GA pastor shot and killed in botched drug raid

Qcanfixit · 09-07-2009, 02:34 PM

c/n: obviously a biased article, as most are... just read the story

source: http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2009...hed-drug-raid/

video: http://wneg32.com/images/stories/art...ance_video.mp4

Ga. pastor shot and killed in botched drug raid

By Michael Hampton
Posted: September 4, 2009 2:46 pm

Police officers dressed as gangbangers shot and killed a northeast Georgia pastor Tuesday as he was trying to drive away from a convenience store.
Jonathan Paul Ayers, 28, had been the pastor of Shoal Creek Baptist Church in Livonia for about a year before the fatal shooting. That day, police said, Ayers was seen engaging in an apparent drug transaction with, and then dropping off, a woman who was under surveillance by a northeast Georgia tri-county drug task force. The woman was later arrested on cocaine charges, but no drugs were found on Ayers or in his car.
Surveillance video from the Shell station in Toccoa where the shooting took place shows Ayers coming inside to use the ATM and then, as he is trying to drive out of the parking lot, a Cadillac Escalade attempts to box him in, while what appear to be gangbangers jump out of the SUV and point guns at him. Ayers reverses direction and tries to get around the vehicle, and one of the gangbangers runs into the vehicle’s path and is apparently struck lightly. At this point Ayers puts the car in drive again and the gangbangers start shooting at Ayers.
“He was struggling with the agents. He got back into the car, put the car in drive and started driving toward the other agent who fired two shots in to the automobile,” Stephens County sheriff Randy Shirley told WSB radio. But the store surveillance video shows Ayers was already driving away when what appeared to be gangbangers arrived and blocked his car.
Later it would be learned that the gangbangers were undercover police officers, something store owner Joe Joseph said he didn’t know when he heard the gunshots.

“I saw the first gunshot outside,” he said. “And I was looking outside, I saw a red Honda car backing up — backed up where the air machine is and stopped … I thought they were shooting each other. I didn’t know they were undercover agents. There was nothing marked.”
They shot two more times (after) the second shot, he took off,” Joseph said. “I think whatever they’ve done is wrong because in a business place and the daytime.” — WYFF-TV

“I had a parking lot full of people,” Joseph told WNEG-TV. “I mean they could have blown up one of my pumps and that would have been a total mess.”
Ayers reportedly crashed into a utility pole a short distance away and was taken to the hospital.
“Who shot me?” he asked EMTs who responded.
Ayers’ brother-in-law, Matt Carpenter, says that this means he did not know the gangbangers were also undercover police officers.

“I think it scared him,” when the black Cadillac Escalade pulled next to Ayers’ car and two men got out with guns drawn, said Carpenter.
Carpenter said that’s why he tried to speed away. . . .
“I’ve rerun it in my mind,” Carpenter said. “He had used an ATM inside, got into his car and then a black Escalade pulled up and [they] jumped out . . . If they ID’d themselves, he couldn’t hear them because his windows were up.” — Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The Cadillac Escalade is popular among gangbangers of both the ordinary criminal variety and the police variety.

“They deserve punishment,” said Ayers’ sister, Rebecca Floyd. “They deserve to feel somewhat of the pain we’re feeling, because I can’t get my brother back he’s gone forever.”
Floyd said there’s no way her younger brother would have run if he would have known the men who had guns were officers. The officers were undercover and weren’t in uniform, but investigators said they had badges around their necks and clearly identified themselves.
“I think anyone in that situation would run,” Floyd said. “I know I would. If someone pulled up to me with guns, I would run.”
She said her brother was known to help strangers.
“I could bet my life on it he did not know her,” she said. “I could bet my life on it, because that’s the kind of person he was. He was a good Christian man, and that was his goal was to lead souls to Christ.” — WYFF-TV

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation has launched an investigation into the shooting. The two gangbangers, who were not named, are on paid vacation until the investigation is complete.
I can tell you now what the results of the investigation will be. Despite the fact that statements by the sheriff are contradicted by the surveillance video, the investigation will find that the officers followed “proper procedures” and will not be subject to any sort of justice. Police procedures generally allow for shooting at the driver of a car which strikes an officer, which explains why one of the officers ran himself into its way.
Though these police officers will not likely face justice in this life, there is always the next.
Ayers is survived by his wife Abby, who is 16 weeks pregnant.
Jonathan Ayers is the latest victim of Richard Nixon’s long-running, unwinnable, immoral “War on Drugs.” By making illegal things which have no business being illegal in the first place, it has undermined the Constitution and the rule of law itself, turned millions of honest people into “criminals,” caused thousands of innocent people to lose their money, cars and even homes, without ever being charged with a crime, and resulted in countless deaths of innocent people. It has wrought destruction on our society to a scale unequaled by any other U.S. government program.
Ayers showed us by example what we should be doing: minister to those in need, instead of throwing them in cages at taxpayer expense and allowing innocent Americans to get caught in the crossfire. It’s time to end the War on Drugs before any more innocent people lose their cars, their homes or their lives.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

ScubaruImpreza05 · 09-07-2009, 02:39 PM

Oh, he's just a pastor and a religious nutjob, he got what Darwin wanted him too.

(go go gadget Tarp mode!)

Five.Ten · 09-07-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScubaruImpreza05

Oh, he's just a pastor and a religious nutjob, he got what Darwin wanted him too.

(go go gadget Tarp mode!)

You aren't real good at that.

ScubaruImpreza05 · 09-07-2009, 02:44 PM

I don't know that stupid code to make it cammo with the background

Five.Ten · 09-07-2009, 02:48 PM

Thanks for that feel good piece this morning Q. I hope the officers were able to further justify whatever the hell went down and that they will shed a little more light on this incident cause right now it stinks.

Qcanfixit · 09-07-2009, 02:52 PM

Michael Hampton used and provided links to multiple sources for his article

but here's the AP version anyway:

source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...iMr9QD9AG77000

Ga. pastor, father-to-be killed in drug sting
By DIONNE WALKER (AP) – 3 days ago

ATLANTA — Plainclothes officers shot and killed a small-town pastor when the 28-year-old father-to-be resisted efforts to question him about a passenger in his car who was the target of a drug sting, authorities said.

Jonathan Paul Ayers of Shoal Creek Baptist Church in Lavonia wasn't targeted in the probe that ended in gunfire at a gas station Tuesday, Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead said. But drug task-force agents opened fire on him after he tried to avoid them, putting his car in reverse and striking one of the officers.

Bankhead said agents approached Ayers after he dropped a woman off at a store in downtown Toccoa, which is about 90 miles northeast of Atlanta. The passenger was the person being investigated by the task force.

A grainy surveillance video from a nearby store shows two drug task-force agents emerge from a black SUV before Ayers' small car backs up. The two men fire into the passenger side of Ayers' car, and then it takes off with the agents running behind it, the video posted on WNEG-TV in Toccoa shows. The station owner would not release the video to The Associated Press.

Bankhead said Ayers died Wednesday, about an hour after he had surgery. He said the agent who was hit by Ayers' car was treated for minor injuries.

Bankhead would not disclose the identity of the woman who was in Ayers' car, but said she's been charged with cocaine possession and distribution.

On Thursday, Ayers' brother-in-law Matt Carpenter said the pastor had nothing to do with drugs.

"Any question of his character, particularly involving something like drugs, is just ridiculous," he said.

Carpenter said Ayers and his wife had wanted to live in a town closer to their family, but they settled near the Lavonia church where Ayers felt called to be a pastor.

"They were exactly where they were supposed to be," Carpenter said, adding that they had recently led the small congregation's first mission trip, to Africa.

Carpenter said Ayers' wife, who is 16 weeks pregnant, is grappling with the idea of being a single mom.

"That's why it's hurting us all so badly," he said.

Ayers' wife declined to speak to The Associated Press.

Qcanfixit · 09-07-2009, 02:55 PM

posted by the AP on AP's youtube channel:

YouTube - Raw Video: Georgia Pastor Killed by Drug Agents

Quote:

A gas station surveillance camera captured the moments leading up to the fatal shooting of a 28-year-old pastor by undercover drug task-force agents in Tuesday. Authorities now say Jonathan Ayers was not the target of that probe. (Sept. 3)

JasonLHall · 09-07-2009, 02:57 PM

oh my god

ScubaruImpreza05 · 09-07-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonLHall

oh my god

The direction of your outrage is clearly defined and easy to spot. Congrats kind sir!

cucamelsmd15 · 09-07-2009, 03:11 PM

First thought: Dude got what was coming. He hit a cop.

Second thought: Innocent people dont run.

Machine Age Victim · 09-07-2009, 03:13 PM

ok cops or not but who would try to drive away from people pointing guns at you, last time I checked bullets were faster than cars and anything they want isn't worth dying for (if someone is after you to just kill you then they would fire at you before you try to drive away, in which case they miss you drive)

Qcanfixit · 09-07-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15

First thought: Dude got what was coming. He hit a cop.

Second thought: Innocent people dont run.

both thoughts are incorrect and have been proven wrong in and out of court.

if a group of guys dressed like gang bangers jumped out of an Escalade with guns drawn at a gas station and attempted to pull you out of your car, you would stop and have a chat?

yeah. right.

Qcanfixit · 09-07-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine Age Victim

ok cops or not but who would try to drive away from people pointing guns at you, last time I checked bullets were faster than cars and anything they want isn't worth dying for (if someone is after you to just kill you then they would fire at you before you try to drive away, in which case they miss you drive)

so your solution is to get out of your car and make yourself and easier target? is that what you are arguing for?

a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary one
that's a fact, Jack.

Five.Ten · 09-07-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15

Second thought: Innocent people dont run from the cops.

I agree with this version. If a black suv rolled up on me and a-holes with guns rolled out I am in full panic mode and hitting the gas.

ScubaruImpreza05 · 09-07-2009, 03:22 PM

Not everyone on this planet has the ability to make clear concise decisions when stressed/pushed like that. Once the gun is pointed at you your brain wants to do 2 survival things: Fight it or run like hell. At that point many people wouldn't five a damn if they had guns or not you'd want to get as far away from danger as possible.

I'm a country boy, I know if I saw some urban looking 'gangbangers' coming after me I'd be scared shizzless. Some people aren't exposed to these kind of people and are already uncomfortable around them, only seeing the bad things on TV and the stories in the newspaper. Throw guns and a black Escalade tryign to box you in? F that man....F that.

At that point, not knowing they are cops as well, it doesn't matter if you are innocent or guilty of something. You don't even know they are cops so how could you know you should even feel guilty? Hitting some thug whose trying to rob/kill you doesn't seem like a bad idea in that situation, his words after coming to a stop clearly show he doesn't know what was going on.

cucamelsmd15 · 09-07-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five.Ten

I agree with this version. If a black suv rolled up on me and a-holes with guns rolled out I am in full panic mode and hitting the gas.

Undercover cops dont just come out waving guns without badges.

Machine Age Victim · 09-07-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qcanfixit

so your solution is to get out of your car and make yourself and easier target? is that what you are arguing for?

a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary one
that's a fact, Jack.

don't get out of the car, just don't do anything, don't try to piss off someone with a gun anymore than they already are. If he's not shooting at you then he's not trying to kill you, he just wants to take something away from you, and resistance will result in him needing to use the gun

lag · 09-07-2009, 03:30 PM

What's sad is... if by chance the pastor had a legally registered fire arm w/ him and killed all of the "gang bangers/cops" in self defense he'd be ****ed for killing cops.

You're starting to see to much of these types of "mistakes" that totally **** up peoples lives.

Cop "dohppy dohppy doh, I'm going to ram my battering ram in to this guys house because I have a tip"

Home owner "awl ****, someone's trying to smash my door in and steal my stuff! :armed now w/ shot gun and unloads:"

Innocent home owner is now fuct because he killed a cop.

Five.Ten · 09-07-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15

Undercover cops dont just come out waving guns without badges.

I'm glad you can tell a fake badge from a real one when somebody is waving a gun in your face. I don't have that kind of time. When cops dress up like hoods and blur the lines between friend and enemy I don't want to play anymore and I will proceed in rapid fashion to unass the area.

lag · 09-07-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15

Undercover cops dont just come out waving guns without badges.

Yes, because if I saw a group of thugs running toward me w/ guns... I'm all about looking for badges before I freak the **** out.

Five.Ten · 09-07-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lag

What's sad is... if by chance the pastor had a legally registered fire arm w/ him and killed all of the "gang bangers/cops" in self defense he'd be ****ed for killing cops.

You're starting to see to much of these types of "mistakes" that totally **** up peoples lives.

Cop "dohppy dohppy doh, I'm going to ram my battering ram in to this guys house because I have a tip"

Home owner "awl ****, someone's trying to smash my door in and steal my stuff! :armed now w/ shot gun and unloads:"

Innocent home owner is now fuct because he killed a cop.

see common thread about no-knock warrant service

ScubaruImpreza05 · 09-07-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine Age Victim

don't get out of the car, just don't do anything, don't try to piss off someone with a gun anymore than they already are. If he's not shooting at you then he's not trying to kill you, he just wants to take something away from you, and resistance will result in him needing to use the gun

Once again, I highly doubt many humans have the clear thought at that point to do what you are saying. I sure as hell wouldn't know if I could, and I've pulled people out of cars after accidents I was actually in because they froze like those sheep in those youtube videos. It sounds real nice on paper/in text, but being in it is a far cry different than talking about it, and even if you know you would do what you say via training or what not, it doesn't mean 98% of the population would.

cucamelsmd15 · 09-07-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five.Ten

I'm glad you can tell a fake badge from a real one when somebody is waving a gun in your face. I don't have that kind of time. When cops dress up like hoods and blur the lines between friend and enemy I don't want to play anymore and I will proceed in rapid fashion to unass the area.

Yes, because gang bangers in Atlanta have every reason to carry a fake badge.

Strawman argument is strawman.

TurboneX · 09-07-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qcanfixit

both thoughts are incorrect and have been proven wrong in and out of court.

if a group of guys dressed like gang bangers jumped out of an Escalade with guns drawn at a gas station and attempted to pull you out of your car, you would stop and have a chat?

yeah. right.

I would have shot first, especially if they didnt announce they were LEO.

Five.Ten · 09-07-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15

Yes, because gang bangers in Atlanta have every reason to carry a fake badge.

Strawman argument is strawman.

How about badge or no badge you don't look like a cop and i'm leaving a-hole.

09-07-2009, 02:34 PM	#1
Qcanfixit Scooby Specialist Member#: 135762 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Fortress of Solitude, NYC Vehicle: 4002 Maximahhhhhhhh Q Wheel Drive	GA pastor shot and killed in botched drug raid c/n: obviously a biased article, as most are... just read the story source: http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2009...hed-drug-raid/ video: http://wneg32.com/images/stories/art...ance_video.mp4 Ga. pastor shot and killed in botched drug raid By Michael Hampton Posted: September 4, 2009 2:46 pm Police officers dressed as gangbangers shot and killed a northeast Georgia pastor Tuesday as he was trying to drive away from a convenience store. Jonathan Paul Ayers, 28, had been the pastor of Shoal Creek Baptist Church in Livonia for about a year before the fatal shooting. That day, police said, Ayers was seen engaging in an apparent drug transaction with, and then dropping off, a woman who was under surveillance by a northeast Georgia tri-county drug task force. The woman was later arrested on cocaine charges, but no drugs were found on Ayers or in his car. Surveillance video from the Shell station in Toccoa where the shooting took place shows Ayers coming inside to use the ATM and then, as he is trying to drive out of the parking lot, a Cadillac Escalade attempts to box him in, while what appear to be gangbangers jump out of the SUV and point guns at him. Ayers reverses direction and tries to get around the vehicle, and one of the gangbangers runs into the vehicle’s path and is apparently struck lightly. At this point Ayers puts the car in drive again and the gangbangers start shooting at Ayers. “He was struggling with the agents. He got back into the car, put the car in drive and started driving toward the other agent who fired two shots in to the automobile,” Stephens County sheriff Randy Shirley told WSB radio. But the store surveillance video shows Ayers was already driving away when what appeared to be gangbangers arrived and blocked his car. Later it would be learned that the gangbangers were undercover police officers, something store owner Joe Joseph said he didn’t know when he heard the gunshots. “I saw the first gunshot outside,” he said. “And I was looking outside, I saw a red Honda car backing up — backed up where the air machine is and stopped … I thought they were shooting each other. I didn’t know they were undercover agents. There was nothing marked.” They shot two more times (after) the second shot, he took off,” Joseph said. “I think whatever they’ve done is wrong because in a business place and the daytime.” — WYFF-TV “I had a parking lot full of people,” Joseph told WNEG-TV. “I mean they could have blown up one of my pumps and that would have been a total mess.” Ayers reportedly crashed into a utility pole a short distance away and was taken to the hospital. “Who shot me?” he asked EMTs who responded. Ayers’ brother-in-law, Matt Carpenter, says that this means he did not know the gangbangers were also undercover police officers. “I think it scared him,” when the black Cadillac Escalade pulled next to Ayers’ car and two men got out with guns drawn, said Carpenter. Carpenter said that’s why he tried to speed away. . . . “I’ve rerun it in my mind,” Carpenter said. “He had used an ATM inside, got into his car and then a black Escalade pulled up and [they] jumped out . . . If they ID’d themselves, he couldn’t hear them because his windows were up.” — Atlanta Journal-Constitution The Cadillac Escalade is popular among gangbangers of both the ordinary criminal variety and the police variety. “They deserve punishment,” said Ayers’ sister, Rebecca Floyd. “They deserve to feel somewhat of the pain we’re feeling, because I can’t get my brother back he’s gone forever.” Floyd said there’s no way her younger brother would have run if he would have known the men who had guns were officers. The officers were undercover and weren’t in uniform, but investigators said they had badges around their necks and clearly identified themselves. “I think anyone in that situation would run,” Floyd said. “I know I would. If someone pulled up to me with guns, I would run.” She said her brother was known to help strangers. “I could bet my life on it he did not know her,” she said. “I could bet my life on it, because that’s the kind of person he was. He was a good Christian man, and that was his goal was to lead souls to Christ.” — WYFF-TV The Georgia Bureau of Investigation has launched an investigation into the shooting. The two gangbangers, who were not named, are on paid vacation until the investigation is complete. I can tell you now what the results of the investigation will be. Despite the fact that statements by the sheriff are contradicted by the surveillance video, the investigation will find that the officers followed “proper procedures” and will not be subject to any sort of justice. Police procedures generally allow for shooting at the driver of a car which strikes an officer, which explains why one of the officers ran himself into its way. Though these police officers will not likely face justice in this life, there is always the next. Ayers is survived by his wife Abby, who is 16 weeks pregnant. Jonathan Ayers is the latest victim of Richard Nixon’s long-running, unwinnable, immoral “War on Drugs.” By making illegal things which have no business being illegal in the first place, it has undermined the Constitution and the rule of law itself, turned millions of honest people into “criminals,” caused thousands of innocent people to lose their money, cars and even homes, without ever being charged with a crime, and resulted in countless deaths of innocent people. It has wrought destruction on our society to a scale unequaled by any other U.S. government program. Ayers showed us by example what we should be doing: minister to those in need, instead of throwing them in cages at taxpayer expense and allowing innocent Americans to get caught in the crossfire. It’s time to end the War on Drugs before any more innocent people lose their cars, their homes or their lives. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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09-07-2009, 02:39 PM	#2
ScubaruImpreza05 Scooby Specialist Member#: 74041 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: A-town PA Vehicle: I Like PIE!	Oh, he's just a pastor and a religious nutjob, he got what Darwin wanted him too. (go go gadget Tarp mode!)

09-07-2009, 02:44 PM	#4
ScubaruImpreza05 Scooby Specialist Member#: 74041 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: A-town PA Vehicle: I Like PIE!	I don't know that stupid code to make it cammo with the background

09-07-2009, 02:48 PM	#5
Five.Ten NASIOC Supporter Member#: 90890 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mammoth Vehicle: 2003 WRX wag MBP	Thanks for that feel good piece this morning Q. I hope the officers were able to further justify whatever the hell went down and that they will shed a little more light on this incident cause right now it stinks.

09-07-2009, 02:52 PM	#6
Qcanfixit Scooby Specialist Member#: 135762 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Fortress of Solitude, NYC Vehicle: 4002 Maximahhhhhhhh Q Wheel Drive	Michael Hampton used and provided links to multiple sources for his article but here's the AP version anyway: source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...iMr9QD9AG77000 Ga. pastor, father-to-be killed in drug sting By DIONNE WALKER (AP) – 3 days ago ATLANTA — Plainclothes officers shot and killed a small-town pastor when the 28-year-old father-to-be resisted efforts to question him about a passenger in his car who was the target of a drug sting, authorities said. Jonathan Paul Ayers of Shoal Creek Baptist Church in Lavonia wasn't targeted in the probe that ended in gunfire at a gas station Tuesday, Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead said. But drug task-force agents opened fire on him after he tried to avoid them, putting his car in reverse and striking one of the officers. Bankhead said agents approached Ayers after he dropped a woman off at a store in downtown Toccoa, which is about 90 miles northeast of Atlanta. The passenger was the person being investigated by the task force. A grainy surveillance video from a nearby store shows two drug task-force agents emerge from a black SUV before Ayers' small car backs up. The two men fire into the passenger side of Ayers' car, and then it takes off with the agents running behind it, the video posted on WNEG-TV in Toccoa shows. The station owner would not release the video to The Associated Press. Bankhead said Ayers died Wednesday, about an hour after he had surgery. He said the agent who was hit by Ayers' car was treated for minor injuries. Bankhead would not disclose the identity of the woman who was in Ayers' car, but said she's been charged with cocaine possession and distribution. On Thursday, Ayers' brother-in-law Matt Carpenter said the pastor had nothing to do with drugs. "Any question of his character, particularly involving something like drugs, is just ridiculous," he said. Carpenter said Ayers and his wife had wanted to live in a town closer to their family, but they settled near the Lavonia church where Ayers felt called to be a pastor. "They were exactly where they were supposed to be," Carpenter said, adding that they had recently led the small congregation's first mission trip, to Africa. Carpenter said Ayers' wife, who is 16 weeks pregnant, is grappling with the idea of being a single mom. "That's why it's hurting us all so badly," he said. Ayers' wife declined to speak to The Associated Press.

09-07-2009, 02:57 PM	#8
JasonLHall Scooby Specialist Member#: 111318 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Sammamish, WA Vehicle: 2002 WRX WRB	oh my god

09-07-2009, 03:11 PM	#10
cucamelsmd15 Scooby Specialist Member#: 122980 Join Date: Aug 2006 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Raleigh, NC Vehicle: 08.5 MS3, 06 Legacy 92 Miata 15/115 STS	First thought: Dude got what was coming. He hit a cop. Second thought: Innocent people dont run.

09-07-2009, 03:13 PM	#11
Machine Age Victim Scooby Specialist Member#: 29961 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: South East Location: in the penis part of the USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy wagon 2001 Kawasaki ZR-7S	ok cops or not but who would try to drive away from people pointing guns at you, last time I checked bullets were faster than cars and anything they want isn't worth dying for (if someone is after you to just kill you then they would fire at you before you try to drive away, in which case they miss you drive)

09-07-2009, 03:22 PM	#15
ScubaruImpreza05 Scooby Specialist Member#: 74041 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: A-town PA Vehicle: I Like PIE!	Not everyone on this planet has the ability to make clear concise decisions when stressed/pushed like that. Once the gun is pointed at you your brain wants to do 2 survival things: Fight it or run like hell. At that point many people wouldn't five a damn if they had guns or not you'd want to get as far away from danger as possible. I'm a country boy, I know if I saw some urban looking 'gangbangers' coming after me I'd be scared shizzless. Some people aren't exposed to these kind of people and are already uncomfortable around them, only seeing the bad things on TV and the stories in the newspaper. Throw guns and a black Escalade tryign to box you in? F that man....F that. At that point, not knowing they are cops as well, it doesn't matter if you are innocent or guilty of something. You don't even know they are cops so how could you know you should even feel guilty? Hitting some thug whose trying to rob/kill you doesn't seem like a bad idea in that situation, his words after coming to a stop clearly show he doesn't know what was going on.

09-07-2009, 03:30 PM	#18
lag Scooby Newbie Member#: 34631 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Baltimore Suburbs Vehicle: 2006 Legacy GT brilliant silver	What's sad is... if by chance the pastor had a legally registered fire arm w/ him and killed all of the "gang bangers/cops" in self defense he'd be **ed for killing cops. You're starting to see to much of these types of "mistakes" that totally up peoples lives. Cop "dohppy dohppy doh, I'm going to ram my battering ram in to this guys house because I have a tip" Home owner "awl **, someone's trying to smash my door in and steal my stuff! :armed now w/ shot gun and unloads:" Innocent home owner is now fuct because he killed a cop.