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Old 06-18-2014, 01:50 AM   #1
A W
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Default Automakers Won't Abandon Traditional Ignition Key, Despite GM's Recall Woes

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/auto...call-woes.html

Quote:
...The feature is popular because it eliminates the hassle of searching for the ignition key. Toyota Division spokesman Sam Butto said the technology is "purely a convenience feature."
For the Scion, Toyota and Lexus brands combined, 23 out of 31 2014 models offer keyless ignition either as a standard or optional feature. The technology is standard on all 2014 Lexus models.
Butto added that the technology "is substantially more expensive than an ignition with a traditional key."
However, neither Toyota nor any of the automakers contacted would provide a cost estimate.
"We heard the cost is anywhere from $75 to $125 a vehicle," said Dave Sullivan, manager of product analysis, AutoPacific Inc., a research and marketing firm. "So I really don't expect the entire industry to be 100 percent keyless in the next five to 10 years."
At Kia, the technology is standard on two models, the 2015 Kia K900 and Cadenza, and available on six other 2014 models.
Kia spokesman James Hope said convenience is the main reason buyers want keyless ignition. But Hope said another reason is styling.
"A push-button start has a more polished, cleaner image than a key slot," he said...
I haven't had a chance to use one extensively but I'd like to know more about the emergency backup keys stored in the fobs and how much more it is (to the customer) to replace the keyless fobs compared to the the normal ignition keys Subaru uses.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:19 AM   #2
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I find it mildly irritating every time I get a car with one.

but it's something I'd quickly get used to.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:45 AM   #3
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I have a key slot WITH a push button start.

--kC
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
I have a key slot WITH a push button start.

--kC


I have a slot and push button, but at least my car came with the convenience package. No need to insert key.

I would still trade it for a traditional key ignition. Its the same thing with the electronic throttle body. It just doesn't have the same feeling as a mechanical one.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:03 AM   #5
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I have to say, just having a button to start is a nice feature. Combine that with the having those touch sensitive outside door handles you can just walk up to your car open it and start it, without ever needing to touch your key.

I was a bit slow to accept it, but it really does accomplish the goal of making the driving experience that much more special.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:20 AM   #6
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without inserting something to start the car, it feels weird, like I'm stealing the car or something.

It's all what you're used to though. Drive a car with key-less ignition for a while and a keyed ignition probably feels archaic. As does driving a manual, but I'll buy one as long as their available. All about personal preference.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
I have a key slot WITH a push button start.

--kC
They did that so you can start the car while putting it into gear after you spin out and stall it at a track they were very thorough with their design.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:12 PM   #8
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All this is well and good until some manufacturer cuts costs on their keyless system (where the components are most likely made and tested in China and Mexico) and the system randomly stalls the car and someone dies.

There is nothing inherently unsafe about traditional ignition key systems. Unless you use cheap components, ignore engineer warnings that it could cause a problem, and then try to cover it up once people start getting hurt/dying.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/auto...call-woes.html


I haven't had a chance to use one extensively but I'd like to know more about the emergency backup keys stored in the fobs and how much more it is (to the customer) to replace the keyless fobs compared to the the normal ignition keys Subaru uses.
They are all over the board.

KIA is ~ $200 for the keyless fob and $35 for the key (2014 Cadenza) vs a Soul with the "switchblade" key @ ~ $350. Or a basic chipped key for $65.

Mitsubishi OTOH start at ~ $400 for a keyless fob.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I have to say, just having a button to start is a nice feature. Combine that with the having those touch sensitive outside door handles you can just walk up to your car open it and start it, without ever needing to touch your key.

I was a bit slow to accept it, but it really does accomplish the goal of making the driving experience that much more special.


Everything you've described has absolutely nothing to do with "the driving experience."

Ownership experience, sure. But driving experience? Not a chance.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:25 PM   #11
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Why do you need a key ignition OR a push button? Why doesn't the car just work when you get in? These guys have their heads in the sand.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:40 PM   #12
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Why do you need a key ignition OR a push button? Why doesn't the car just work when you get in? These guys have their heads in the sand.
My old Ford Aerostar had keyless starting. The ignition was so worn I could turn it by hand without a key
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:15 PM   #13
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Everything you've described has absolutely nothing to do with "the driving experience."

Ownership experience, sure. But driving experience? Not a chance.
Well the driving experience is part of the owners experience is it not?
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:18 PM   #14
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Why do you need a key ignition OR a push button? Why doesn't the car just work when you get in? These guys have their heads in the sand.
Tesla fanboi alert!

Anyway, back to the keyless bit, my wife's old Prius and current LEAF have keyless/push button setups. I dig it. It's convenient to never have to take one's key out of the jacket pocket.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:23 AM   #15
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Well the driving experience is part of the owners experience is it not?
That depends on the vehicle and where an individual owner's priorities lie. Some rigs are flatliners to drive but easy to own. Others are fun to drive and lousy to own.

"The driving experience" begins after you start the car. How you start the car is irrelevant (notwithstanding recalled GM models).

Last edited by Spenk; 06-19-2014 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:35 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Spenk View Post


Everything you've described has absolutely nothing to do with "the driving experience."

Ownership experience, sure. But driving experience? Not a chance.
It definitely is. No keys poking on your legs and dangling all over the place
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:30 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
That depends on the vehicle and where an individual owner's priorities lie. Some rigs are flatliners to drive but easy to own. Others are fun to drive and lousy to own.

"The driving experience" begins after you start the car. How you start the car is irrelevant (notwithstanding recalled GM models).
Meh, not worth aruging over. high five.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:45 AM   #18
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Meh, not worth aruging over. high five.
Got to agree, except there is no experience without opening the door!
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:29 AM   #19
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I love the push button start on my FoST. I never take the key out of my pocket.

When I get out of the car, I simply press the lock button on the door handle and walk away.
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:35 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I have to say, just having a button to start is a nice feature. Combine that with the having those touch sensitive outside door handles you can just walk up to your car open it and start it, without ever needing to touch your key.

I was a bit slow to accept it, but it really does accomplish the goal of making the driving experience that much more special.
100% agree. I know you're very analog and resist these eletrical "enhancements" and I thought they were useless too, but since getting my Focus ST with the same features, I'm always frazzled when I have to dig into my pocket for the keys to manually unlock a car and start it. It's such a convenience! I'll concede publicly that I was wrong about keyless entry and push button start.

"You mean you have to use your hands?"

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Old 06-20-2014, 09:02 AM   #21
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The story seems to miss the intermediate option of a "key" using NFC, like the fob many of us have for parking garages. Rather than a key slot above one's knee which can get bumped, it could be placed in a dedicated cubby on the console. Not as convenient as leaving it in your pocket, but I suspect even cheaper than a traditional key. Most keys include the NFC these days any way, why have the metal tumblers at all?
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Old 06-20-2014, 11:07 AM   #22
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The story seems to miss the intermediate option of a "key" using NFC, like the fob many of us have for parking garages. Rather than a key slot above one's knee which can get bumped, it could be placed in a dedicated cubby on the console. Not as convenient as leaving it in your pocket, but I suspect even cheaper than a traditional key. Most keys include the NFC these days any way, why have the metal tumblers at all?
A traditional tumbler keyset can be repaired by a competent locksmith. What happens in 15 or 20 years when when the electronic key module fails, the part is obsolete and the dealer no longer has the systems to program such old things? Your car needs to be replaced. With a traditional key you pull the ignition assembly and a locksmith replaces the worn tumblers. I can have locks repaired for any old car, modern keyless cars? Good luck, especially with how quickly technlogy changes.
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Old 06-20-2014, 11:12 AM   #23
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I like having a physical key to use. I've driven button start cars and it was blindingly difficult to figure out how to just have it in the "ACC" position to listen to the radio or do some quick work without turning the car on. I do like having the NFC for the door locks though. It's nice to not have to fish for keys or a fob button if the weather was bad.
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Old 06-20-2014, 01:35 PM   #24
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A traditional tumbler keyset can be repaired by a competent locksmith. What happens in 15 or 20 years when when the electronic key module fails, the part is obsolete and the dealer no longer has the systems to program such old things? Your car needs to be replaced. With a traditional key you pull the ignition assembly and a locksmith replaces the worn tumblers. I can have locks repaired for any old car, modern keyless cars? Good luck, especially with how quickly technlogy changes.
I don't know about the ~1995 cars in your sig, but many cars starting about then came with NFC chips inside the key. Meaning you have that problem with or without the metal key. My 1998 Mercury had it. I think almost all cars today do. I'm just saying that since we already have the e-key, we might as well get rid of the metal one and save the cost and complexity. Also, the lock cylinder may or may not be available 20 years from now. Solid state electronics are hard to wear out.
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Old 06-20-2014, 02:44 PM   #25
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I don't know about the ~1995 cars in your sig, but many cars starting about then came with NFC chips inside the key. Meaning you have that problem with or without the metal key. My 1998 Mercury had it. I think almost all cars today do. I'm just saying that since we already have the e-key, we might as well get rid of the metal one and save the cost and complexity. Also, the lock cylinder may or may not be available 20 years from now. Solid state electronics are hard to wear out.
Electronics fail all the time. Lock cylinder will likely be long since obsolete, however the tumblers will be able to be replaced by a locksmith. There is a massive amount of overlap between brands on those. When the fancy electric key fails is there anyone that can fix the control module for it? Not likely.
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