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Old 12-26-2013, 11:29 PM   #2026
reid-o
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I've found that most rotated setups are easier to install and then easier to work on.
Not so much if you have to cram the tmic on though unless the center comes perfectly pre clocked.

Mbc ewg ftw but we don't really have changes in weather here.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:28 AM   #2027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
now you have


That's a nice looking setup - which one is that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I don't agree with either of these....especially the easier part. IMO installing a rotated kit is exponentially easier on turbos with 3" inlets because you don't have to mess with the turbo inlet hose fitment.
Ok, I'll give you that one. The 3" inlet is a bitch to get in there. I was also referring to the custom work it seems to take to fit a rotated kit. I don't speak from personal experience though; I'm going off what friends and local guys have said about installing various rotated setups. I haven't joined the rotated crowd yet but will be sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
As for the cheaper part...that all depends on what kit and what turbo you get....a perrin rotated gt30 kit is $3300 a stock location ATP gt30 is $2000 by itself plus you need a DP, intake, turbo inlet....so in the end the difference is only a couple hundred.

The price difference simply isn't what people make it out to be. UNLESS you already have paid for a SL dp and up, then your cost will be higher since you have to repurchase, but going straight from stock to rotated the price is not significantly higher than building a big SL setup. And for the price of going rotated you open yourself up to a whole host of non-frankensteined turbos, turbine housing options, and twin scroll.
Agreed on the cost of stock -> rotated vs stock -> SL but that's not a very common case (at least in my area). Most guys have already upgraded their DP, headers, etc and so by the time they are thinking about a turbo upgrade, SL becomes quite a bit cheaper.

Perhaps a lot of it is just people being misinformed on how straight-forward it can be to go rotated now. Case-in-point being my perception that there isn't a good, well priced rotated piping kit on the market that would work well for the masses.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:31 PM   #2028
alfriedesq
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Well GOD is great

I am fighting a war here and it is amazing how it goes

I am trying to source parts for APS a now closed company

Look what I found from Trindad - thank Jesus





We can see that the previous version APS adapter header to upipe unit used a 1.75 " external dimension pipe which actually necked down to less than 1.60 " in some spots which I was not feeling



The new pipe - brand new - production 8/15/2006 - which I purchased from Trinidad was revised by APS with a flex section in the uppipe which is going to make installing the big stock location turbo easier and also it is 2.0" pipe material - thank Jesus and is a 1.86 " ID on the inside !



Patience is a virture
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:42 PM   #2029
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How you find something like that (exhaust), from another country, at the end of 2013 and it still has the sticker in contact and easily read, OMG (pun intended).

Nice find.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:45 PM   #2030
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I don't agree with either of these....especially the easier part. IMO installing a rotated kit is exponentially easier on turbos with 3" inlets because you don't have to mess with the turbo inlet hose fitment.

As for the cheaper part...that all depends on what kit and what turbo you get....a perrin rotated gt30 kit is $3300 a stock location ATP gt30 is $2000 by itself plus you need a DP, intake, turbo inlet....so in the end the difference is only a couple hundred.

The price difference simply isn't what people make it out to be. UNLESS you already have paid for a SL dp and up, then your cost will be higher since you have to repurchase, but going straight from stock to rotated the price is not significantly higher than building a big SL setup. And for the price of going rotated you open yourself up to a whole host of non-frankensteined turbos, turbine housing options, and twin scroll.
From my perspective I prefer a stock location because for example the brackets which hold down the turbo are vastly superior and will have more reliability over the long term.

I am not knocking the Perrin Kit because I love Perrin Products - I recommend them

But for me the price is no object

I am looking to put together the BEST set up that I can make - period

The stock location has a lot of advantages which get overlooked when we start modifying everything

I am weighing all the pros and cons - plusses and minuses and balancing everything and this is what I come up with as being the best solution for a street driven Subaru that you need to drive every day that is not a science project that I am going to play with every day but rather something I am going to tune once and then drive every day for at least a year or so and forget it and have a lot of fun

Take into consideration that I am taking a 700 whp rotated kit OFF my car

WHY am I taking the rotated kit off my car ?

My goals are LESS power (about 450 whp on pump)

My goals are a power band that comes on lower in the power band

My goals are a car that is safer to drive

My goals are a car which is more reliable with less parts breaking due to extreme power levels

My goals are a car which is more like a OEM stock car to drive

My goals are a car which is more fun to drive

Finally my goals are a car which I can use to take a good looking woman out on a date without having to make excuses for vapors and smells coming into the car, strange sounds and other familiar side effects of having a 700 whp street "car" which I no longer am interested in having

Last edited by alfriedesq; 12-30-2013 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:23 PM   #2031
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love the last "goal" haha.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:48 PM   #2032
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I just don't agree that stock location is the answer to most of those goals.

just because a turbo is rotated doesn't mean you have to go balls out on the power. the rotated variant of the gtx30 will spool faster and make more power on less boost, lower turbine/compressor speeds, lower egts, etc. There is nothing about stock location that provides a better powerband or more reliable car.

and as far as the smells, vapors and sounds......why did you get an ext wg turbine housing then?
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:59 PM   #2033
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I must agree^^^^^

If you want a car to pickup prospective women in it wouldn't be a riced Subaru.

My wife won't even ride in my car....but that doesn't matter as it is a play toy for the weekends.

I would get rid of the external gate and throw a couple resonators on with a Whisper exhaust. It would make it a little more family friendly
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:18 PM   #2034
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I have to agree with you Al. You get older and drivability and reliability come into the picture more then when you were younger. I was rotated and now I'm going back to stock location with lower power goals. It's all personal preference. Good luck with your new build, I'm sure it will be a blast to drive on the street.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:32 PM   #2035
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i hate the internet....good work AL...do what you want...dont have to explain anything to anyone....look at all the **** you have done for the community over the years.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:44 PM   #2036
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If you want a car to pickup prospective women in it wouldn't be a riced Subaru.
I have 3 cars

I don't need a car to pick up woman in because thankfully God has blessed me in other areas.

I have had my Subaru STI (before that I had the bug eye) for 7 years now and it has 31,000 miles so I guess I don't use it too much anyway.

Frankly, in the last few years when it was making 700 whp I was kind of embarrassed to take a woman out to dinner with it so I would take them out with my old Mercedes instead. Most of them who I would take for a ride with the Subaru would probably **** in their pants if I boosted it anyway. Frankly it wasn't much of a turn on to any of them.

I want to be clear that I do not build cars to impress woman.

But I like to have sex with woman and if you want to do that you need to transport them around and you need a car.

I still remember the State Trooper who pulled me over on the 4th of July doing 100 mph and when he saw me his exact words when he saw me were "How old are you?" Thank God I was able to talk myself out of that ticket and keep my clean driving record. But the reality is that I am starting to think that THERE IS MORE THINGS TO THINK ABOUT WHEN BUILDING A CAR THAN JUST THE MAXIMUM AMNOUNT OF POWER. I AM THINKING THAT I PROBABLY NEVER WOULD HAVE SAID THAT 5 years ago.

Also, 5 years ago I would have kept on scaring girls to death with the 700 whp Subaru just to see the look on their face. Now I have the intelligence to at least try and sleep with them a few times and then I will unlesh the 450 whp version on them.

When I want to drive my Subaru I don't want it to be a car which is idling rough, hard to start, staling out, smells, making strange sounds and in the case of some of the cars I have seen around here going up in flames (literally burning to the ground) that is why I do not use header wrap

My OBJECTIVE here is to create a Subaru which runs almost 90% like a stock Subaru in every respect. The idle, the start up, the smell, the feel. Only difference is that it will have 450 whp on pump gas and it will spool up at around 4,000 or so rpms.

I may be crazy - BUT - let me say this. I am still driving a SUBARU ! Many of my peers who where in the so called "business" of doing this for money - (I left it) drive Skylines. I think they all drive Skylines. I will always drive a Subaru. I was driving a Subaru before more of these guys knew what a boost controller was. I was tuning Subarus before many of them had a driver's license. I continue. This is a calling for love. I do it because it is in my blood. I love the sound of a Subaru. Subaru forever
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:53 PM   #2037
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Well said

I'm not sure how much you've kept up with the software since your hiatus but you should check out an AP. There are now idle airflow tables, idle recovery, small injector pulse width and very large ve table that allow to rid the cars of most of the issues caused by cams, headwork and large injectors. Lots of great advancements in the last couple years.

Last edited by Phatron; 12-30-2013 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:12 PM   #2038
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The only part that I agree is that my wife hates my car . She thinks is too loud, rides too harsh etc etc.

That's why I want to get something more civil like Switzer GTR
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:22 PM   #2039
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Well said

I'm not sure how much you've kept up with the software since your hiatus but you should check out an AP. There are now idle airflow tables, idle recovery, small injector pulse width and very large ve table that allow to rid the cars of most of the issues caused by cams, headwork and large injectors. Lots of great advancements in the last couple years.
I did a couple of cars with RACE ROM and they were simply amazing both were in the 500 whp range. The speed density really was a transformational advancement. There is no doubt that the stock ecu is the way to go.

I am done with the 700 whp stuff for now I hope. I really hope so. I am praying that I am.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:28 PM   #2040
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The only part that I agree is that my wife hates my car . She thinks is too loud, rides too harsh etc etc.

That's why I want to get something more civil like Switzer GTR
Wait till you see my next You Tube video. I have been building this motor in my kitchen and my girl friend is starting to get on my ass about when the kitchen is going to be available again. I have my turbo and my TGV's being stored in the oven. She is so good looking but I hate to say it but the Subaru comes first. So she better get used to it. She asked me "Baby how much longer do you think you are going to be working on your motor?" I told her - "Forever is a mighty long time"
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:48 AM   #2041
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Originally Posted by alfriedesq View Post
Wait till you see my next You Tube video. I have been building this motor in my kitchen and my girl friend is starting to get on my ass about when the kitchen is going to be available again. I have my turbo and my TGV's being stored in the oven. She is so good looking but I hate to say it but the Subaru comes first. So she better get used to it. She asked me "Baby how much longer do you think you are going to be working on your motor?" I told her - "Forever is a mighty long time"
haha love your thinking
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:41 PM   #2042
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I have been saying it all along - if you want a good running Subaru you must pay attention to the details. I have been sweating this detail for some time.

Finally - I have the perfect - header / uppipe combo that I want for the power I am going to make

Not to mention something that has a really good uppipe to header flange that will never leak and is a real solid mount that uses the stock brackets to support the turbo - NOT using the read hot exhaust pipes to support the turbo which in the long term leads to header cracks and all sorts of problems

Also - this flex in the uppipe gives me all the flexability I need to get the perfect fit on the 3" turbo inlet











What were the odds of finding one of these units brand new in 2013 when it was made in 08/15/2006?

And of course the wonderful APS heat shield




Now I am just waiting for the turbine housing to come back from being ceramic coated and it should be ready to all come together
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:43 PM   #2043
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This ceramic coating is not the best looking color in the world but I can attest after many years it is the longest lasting and most durable heat resistant I have ever found

G Force in Bridgeport, CT is the source they usually turn it around in a couple of days - highly recommended

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Old 01-07-2014, 06:47 PM   #2044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfriedesq View Post
What were the odds of finding one of these units brand new in 2013 when it was made in 08/15/2006?
That's how I felt when ditched my old turbo from the perrin v1 2.5" @ the hotside/downpipe for an inch or so, I still had the kit and then re-purchased 2/3 the turbo, I called Chris @ perrin, who helped me out before with some things, they actually ahd a brand new (from 05-06) v1 2.5" style hotside for my garrett .82 30r
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:08 PM   #2045
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congrats brother
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:16 AM   #2046
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Honestly Al, I have to admire the direction you are going. My wagon made 400 whp with a bunch of thrown together parts for the most part, and it was one of the most fun vehicles I have ever owned. (That is saying a lot considering the number of vehicles I have owned) I can't wait to see updates.

BTW, if you still have that clutch for sale, pm me.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:28 PM   #2047
reid-o
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Those welds on the header and up up pipe look autogenous fusion welded with no filler. I could be wrong, but that would explain some of the cracking issues if they typically crack at the welds.
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:21 PM   #2048
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Updates?
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:47 PM   #2049
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updates????
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:53 PM   #2050
BroBroBroBroBro
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it blew up already...jk!!
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