pressure. What else is missing or what else do you recommend to make this work well?
The guys at outfront probably have a better answer. My little experience, no need for rubber stoppers. Block the head breather that goes in the inlet, a 3/8 extension fits perfectly. Then push air over the inlet part of the PCV system if I remember correctly. You'll have to crank, it's just that the air will reduce the time required to get the oil in the system.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:12 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by smoky View Post
Another method I'm curious about:
This method is not useful in priming the pump. sure it will get oil to all the critical areas except it wont get oil to the pump. The oil filter has abuilt in check valve (anti drain) to allow oil only to go the right way.

If you could put on an oil filter that had no anti drain, like a gutted oil filter or using a remote oil filter assembly with the hoses connected to each other, then it would work

Outfront
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:18 AM   #35
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Big tx to outfront for sharing their technique!
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:49 AM   #36
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If you guys are this crazy about it why not purchase an accusump and prime the motor that way...you would just have to make sure it only has a one way valve on it so no contaminants get in the accusump.

I just unplugged crank sensor, spark plugs still in, and cranked for 10 seconds where i saw 7 psi and rising. Started the motor and no problems.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:42 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
This method is not useful in priming the pump. sure it will get oil to all the critical areas except it wont get oil to the pump. The oil filter has abuilt in check valve (anti drain) to allow oil only to go the right way. If you could put on an oil filter that had no anti drain, like a gutted oil filter or using a remote oil filter assembly with the hoses connected to each other, then it would work Outfront
The pureone filters for the wrx do not have antidrain back valves...
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:28 PM   #38
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in the next few days we will put up another small video on the "last alternative" oil pump priming method for Chris

Outfront

Last edited by outfrontmotorsports; 02-11-2014 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
OK... I'm well versed with the cranking method. It's the air pressure method I'm interested in trying. If the system can be FULLY primed without cranking that would be cool. I figure some rubber stoppers for the PCV and turbo oil drain. Tap a spare filler cap with NPT so I can put an air line on it. Then apply air pressure. What else is missing or what else do you recommend to make this work well?

Glad to see people pay attention and consider some things I post. Then again I'm sure all do LoL they just keep quite.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
This method is not useful in priming the pump. sure it will get oil to all the critical areas except it wont get oil to the pump. The oil filter has abuilt in check valve (anti drain) to allow oil only to go the right way. If you could put on an oil filter that had no anti drain, like a gutted oil filter or using a remote oil filter assembly with the hoses connected to each other, then it would work Outfront
Actually you're fairly close missing a step though!
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
http://youtu.be/W64YalCbytY

in the next few days we will put up another small video on the "last alternative" oil pump priming method for Chris

Outfront
This makes sense. Thanks for posting this I had actually put some assembly grease/lube in the rotor in my oil pump so that explains mostly why I got oil pressure so fast. I probably would of gotten it even sooner if I had left the oil filter empty.. lol
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:05 PM   #42
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An issue I am having at the moment is regarding my oil dipstick. 1 side reads L and the other side reads almost at the F. I have pulled it out and checked 10 times in a row. They are all reading like this. The side with the letters is getting a long skid mark of oil.

Has anyone had this issue before?
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:54 AM   #43
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Ignore any oil on the edges, that's just from the dipstick dragging against the inside of the dipstick tube. Always 'read' the side with the indicators on it. The dipstick goes into the oil at a steep angle, which is why one side is more/less than the other.
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:35 PM   #44
emsmap
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Thank u for the info
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:30 PM   #45
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I did start a fresh new build engine today. Pump was pre lube to help get oil pressure. No spark plug and the ign fuse removed to avoid getting fuel in the cylinders.

With no oil filter took 2 x 10s crank to get a continuous flow out of it.

Then installed the oil filter and it took 3 x 10s crank to get around 15 psi in the system.

Reinstalled everything and the car started with less than 1s cranking, almost instant oil pressure.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:50 PM   #46
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This thread is very helpful. Quick question to the experts. I am in the middle.of a 6 speed swap on an 05 fxt with an ej255. I pulled the motor because I bought it at 150k miles and it had never had a timing belt job, new clutch, or plugs. I put on all new pulleys, water pump, timing belt, and 11mm oil pump, all of the killer b oil stuff and a 16g turbo, and a new clutch and flywheel.

I couldn't get the back of the oil pump open and installed it without pre - lubricating it. So new turbo and oil pump that hasn't been pre primed. The new spark plugs aren't in it yet and it is still on my engine stand. Upon reinstallation, I've gathered that I should remove the oil filter (fuel relay already disconnected in cabin), maybe unplug the crank sensor and do 15 second cranks until I see oil coming thru the oil filter hole, then put the filter on, and look for oil coming out of the oil feed line on top of the turbo???

I'm concerned both about getting oil to all parts necessary as well as not having Oil pour out onto the turbo or head. Any clarification or corrections would be appreciated as I've not done this before and want to do It right the first time. The engine has been on my stand for a month with the timing all set and I've rotated it with a crank tool every day a few times as I've been advised.

Last edited by uglybetty; 04-20-2014 at 06:56 PM.
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