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Old 07-21-2003, 08:50 AM   #1
Porter
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Default STi ECM Update Released! (PING FIX)

I just learned from my regional SOA rep that Subaru of America has just received their updated ECM flash from SoJ for the USDM STi to combat the detonation problem.

Customers will need to leave their car with the dealer while their ECMs are sent to Subaru for reprogramming. There is an expected 4-6 day turnaround time, this is will obviously vary depending on a number of variables. Be very patient, it may take several weeks to get the process rolling on your car.

As soon as more flash units become available from Subaru, this will be a dealership-level flash service.

Let your dealer know IF you are experiencing detonation (NOT ALL CARS EXHIBIT IT!), and they will help you resolve the issue after testing and verification. If they aren't already up to speed on the issue, have them contact their regional rep for more information.

It may take some time for information to disseminate and to arrange scheduling through your dealer. PLEASE BE PATIENT through this process, this is not a recall so you will have to go through the full dealership testing, work order, and reporting process. There is an order in which this process must happen, please give your local dealerships the benefit of the doubt on this and allow the SOA reporting and resolution (flash) process to work as it should.

Enjoy!
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Last edited by Porter; 07-21-2003 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 07-21-2003, 09:10 AM   #2
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if this is true, it's really lame that they would require us to leave our cars at the dealer for 4-6 days, instead of just shipping out the 200 or so ECUs to dealers in advance. With so few cars affected, if they are really just reflashing, why not send out the reflashed ECU's in advance, collect the bad ones, and reflash them for use in future cars?
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Old 07-21-2003, 09:11 AM   #3
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hmm...no det WITH mods...unless it gives more power, i think ill pass...
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Old 07-21-2003, 09:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by happasaiyan
hmm...no det WITH mods...unless it gives more power, i think ill pass...
Same situation here. Mine runs great and I don't want less hp or tq. My ECU reflash will probably be done by a tuner.
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Old 07-21-2003, 09:22 AM   #5
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4 - 6 Days for the techs to rape your cars on the road while "testing"
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:15 AM   #6
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Any reason for this reflash to cause some power loss? If not, better safe than sorry.
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soon2bSubbieowner
4 - 6 Days for the techs to rape your cars on the road while "testing"
If you don't have anything mature to say, please remain quiet or go elsewhere.

This thread is intended for informational purposes, it is not and will NOT be a bitch session for what you think might or might not happen.

Also, if you think an STi can be "test driven" with no ECU in the car, you might want to sit and think very hard about what that means for a while. It'll come to you eventually.


Subaru will eventually have a flash cartridge at every dealer to perform this update, currently there is only ONE (1) in the country, so the ECMs have to be sent to Subaru for programming and then sent right back. 4-6 days is an estimate based on the outside chance of shipping problems or backlog at SoA.



PLEASE DO NOT attack your local dealer over this issue. Subaru is making every effort to resolve the det issue, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that there will be a change in torque or horsepower. These are currently unknown variables and anyone who may try to tell you otherwise is speaking from a soapbox of ignorance and deception. It is HIGHLY unlikely that Subaru would cripple the performance of the vehicle in order to fix something like a small timing map glitch. These kinds of issues have been fixed many times in the past on other vehicles with no change in drivability whatsoever.

Thanks!

-Jason Porter

Last edited by Porter; 07-21-2003 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:23 AM   #8
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This was the same situation with the WRX --- they only had one flash cartridge so ECM's had to be sent in.
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Porter


If you don't have anything mature to say, please remain quiet or go elsewhere.

This thread is intended for informational purposes, it is not and will NOT be a bitch session for what you think might or might not happen.

Also, if you think an STi can be "test driven" with no ECU in the car, you might want to sit and think very hard about what that means for a while. It'll come to you eventually.


Subaru will eventually have a flash cartridge at every dealer to perform this update, currently there is only ONE (1) in the country, so the ECMs have to be sent to Subaru for programming and then sent right back. 4-6 days is an estimate based on the outside chance of shipping problems or backlog at SoA.

No ish it cant be driven without an ECU, but Im pretty sure after they replace the ECU there gonna have to test drive the car to make sure it works and 4 - 6 Days to reflash an ECU are you joking me, I dont care what anyone says it shouldnt take that long. An hour AT THE MOST. I wouldnt care about a backlog issue. I would wait for the part the stuff to come in, drop off my car and for this kind of fix pick it up the next day.
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Porter

It is HIGHLY unlikely that Subaru would cripple the performance of the vehicle in order to fix a small timing map glitch. These kinds of issues have been fixed many times in the past on other vehicles with no change in drivability whatsoever.

I am sorry but I don't see HOW Subuara can fix this issue without affecting the power in some way. Granted I don't see the 300hp figure changing (since that number is derived futher up in the rpms) but I think we will get a drop in torque to around 280ft lbs or so. That timing 'hump' is right at the torque peak and as such contributes to that torque peak.

Personally I think that the torque can be made up by an extra 1-2 psi of boost in the midrange while pulling about 2-3 degrees of timing to get rid of the knock, but I am not FHI so . It will definitly be interesting to see what happens with this.
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:36 AM   #11
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I just wanted to clarify, I'm not upset with the dealers, etc., I just think it would be nice for them to send out a couple of floating ECU's for the cars that are affected, since there is only one reflash location. Kind of a dealer "core" deposit. then, if a dealer had more than one to reflash, they could send the previous ECU in for reflashing for the next customer, who wouldn't have to wait. The dealer could schedule the appointments 6+ days apart to save the customer the wait time.

If the reflash is to be implemented on future STi's, which is probably the case, it would be much better to be able to order a reflashed ECU, and have your dealer send yours in for the reflash treatment for Subaru to send to someone else, or put in a new car, and save the 4-6 days of inconvenience. This might all be a horrible idea, if the ECUs are VIN marked or something like that, though.

I'm guessing Subaru might not be too excited to provide a rental car for those affected, to get them through the 4-6 days without their daily driver?
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:44 AM   #12
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Rob, there is currently only one flash cartridge in the country. This will change as more become available. This is the method by which Subaru is currently processing the claims. I have no other information to give you, unfortunately. The shipping delay is a temporary problem that will go away as soon as more flash cartridges become available. 4-6 days is a decent estimate. I hope to give my customers a 3 day turnaround, but obviously chaos is the rule rather than the exception when you are talking about shipping anything in this day and age. Appointments will have to be spaced out somewhat, obviously SOA can't flash 200 ECM modules simultaneously. You'll have to be very patient.

As far as a rental vehicle, you will have to check with your local dealer on that issue. Different dealers have different policies and they will have to work with Subaru on that. Obviously I have no information about your local dealer, you will have to query them on that.

As for the changes being made, speculation solves nothing and only serves to muddy the waters with misinformation. We will have to wait and see.

Last edited by Porter; 07-21-2003 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:49 AM   #13
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OMG will people ever be happy

davidm_sh : your second paragraph contradicts your first paragraph. ... there's either no solution ... or there is one ... decide.
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:50 AM   #14
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Thanks for the info, Porter, I don't want to sound like a whiney baby, or something. I have a daily driver if I choose to do the reflash. I'll stay out of the speculation, but I think reducing pinging is probably a good idea. The car will still be tons of fun with 295 lb/ft of torque, or whatever.

Have a good one.
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Old 07-21-2003, 10:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soon2bSubbieowner


No ish it cant be driven without an ECU, but Im pretty sure after they replace the ECU there gonna have to test drive the car to make sure it works and 4 - 6 Days to reflash an ECU are you joking me, I dont care what anyone says it shouldnt take that long. An hour AT THE MOST. I wouldnt care about a backlog issue. I would wait for the part the stuff to come in, drop off my car and for this kind of fix pick it up the next day.
Did you see the part in his post about how they have to ship your ECU to subaru... by subaru he means SOA... so unless you take your car directly to them... you'll have some down time while shipping is being done. Yes of course they will drive it after they get the ECU back... they have to make sure it works. You guys are way too parinoid.. & skim posts way too fast & miss a lot of the important details. It's funny actually
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:05 AM   #16
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Jason,
The fact that they are addressing this issue is great news. Hopefully we will not see any of the speculation that people are speculating Please let me know when I can bring my car in and we can start the process. This is my only daily driver though so we may need to try to work something out.

Dan
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:23 AM   #17
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Great News
Now I hope SOC follows SOA in this for us Canadians

Off to my dealer to let him know of this
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Porter
As far as a rental vehicle, you will have to check with your local dealer on that issue. Different dealers have different policies and they will have to work with Subaru on that. Obviously I have no information about your local dealer, you will have to query them on that.
Whenever WRX ECUs had to be sent to NJ for a reflash, the owner was always offered a loaner or rental, regardless of dealership policy, under the Subaru Owner Assistance Alternate Transportation Program. I would expect the same to be true for the STi.
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlowman

The fact that they are addressing this issue is great news.
Agreed.

I remember reading a post from a tuner with a dyno and a data logger that the problem is actually related to the ECU insisting to push timing even after det on some occasions. It only happened on about 25% of the dyno runs, and didn't match the ECU behavior on the other runs, where it behaved fine. Anybody know if that has been verified by other parties?

If that's true, it sounds like a plain ol' bug in the ECU, so a proper fix for the problem should NOT affect power or torque. If Subaru's solution is to simply back off timing everywhere, it would affect power/torque. I'm hoping for the "bug" story to be true...I've gotten addicted to the power!

Neal
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:44 AM   #20
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Makes more since that this is some sort of a bug. Wonder if the car may actually end up with a little more power since the timing is not going to be pulled as crazily.
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Old 07-21-2003, 12:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
Whenever WRX ECUs had to be sent to NJ for a reflash, the owner was always offered a loaner or rental, regardless of dealership policy, under the Subaru Owner Assistance Alternate Transportation Program. I would expect the same to be true for the STi.
I wonder if those of us in the tri-state can just go to SOA and get it done?
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Old 07-21-2003, 12:12 PM   #22
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thx a lot Porter!!


great news

i d take a lil torque loss over constant det on anyday, plus we haven't seen any evidence this will actually affect hp/torque.
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Old 07-21-2003, 12:34 PM   #23
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Default ECU problem?

Porter,

If it is an ECU software issue, then should the problem be inherent in all STis as they all share the same software? Or is it that there are different revisions? If it is a software issue, then I think it should affect all cars (if they run on 91). In that case, should there be a recall then?

I am still in break-in, so I don't know. But, if I have det (and I'm on 91), I sure would not want to demonstrate it to the dealer if I don't have to; but rather just get an ECU reflash.

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide...
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Old 07-21-2003, 12:45 PM   #24
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Been watching this thread a long time.....I just broke my car in this past weekend and found mine to be afflicted also. I called SOA and got no formal admission that the problem exists. I made an appointment with the service manager at my dealership who says he has heard nothing of this problem. Although, mine is only the 3rd STi they have sold. I think this is very good news....I just hope it actually fixes the problem.
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Old 07-21-2003, 12:53 PM   #25
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is there any official SOA tech. paper about this? I would like to know some technical and background info. on this issue by SOA.

Will someone with access to the on-line subaru tech. site check on this?
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