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Old 07-31-2014, 01:54 PM   #1676
IheartAWD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Well, I mean its in pieces on my work bench because I pulled it apart to measure the exducer... It needs a rebuild and a new comp wheel and one of the typical broken 08 wrx bolts extracted then I'll probably ebay it.

You'll love the 20T. I know I do. It's the best turbo for our 2.0 in my opinion, in term of usefulness. I think some of the members on here are somewhat bias against it, purely not because of performance, but $$$ reason and/or others. You'll see what I mean when you search 16G.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:22 PM   #1677
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I can confirm that the jdm 01-02 wrx ej205 with avcs has a td04hl-15t. I've seen people thinking usdm cars have bigger td04. They only motors I've ever see with the td04 were always the stock usdm turbo. If you want the bigger housing find jdm stock turbos.


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Old 08-07-2014, 01:26 AM   #1678
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So I'm kind of new to this hybrid turbo business, but a local guy I wired standalone for has a 19t setup and it sounds awesome. I picked up a cheap td04 to build something for my 02 WRX with a six speed, I just saw you guys were talking about a 20t, what all does that involve?
I mostly daily and autocross the car, so I'm thinking a regular 16g will be to big/laggy for my needs, are there hybrids suited to autocross?

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Old 08-07-2014, 02:22 AM   #1679
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I'm interested in "downgrading" to the 20t as well, my understanding is both the 19t and 20t will need machining to fit, right?
And is there a compressor map for the 20t anywhere, I cant find one.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:42 AM   #1680
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I run a TD04HL-19t that I got for a great deal, here is what I can tell you and what you may expect.

-Mine spools a smidge later than stock, about 300 rpm later compared to stage 2. Probably a combination of bigger wheels, STi cams, tuning.

-Top end is extended out past the stock TD04. Don't expect it to hold to 7000+ because it won't. Holds past 5500 easily though.

-Midrange is much beefier than before. Low end is the same but feels less because of the bigger hit when it comes on boost.

Here are the negatives:

-6cm housing. Ultimately, this will limit the amount of power you can produce. True, the smaller housing with big wheels will spool up faster but new turbos with better aero, materials and bearing technology will ultimately be better.

It can be argued the other direction as well that the newer billet wheels to make up a 19t-HL will make it spool faster yet but I have no experience with that.

-Bearings: to do this correctly, the HD thrust needs to be used. There is no way around this unless you are starting from an HL center cartridge which is already beefier and uses the better bearings from the outset

-Cost: to mod an existing turbo to 19t/20t/HL/H requires machining and balancing of both the housings and CHRA. This is at a minimum of $400-500. Add in your fancy wheels and the cost only goes up. At the end, you will still have a small-housing turbo.

Kunigawa does make already built TD04s in a variety of flavors, the problem is that the cost for a 16g from them in the same spec is not all that far off.

-Tuning and supporting mods: will cost the same as if you were going to go to a larger turbo anyway. An upgraded intercooler is a must as the larger compressor in the small housing is going to really heat up the charge air.

Ultimately, you will have to be the judge on what you're looking for as well as be realistic. Like I said in a thread/flame fest in the 2l forum it's more like stage 2+. Nowadays it is not a cost-effective option unless you get a great deal like I did.

I would suggest to get a ride or drive a 19t equipped car or talk to an experienced tuner to steer you in the proper direction. This turbo slots right in between stock and the small 16g. Make sure you read this entire 19T discussion as the comparisons are great until the talk of the "monstah" start up (page 30 or so) . I found the conversation/information degraded significantly after that.

I was very realistic in my goals and wanted a milder setup but a bit more than stage 2. This turbo provides a wider power curve and uses more of the rev range than OTS stage 2 but will not produce more power in comparison to any of the larger turbo offerings.

-Randy
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:56 PM   #1681
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I'm really interested in hearing about numbers on the Kinguwa TD04HL-20T with the 9 blade turbine. Does anyone have compressor maps, flow numbers, max WHP?
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:08 PM   #1682
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I've been seeing a lot of discussion on Kiniguawa. The Aussies seem to like them. How are they for reliability?

Also, does anyone know how the TD04HL-19t would spool compared to the 16G-XT-R Ball Bearing that Blouch offers? I know the 16G will make more power, but I have a 2L daily driver and don't intend to race. So lower end is important.
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Old 08-09-2014, 12:15 PM   #1683
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I like this thread
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Old 08-09-2014, 01:43 PM   #1684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinT View Post
I've been seeing a lot of discussion on Kiniguawa. The Aussies seem to like them. How are they for reliability?

Also, does anyone know how the TD04HL-19t would spool compared to the 16G-XT-R Ball Bearing that Blouch offers? I know the 16G will make more power, but I have a 2L daily driver and don't intend to race. So lower end is important.
I would also like to know! I just swapped in a 6 speed and want more power :P but I daily/autocross and don't want the lag

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Old 08-11-2014, 07:35 AM   #1685
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I think the closest you guys are going to get to compressor maps, spool characteristics etc are going to be what's already posted.

My VD plot is posted in the 2L forum and also a compressor overlay in the same thread. I'll save you all the trouble:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=19t

Enjoy all the BS banter interspersed with information.

This is really an old turbo so I doubt you'll find much new information about it. Like I said, with cost and machining being a factor, very doubtful you'll see plots/dynos for the 20t model.
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:46 AM   #1686
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tomacGTi, thanks for the link.

I just read the thread. Your and BRR's illuminating answers even shine through Scotty's smoke. I like what BRR has to say about a larger compressor turning slower for the same boost. Like you I have a DD, have no interest in Auto-X, but I think the low and mid range performance requirements are similar to street driving.

Blouch says their 19t conversion is popular with the Auto-X crowd. I just wish their 16G-XT-R had a smaller hot side. Maybe I need to send an email to Unabomber. He sure likes his.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:34 AM   #1687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinT View Post
tomacGTi, thanks for the link.

I just read the thread. Your and BRR's illuminating answers even shine through Scotty's smoke. I like what BRR has to say about a larger compressor turning slower for the same boost. Like you I have a DD, have no interest in Auto-X, but I think the low and mid range performance requirements are similar to street driving.

Blouch says their 19t conversion is popular with the Auto-X crowd. I just wish their 16G-XT-R had a smaller hot side. Maybe I need to send an email to Unabomber. He sure likes his.
Then get the GT2860RS or GTX2860R from ATP Turbo. Thats pretty much the smallest BB housinged turbo you can get with the subaru flange. If you want to do better than that with soll then you need to go to a low mount turbo manifold.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:54 AM   #1688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinT View Post
tomacGTi, thanks for the link.

I just read the thread. Your and BRR's illuminating answers even shine through Scotty's smoke. I like what BRR has to say about a larger compressor turning slower for the same boost. Like you I have a DD, have no interest in Auto-X, but I think the low and mid range performance requirements are similar to street driving.

Blouch says their 19t conversion is popular with the Auto-X crowd. I just wish their 16G-XT-R had a smaller hot side. Maybe I need to send an email to Unabomber. He sure likes his.
I would not get too caught up in the charts. A few hundred RPM delay in boost is going to be no time at all in real world driving. If you are really concerned about it just stick with the stock turbo. If you can afford it, get the 16g and enjoy the +30hp on the top end to make up for that 1-2 second lag.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:35 PM   #1689
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I've driven a 2.0l 03 wagon with the td04 vf39 and blouch td05-16gxt. The vf39 made 289whp 272tq at 5800ft on a nearly new motor (15k) at 17-18psi. The old motor (110k) with the 16g made 307whp 289tq at the same altitude same dyno same psi. The 16g is way more fun up above 3800 rpms. The vf39 is way more fun for short shifting. If you have a 6 speed go with anything that has a 7cm sq exhaust housing.


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Old 08-13-2014, 01:11 AM   #1690
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Thanks for everyone's inputs. I'm not really concerned with horsepower. I've outgrown that. I want drivability. I don't want to give up a few hundred RPM delay in boost. At 75 MPH in high gear, that translates into 7-8 MPH. My goal is getting the most out of the 2.0L without giving up DD flexibility. Let the horsepower numbers fall where they may.

Leafy, thanks for the ATP info. I'm going to look into them. Seems to me the ideal for my purposes would be a billet turbo with ball bearing.

I believe the term is "maximum area under the curve."

-------

Additional note... All ATP turbos require a 3" inlet, which rules them out for me.

Last edited by CalvinT; 08-13-2014 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 08-13-2014, 03:01 AM   #1691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinT View Post
Thanks for everyone's inputs. I'm not really concerned with horsepower. I've outgrown that. I want drivability. I don't want to give up a few hundred RPM delay in boost. At 75 MPH in high gear, that translates into 7-8 MPH. My goal is getting the most out of the 2.0L without giving up DD flexibility. Let the horsepower numbers fall where they may.

Leafy, thanks for the ATP info. I'm going to look into them. Seems to me the ideal for my purposes would be a billet turbo with ball bearing.

I believe the term is "maximum area under the curve."

-------

Additional note... All ATP turbos require a 3" inlet, which rules them out for me.


d0000000000d...yer still just pissin in the wind.

ive been around and seen a LOT of stuff posted by a LOT of people and ya can NOT have it both ways


unless and until YOU put 4 or 5 turbos on YOUR car and either tune them yourself or have somebody worth a **** tune them

there is no possible way for you to be happy....yoiu have too many (ill)pre-concieved notions about that which is 1000% irrelevant or nebulous.

can NOT be devined out of thin air like you want....10000% impossible.

aint happenin.

yer on a snipe hunt here......there IS no unicorn.

YOU posted that you didnt get 'spool' until 2700 on a stock td04 and I told you that your tune was **** and you flipped out and got all stupid

im REALLY sorry that YOU dont have a clue...but I DO have a clue and i think that if you pulled your head out and GOT A GOOD BLOODY TUNE...you would find your 'unicorn' in the stock turbo.

the whole thing is gonna revolve around yer hardware combination and the tune and NOT finding some turbo that isnt anywhere but in your mind.

point blank

Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 08-13-2014 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:41 AM   #1692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinT View Post
Thanks for everyone's inputs. I'm not really concerned with horsepower. I've outgrown that. I want drivability. I don't want to give up a few hundred RPM delay in boost. At 75 MPH in high gear, that translates into 7-8 MPH. My goal is getting the most out of the 2.0L without giving up DD flexibility. Let the horsepower numbers fall where they may.

Leafy, thanks for the ATP info. I'm going to look into them. Seems to me the ideal for my purposes would be a billet turbo with ball bearing.

I believe the term is "maximum area under the curve."

-------

Additional note... All ATP turbos require a 3" inlet, which rules them out for me.
I thought the discopotato could be had with the smaller inlet but I guess I was wrong.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:48 AM   #1693
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post


d0000000000d...yer still just pissin in the wind.

ive been around and seen a LOT of stuff posted by a LOT of people and ya can NOT have it both ways


unless and until YOU put 4 or 5 turbos on YOUR car and either tune them yourself or have somebody worth a **** tune them

there is no possible way for you to be happy....yoiu have too many (ill)pre-concieved notions about that which is 1000% irrelevant or nebulous.

can NOT be devined out of thin air like you want....10000% impossible.

aint happenin.

yer on a snipe hunt here......there IS no unicorn.

YOU posted that you didnt get 'spool' until 2700 on a stock td04 and I told you that your tune was **** and you flipped out and got all stupid

im REALLY sorry that YOU dont have a clue...but I DO have a clue and i think that if you pulled your head out and GOT A GOOD BLOODY TUNE...you would find your 'unicorn' in the stock turbo.

the whole thing is gonna revolve around yer hardware combination and the tune and NOT finding some turbo that isnt anywhere but in your mind.

point blank
When normal reasoning doesn't work bring in Scotty to help explain.
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Old 08-14-2014, 02:11 AM   #1694
CalvinT
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Scotty,

You're a arrogant loudmouth who depends on yelling to make your point instead of using solid information. I was courteous on this thread, because I think you were misinformed, plus you were being nice. Plus I'm mature enough to have outgrown the need to boost my ego by putting other people down.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...2450820&page=3

As my post there shows, I do my homework.

I'll continue to do my research, but will not pay attention to those who attack anyone who doesn't agree with them.

I've probably been working on engines before you were born. I assume you're around 40 give or take. I learned back in my 20's that the key to good performance is balance between all components. I also learned that the people who talked the loudest often knew the least about the subject.

I will not respond to your reply. If everyone did the same, you might find the time to do something useful rather than flaming people.

I will grant you this, you once suggested Stromung mufflers. I got one and I'm very happy with it.

Last edited by CalvinT; 08-14-2014 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:54 PM   #1695
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here is my contribution to the thread. I've been running the 19T for the last 4 years, but never posted any graphs because I was always on stock injectors, stock catted downpipes and down on power on purpose to preserve the transmission. I finally upgraded the brakes and fuel system of my car recently and decided it was time to re-tune.



100 degree weather on Shell brand California 91 octane
2002 EJ205 stock everything, operating TGVs intact - aprox 80k miles
TD04-19T by blouch - stock porting/stock coating
Cobb Accesport v2 Protuned by 7LAutosport
AEM Cold Air Intake
ID1000s
DW301 fuel pump
Mishimoto TMIC
Mishimoto Inlet hose
NGK Iridiums
OEM WRX 2.5" midpipe
Prodrive Oval Axleback
Generic catless uppipe
Cobb catted downpipe
Shell Rotella T6 5w40
Grimmspeed EBC
Grimmspeed AOS
Sun Auto grounding kit


I've been told that Steve's dynapack at 7L reads somewhat low, and the temperature and CA 91 octane surely werent helping me. I'm sure with a full 3" catless TBE would net me more power, but I'm happy with the output and will never go catless again (I have sensitive lungs/eyes and couldnt daily drive catless)

Last edited by Spec R; 08-16-2014 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:11 AM   #1696
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Thanks for the curve. It looks like you didn't give up much if anything at normal street RPMs.

That Blouch upgrade is pretty cheap.
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Old 08-17-2014, 03:50 AM   #1697
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+1 for Gurus that need to be better mentors and welcoming advocates for NASIOC rather than bullies.
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Old 08-17-2014, 07:01 AM   #1698
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+1 for Gurus that need to be better mentors and welcoming advocates for NASIOC rather than bullies.
i REALLY tried to help the cupcake in the OTHER THREAD that got edited....YOU didnt see that one


sorry guys....i really DID try to help the fool out in the other thread....but it wont work with this guy.

he stated that his td04 wasnt spooling until 2700 rpm

DOES ANYBODY ELSE THINK THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM????


i tried to 'splain that his tune was **** because 2700rpm is

that is when all the stupid started......HIS stupid

maybe some of you can get the idiot head unzipper out and pour some non stupid in and sip it back up....

because i REALLY THINK that if the f000l got a decent tune to 20-21psi with what he has NOW...he'd be happy

but what do I know about any of this

calvin says he has NO interest at all in learning how to tune....

MY ADVICE TO CALVIN IS TO SELL THE SUBARU now BEFORE HE WASTES ANY MORE TIME, EFFORT, ENEGRY AND MONEY ON IT AS IT IS AN UNSUITABLE PLATFORM FOR HIM.

sorry d0000ds...but i been there done all that long ago

im out

Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 08-17-2014 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 08-17-2014, 03:04 PM   #1699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec R View Post
here is my contribution to the thread. I've been running the 19T for the last 4 years, but never posted any graphs because I was always on stock injectors, stock catted downpipes and down on power on purpose to preserve the transmission. I finally upgraded the brakes and fuel system of my car recently and decided it was time to re-tune.



100 degree weather on Shell brand California 91 octane
2002 EJ205 stock everything, operating TGVs intact - aprox 80k miles
TD04-19T by blouch - stock porting/stock coating
Cobb Accesport v2 Protuned by 7LAutosport
AEM Cold Air Intake
ID1000s
DW301 fuel pump
Mishimoto TMIC
Mishimoto Inlet hose
NGK Iridiums
OEM WRX 2.5" midpipe
Prodrive Oval Axleback
Generic catless uppipe
Cobb catted downpipe
Shell Rotella T6 5w40
Grimmspeed EBC
Grimmspeed AOS
Sun Auto grounding kit


I've been told that Steve's dynapack at 7L reads somewhat low, and the temperature and CA 91 octane surely werent helping me. I'm sure with a full 3" catless TBE would net me more power, but I'm happy with the output and will never go catless again (I have sensitive lungs/eyes and couldnt daily drive catless)


How many psi are you pushing?
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:56 PM   #1700
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Scotty, you can't even get mad at the right people. So we can get definitions clear:

Spool up is generally when a turbo will make reasonable boost meaning: when you can feel it. What you are probably more referring to is full spool as in when it's "spooled up" and producing the maximum amount of boost it's tuned for.

From my personal experience: stage two spooled up at 2500 revs and was at full boost by 2900-3000 in 3rd gear. On the 19t it spools up by 2700 and is at full boost by 3200. Since this is PPB, here is the dyno chart:



To put an end to this BS: no, I don't want to learn to tune. I don't have the time. Since this is PPB, not the typical other forums you bash people on: prove your mythical turbos.

And you stated yourself you dialed back your 2700RPM tune on your 16g for fear of breaking stuff. You want me to post that link again?

Just stop already. We get it, you hate the 19t and everything else for that matter.
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