Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday October 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2014, 10:29 PM   #476
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
OK guys, one of the local builders suggested that the block wasn't machined to the right specifications. He also said that he has had to send blocks back to the machine shop many times because they were incorrectly cut.

I just measured all of the bores, and with my Fowler dial bore gauge, (.0005 accuracy?) each of the cylinder PTW clearances appear to measure .0020-.0022. Could measuring without a torque plate / the cases torqued together cause such an inaccuracy, or do you think it could be incorrectly cut?
If it was machined with tq plates, then you have to measure with said tq plates or your readings will be off from that of the machinists. That said it doesnt mean that it has the right PTW even if you used the plates to measure your bores

However you had bearing issues so the PTW would be the least of your worries ATM
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by 2Fast4U1DAY; 06-20-2014 at 10:36 PM.
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:24 PM   #477
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post

If it was machined with tq plates, then you have to measure with said tq plates or your readings will be off from that of the machinists. That said it doesnt mean that it has the right PTW even if you used the plates to measure your bores

However you had bearing issues so the PTW would be the least of your worries ATM
I've already cleaned up the mess from da bearings. New oil pan, pump, cleaned avcs lines, oil galleries, cleaned block and heads.. turbo, etc.

I want to make sure my block isn't going to need a rebuild in 5k lol
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 01:53 AM   #478
SUB-Z3RO
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 369426
Join Date: Sep 2013
At the Track

In the beginning of this thread I was super excited because I just started experiencing what I believe to be rod knock and had planned on doing all the work that I can myself. Now after reading about your issues after assembly I'm super nervous, but I really want to do all the work myself for the experience and to save $$ as well. I'm digging the thread though! Sorry about your luck. I have learned a lot so far!
SUB-Z3RO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 09:33 AM   #479
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post

I've already cleaned up the mess from da bearings. New oil pan, pump, cleaned avcs lines, oil galleries, cleaned block and heads.. turbo, etc.

I want to make sure my block isn't going to need a rebuild in 5k lol
Excessive PTW wont make you have to rebuild it in 5k. Itll wear the rings faster but its not gonna destroy the bottom end. Itll be a little more noisy and the rings will wear faster like i said previously but its not going to be detrimental. IMO its worse to be Too tight, than to be too loose

Last edited by 2Fast4U1DAY; 06-21-2014 at 11:06 AM.
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 11:09 AM   #480
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post

Excessive PTW wont make you have to rebuild it in 5k. Itll wear the rings faster but its not gonna destroy the bottom end. Itll be a little more noisy amd the rings woll wear faster like i said previously but its not going to be detrimental. IMO its worse to be Too tight, than to be too loose
Thats what im concerned about - potentially having a piston seize up in a bore when it heats up for the first time. I need to bolt the case halves together and measure the ptwc again
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 11:26 AM   #481
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post

Thats what im concerned about - potentially having a piston seize up in a bore when it heats up for the first time. I need to bolt the case halves together and measure the ptwc again
If you dont have tq plates your measurements are worthless. When you bolt the plates to the block the bore will open up more

Last edited by 2Fast4U1DAY; 06-21-2014 at 11:33 AM.
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #482
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post

If you dont have tq plates your measurements are worthless. When you bolt the plates to the block the bore will open up more
Do you know, roughly, how much it could open ? E.g.) .0005 more maybe when all torqued together
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 06:34 PM   #483
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post

Do you know, roughly, how much it could open ? E.g.) .0005 more maybe when all torqued together
Every one is different
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2014, 12:39 AM   #484
Jameshowlett
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 358936
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Antonio
Vehicle:
2004 WRX
Silver

Default

I thought I had problems just having my heads machined. Turns out the spark plug holes were cracked, so I found a set for $400. Turns out they need to be machined too, not as much as it would cost for a new set but damn close.
Jameshowlett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2014, 02:49 PM   #485
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameshowlett View Post
I thought I had problems just having my heads machined. Turns out the spark plug holes were cracked, so I found a set for $400. Turns out they need to be machined too, not as much as it would cost for a new set but damn close.
Thread jack much? Start you own build thread, dont clog up somone elses
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2014, 03:17 PM   #486
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
Thats what im concerned about - potentially having a piston seize up in a bore when it heats up for the first time. I need to bolt the case halves together and measure the ptwc again
it sucks but if you really want to measure the PTWC correctly you'll have to throw tq plates on and measure.

I've seen a couple people say they have ran down towards .002 PTWC with 2616 pistons so I bet your fine depending on how much HP/racing you plan on doing with this block. Although it would be good piece of mind to get some plates on there and check it out
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2014, 06:53 PM   #487
ap1luis
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 320729
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Moines, IA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STi
PSM

Default

Been quietly following this thread for a while now. Awesome for others like myself who want to go this same route.
Goodluck to OP. Subscribed, cant wait to see it run
ap1luis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 10:16 AM   #488
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

OK - got some nice piston cleaning brushes last night and started going through the heads again now that I have the proper length and diameter brushes. Took all of the oil gallery plugs out of the heads, used soap and HOT water. Afterwards, put the heads on a decline and sprayed brake parts cleaner from the high side to the lower side. Also sprayed the cleaned through the camshaft oil feed holes / the couple of oil galleries randomly about the head.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 11:50 AM   #489
uglybetty
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 381907
Join Date: Feb 2014
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Nashville
Vehicle:
2005 forester STI

Default

^^^ where did you get the brushes?
uglybetty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 12:21 PM   #490
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglybetty View Post
^^^ where did you get the brushes?
We went to a local fleamarket with my pops haha.

He said that most tool shops should have them. They were only $2.14 for 4 brushes. Also picked up some brass brushes but they seemed pretty abrasive.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 01:17 PM   #491
uglybetty
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 381907
Join Date: Feb 2014
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Nashville
Vehicle:
2005 forester STI

Default

I think I will just go and get another set of gun cleaning brushes
uglybetty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 02:31 PM   #492
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglybetty View Post
I think I will just go and get another set of gun cleaning brushes
Yar - that's what they were labeled as. Seemed to be the perfect outer-diameter for the oil gallery holes.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 02:49 PM   #493
uglybetty
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 381907
Join Date: Feb 2014
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Nashville
Vehicle:
2005 forester STI

Default

I got that idea out of the "tricks of the trade" thread. I think it was mentioned by nasioc member Team Scream.
uglybetty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 06:01 PM   #494
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglybetty View Post
I got that idea out of the "tricks of the trade" thread. I think it was mentioned by nasioc member Team Scream.
Oh true. Never saw that one ha ha. I just looked for brushes of the right diameter and length gonna put the case together tonight I think
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 11:13 PM   #495
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Cleaned up all my parts again today for installation / assembly rather of the shortblock. Sprayed everything down thoroughly with brake parts cleaner and hit it with compressed air pretty well. Re-lubed up the cylinder walls with some atf as well.

Tomorrow i'll put the rods on the crank and more likely seal the cases together!
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 12:08 AM   #496
Jameshowlett
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 358936
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Antonio
Vehicle:
2004 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Thread jack much? Start you own build thread, dont clog up somone elses
How about you quit the flaming. Especially when I was agreeing with the headaches of a build.
Jameshowlett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 02:33 AM   #497
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
Cleaned up all my parts again today for installation / assembly rather of the shortblock. Sprayed everything down thoroughly with brake parts cleaner and hit it with compressed air pretty well. Re-lubed up the cylinder walls with some atf as well.

Tomorrow i'll put the rods on the crank and more likely seal the cases together!
And the case is back together! And I took some videos!
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 10:53 AM   #498
uglybetty
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 381907
Join Date: Feb 2014
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Nashville
Vehicle:
2005 forester STI

Default

Definitely want to see your videos. This thread has helped a ton in prepping for when my motor gets back to me. In doing all of that extra cleaning, how much extra gunk did you find?

Last edited by uglybetty; 06-25-2014 at 11:26 AM.
uglybetty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 01:45 PM   #499
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglybetty View Post
Definitely want to see your videos. This thread has helped a ton in prepping for when my motor gets back to me. In doing all of that extra cleaning, how much extra gunk did you find?
So even after I cleaned out the heads with hot water, soap etc... The day before assembly I took the new pipe cleaners and put them in hot soapy water in a cup. I continued to scrub the galleries from the inside out. I took a tiny pipe cleaner and pushed it through the tiny holes used to feed the cams.

When I finished scrubbing, I put the heads on a slant so that any liquid inside of the cylinder head would leak out because gravity said so. I sprayed brake parts cleaner through all of the holes strategically (from cam holes first, then through the large passages that go from front to back). There was quite a dirty puddle of cleaner in the bottom of the cleaning tray I used, which was pretty surprising. The brushes + soapy water breaks the surface tension like a champ. I continued cleaning until nothing else came through.

I actually filmed each part of the assembly process (shortblock). I'm not a pro, but I followed the FSM and used it as a reference before giving any information in the videos. It'll take a while to chop them all up, but I think it'll be useful to the community.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 04:53 PM   #500
Razgeiz
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 358782
Join Date: Jun 2013
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Springfield, Illinois
Vehicle:
2013 STi
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post

So even after I cleaned out the heads with hot water, soap etc... The day before assembly I took the new pipe cleaners and put them in hot soapy water in a cup. I continued to scrub the galleries from the inside out. I took a tiny pipe cleaner and pushed it through the tiny holes used to feed the cams.

When I finished scrubbing, I put the heads on a slant so that any liquid inside of the cylinder head would leak out because gravity said so. I sprayed brake parts cleaner through all of the holes strategically (from cam holes first, then through the large passages that go from front to back). There was quite a dirty puddle of cleaner in the bottom of the cleaning tray I used, which was pretty surprising. The brushes + soapy water breaks the surface tension like a champ. I continued cleaning until nothing else came through.

I actually filmed each part of the assembly process (shortblock). I'm not a pro, but I followed the FSM and used it as a reference before giving any information in the videos. It'll take a while to chop them all up, but I think it'll be useful to the community.
Please post them this is awesome!
Razgeiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.