Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday September 14, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-01-2014, 09:47 PM   #26
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30D swap

Default

here we go...
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 01:01 AM   #27
raggedoutsti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 255714
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: katy tx
Vehicle:
2005 STi
psm

Default

what goes wrong with sleeved engines? Forgive me I'm a noob, but i have a Benson sleeved block in my car right now. Havent even done the first start yet.
raggedoutsti is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 03:17 AM   #28
communik
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 122112
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: socal
Vehicle:
2005 STi

Default

I have a 560 awhp dd with outfront's closed deck block. no probs so far with about 20k on the block @ 28 psi.
communik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 04:01 AM   #29
2000subie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 207638
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: kansas
Vehicle:
2004 stage 3 wrx
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedoutsti View Post
what goes wrong with sleeved engines? Forgive me I'm a noob, but i have a Benson sleeved block in my car right now. Havent even done the first start yet.

Most common issue is the sleeves dropping. Which leads to no more headgasket sealing.

I say stock sleeves FTW! I'm going to push 33/34psi on mine and hopefully 700whp. I also don't daily my car though.
2000subie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 08:32 AM   #30
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
And a very popular opinion at that.

No closed deck blocks have failed.

I have yet to see a sleeved block with decent power and no sleeve issues over prolonged periods of time.
No doubt, you guys build great engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedoutsti View Post
what goes wrong with sleeved engines? Forgive me I'm a noob, but i have a Benson sleeved block in my car right now. Havent even done the first start yet.
Sleeved engines fail when they are installed wrong or the pre-machining is done wrong. Assuming assembly, components, and tune are correct you should see several seasons (years) and MANY rebuilds from a sleeved motor. Which is something you will not see from a closed deck block given some applications. They are just different animals and each have their own application where they are advantageous IMO.
KillerBMotorsport is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 08:54 AM   #31
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86, Meth, 272s, Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by communik View Post
I have a 560 awhp dd with outfront's closed deck block. no probs so far with about 20k on the block @ 28 psi.
this is brolic, very good to hear
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 08:54 AM   #32
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86, Meth, 272s, Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
And a very popular opinion at that.

No closed deck blocks have failed.

I have yet to see a sleeved block with decent power and no sleeve issues over prolonged periods of time.
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 10:05 AM   #33
DisoDisp
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 187648
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Finland
Vehicle:
2007 WRX

Default

We've seen aftermarket closed deck failures when bored out to 100mm
DisoDisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 03:29 PM   #34
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86, Meth, 272s, Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.bryant View Post
It's only $875 to have the closed deck process done, hardly "paying to play big" in the grand scheme of things. I'm a big fan of the 1/2" studs they can machine for at Outfront too...for anything that will be running 30+ pounds of boost.

I've got 14k on my closed deck DD and now running a Full-Race BW EFR 9180 twin scroll. Should easily get the 900 whp mark on the dyno in a few weeks. With no block failures and no added risk of dropping sleeves, the $875 is a VERY good option and should be strongly considered for a build like this!

Pretty much sums up everything great about the closed deck
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 03:44 PM   #35
m.bryant
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 310077
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Pleasant Hill, IA
Vehicle:
2007 Legacy GT SpecB
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisoDisp View Post
We've seen aftermarket closed deck failures when bored out to 100mm

Who's closed deck and what type of failure?


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
m.bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 06:21 PM   #36
DisoDisp
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 187648
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Finland
Vehicle:
2007 WRX

Default

A local company, their cdbs look like this:


CDB by DisoDisp, on Flickr

Fail at the same place as semi closed decked blocks, the bolt pass through releif into the water jacket.

P.s im pretty sure there are failed outfront cbd's on nasioc too, atleast on the old design.

Last edited by DisoDisp; 08-02-2014 at 06:26 PM.
DisoDisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 07:13 PM   #37
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86, Meth, 272s, Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.bryant View Post
Who's closed deck and what type of failure?


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
Definitely not Outfront's
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 08:18 PM   #38
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisoDisp View Post
P.s im pretty sure there are failed outfront cbd's on nasioc too, atleast on the old design.
That was the old design. New one supposedly has zero failures.



How much power was that setup pushing that broke??
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014, 09:00 PM   #39
DisoDisp
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 187648
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Finland
Vehicle:
2007 WRX

Default

Just under 500, wasn't a big power build iirc.
DisoDisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 12:47 AM   #40
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86, Meth, 272s, Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisoDisp View Post
Just under 500, wasn't a big power build iirc.
Could be a tuning thing. Even stock semi closed deck can hold 500
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 01:31 AM   #41
tyrel.boyce
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 270178
Join Date: Jan 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Bismarck ND
Vehicle:
2002 Subaru WRB
380HP stock motor HTA68

Default

ive got almost 2k on my build using an outfront closed deck haha not too bring that back up but jus sayin.... making over 500whp
tyrel.boyce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 12:42 PM   #42
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing LLC
Vehicle:
96 bastard child
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by user1029 View Post
Definitely not Outfront's
I think it was JC Meynet failed one of the way early closed decks. I know Jeff and Matt have been super happy beating on their newer version blocks.
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 01:02 PM   #43
actACCORDingly
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 347086
Join Date: Feb 2013
Default

Ok guys, oil feed and return for the turbo, I know someone has done them with a precision turbo. What do I need. Also should I hook up the water lines? Anyone have pics of their setups with what they used to make it work? Thanks.

On a side note. Travis from soulless will be tuning the car, can't wait to see him work his magic. I contacted out front about the closed deck block, just waiting to hear back. The twin disk should either be shipping or here tomorrow; I forgot which it was. 2200cc injectors will be here soon as well thanks to Bruce at fiveomotorsport. Heads are off to getting ported on Tuesday. I'm going to build a double pumper with 2x walbro 450lph's so it's not going to run out of fuel on the dyno and I'm not kicking myself in the ass for not making power due to lack of fuel. I have everything drawn out, (rough summary) gona hook up a 40a relay to factory fuel pump power wire and run 10awg or 8awg to the tank. That way it's still hard wired and the pumps will work like stock. Not sure if that's how travis told me how to do it or not. If so I'm not going to take any credit from him.
actACCORDingly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 01:57 PM   #44
bebesito21
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 176128
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: I <3 E85
Vehicle:
5862 ...baby boosted

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by actACCORDingly View Post
already have a 6266. got it for $750. lets see you find a 6466 for anywhere near that price.
i probably could get pretty close, some of us can get great prices...but thats neither here nor there. the point was that to make that power, its easier with a bigger turbo (less boost) and its totally possible for the car to drive nicely around town with a 6466 while still meeting your goals. can you even make your goals with the 6266?? its ~74lb per minute....cutting it close no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by actACCORDingly View Post
I understand that if you want to play big, you have to pay big. It's not my car, I'm just picking the parts and putting it together. A 6266 was in his budget and the 6466 wasn't. This car was supposed to have a built bottom end, stock heads, and a green originally. When we realized it dropped a valve we decided to build the new heads. The build escalated really quickly after that. Speaking of playing big, my personal car is a terminator cobra with a lsx swap, th400, and a borg warner 91mm. In retrospect, you should be trying to play big
LOL @ having a budget on an "at least 700whp" daily driver....why not go for 800whp. smh
bebesito21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 09:57 AM   #45
wgr73
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232458
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Las Cruces, El Paso
Vehicle:
2008 STi (OBP)
CAMTuning.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by actACCORDingly View Post
Travis from soulless will be tuning the car, can't wait to see him work his magic.
Good choice!
wgr73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 06:18 PM   #46
actACCORDingly
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 347086
Join Date: Feb 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wgr73 View Post
Good choice!
I think so as well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bebesito21 View Post
i probably could get pretty close, some of us can get great prices...but thats neither here nor there. the point was that to make that power, its easier with a bigger turbo (less boost) and its totally possible for the car to drive nicely around town with a 6466 while still meeting your goals. can you even make your goals with the 6266?? its ~74lb per minute....cutting it close no?



LOL @ having a budget on an "at least 700whp" daily driver....why not go for 800whp. smh
It is a street car, faster spool with the 6266. That's why. Not going to make as much power, it's going to run hotter, but it's what the owner wants.


Intercooler came in today.
actACCORDingly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 06:49 PM   #47
Z0rr0
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23123
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:
15 WRX 6MT
07 Legacy SpecB

Default

Treadstone?
Z0rr0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 06:56 PM   #48
Z0rr0
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23123
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:
15 WRX 6MT
07 Legacy SpecB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by actACCORDingly View Post
Travis from soulless will be tuning the car, can't wait to see him work his magic.
Thanks! I cannot wait to see the build in person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by actACCORDingly View Post
2200cc injectors will be here soon as well thanks to Bruce at fiveomotorsport.
I don't want to bash any product, so i'll say this: I have had much better luck with Injector Dynamics injectors. I feel they are worth the money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by actACCORDingly View Post
I have everything drawn out, (rough summary) gona hook up a 40a relay to factory fuel pump power wire and run 10awg or 8awg to the tank. That way it's still hard wired and the pumps will work like stock. Not sure if that's how travis told me how to do it or not. If so I'm not going to take any credit from him.
Sounds about right. Each of those pumps will take up to 20 amps at full tilt.. so might want to have 2 relays, one for each. We can also have a hobbs switch that kicks the 2nd pump on once we reach a certain boost..
Z0rr0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 08:01 PM   #49
actACCORDingly
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 347086
Join Date: Feb 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z0rr0 View Post
Thanks! I cannot wait to see the build in person.



I don't want to bash any product, so i'll say this: I have had much better luck with Injector Dynamics injectors. I feel they are worth the money.



Sounds about right. Each of those pumps will take up to 20 amps at full tilt.. so might want to have 2 relays, one for each. We can also have a hobbs switch that kicks the 2nd pump on once we reach a certain boost..
Paul's injectors are second to none. I'd use his injectors in every application if I could. Yes, it is a treadstone intercooler.

Last edited by actACCORDingly; 08-06-2014 at 12:43 PM.
actACCORDingly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 09:01 PM   #50
kellygnsd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Rancho C
Vehicle:
2007 2.34LR, EFR7670
LINK G4 hybrid STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by besthaticouldo View Post
I've never understood balancing to a clutch and flywheel assembly. That seems absolutely stupid. What happens if you change clutch, then everything is off.

Also, this seems like a really bad idea for a daily.

I agree with above for a closed deck block instead of sleeves.
Easy, don't change clutches. Pick the right on the first time and when the time comes just resurface the flywheel and PP and replace the clutch disc. Index everything and 're-install the same as you removed it.
kellygnsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.