New manual transmission learner stalling problem

[lxjzhang]

After driving auto transmission for seven years I decided to get a manual transmission (and a good WRX), hoping to have some real driving fun. Now it's getting a little frustrated after learning it about a week - it's the crazy stalling that sometime happens when starting. I did follow some threads here on learning manual transmission, and I think I do understand how manual transmission works and how the clutch and gas should work together to balance. Here's what I try to do - rev to 2000 rpm and start releasing the clutch. I know once the transmission and engine start engaging, I should slow down releasing the clutch. However, the stalling makes me feel the engaging point is so tricky. I just came back from practice and there were two times I guess I just barely crossed the POINT before slowing down and the car stalled and jerked really hard - I was even thinking I'm killing the transmission (of the new car) if I keep letting this happen.

Any suggestion that may help me avoid the stalling better?

Frustrating manual transmission learner

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[chen5108]

When ever in doubt clutch in to save! Or you might just want to give it more gas.

[redsoxwin]

Originally Posted by lxjzhang

After driving auto transmission for seven years I decided to get a manual transmission (and a good WRX), hoping to have some real driving fun. Now it's getting a little frustrated after learning it about a week - it's the crazy stalling that sometime happens when starting. I did follow some threads here on learning manual transmission, and I think I do understand how manual transmission works and how the clutch and gas should work together to balance. Here's what I try to do - rev to 2000 rpm and start releasing the clutch. I know once the transmission and engine start engaging, I should slow down releasing the clutch. However, the stalling makes me feel the engaging point is so tricky. I just came back from practice and there were two times I guess I just barely cross the POINT before slowing down and the car stalled and jerked really hard - I was even thinking I'm killing the transmission (of the new car) if I keep letting this happen.

Any suggestion that may help me avoid the stalling better?

Frustrating manual transmission learner

Shifting FAQ on the Manifesto help?

[lxjzhang]

Originally Posted by redsoxwin

Shifting FAQ on the Manifesto help?

That's where I started and where I learned the theory to start with. Just wonder if there may be some additional practical hints/tricks...

[ROFLBOXER]

When in doubt, add gas!

Thats how I learned.... you get the smell of burnt clutch once or twice, rather than the horrible lurch of a stall, and then you figure out the happy medium.

[i_c_the_light]

Originally Posted by redsoxwin

Shifting FAQ on the Manifesto help?

This. **** I've been doing the whole manual trans thing for donkeys and yet I can't for the life of me teach or explain anyone how to do it. Probably because I don't have to think about the process.

[corzy666]

When I first started to learn my brother gave me a good tip. Don't give it any gas, but let off the clutch very slowly until you start moving a tiny bit and then add some gas and slowly take your foot off the clutch and you should be good. =)

[lxjzhang]

Originally Posted by Loud OBK

When in doubt, add gas!

Thats how I learned.... you get the smell of burnt clutch once or twice, rather than the horrible lurch of a stall, and then you figure out the happy medium.

OK, I'll keep this as the first hint or at least something to try... Thanks much.

[SonicScooby27]

i started driving stick back in late april....i was use to it fairly quickly..but i'm still working on my downshifting...i can do it good when i have plenty of time to just let off on the gas and slightly brake(like coming up to a stop sign or a red light way ahead), but i cant down shift under some what pressure like a red light thats pretty close...i just throw it into neutral and brake..better to get new brakes then a new clutch/tranny......then again, i think my car would be alot easier to learn on then a subaru..

[lxjzhang]

Originally Posted by corzy666

When I first started to learn my brother gave me a good tip. Don't give it any gas, but let off the clutch very slowly until you start moving a tiny bit and then add some gas and slowly take your foot off the clutch and you should be good. =)

Yes, this is where I started too and it worked well. But sooner or later, one needs to figure out how to more quickly start. I mean what do you do when making a left turn and there's incoming traffic (I know the right answer is yield which is what I do, but yielding to a car not so close may look silly and the driver behind you may not be happy to wait forever with you - just as an example).

[amitch45]

Here's how I think about it. The more the clutch is in, the slower you will speed up when you start going forward. You *could* rev all the way up to 4-5k when starting. But if you keep the clutch in about 25-50%, you wont just "take" off. After a red light or similar, when I start, I rev up and release the clutch only a little as I start moving forward. It's like i'm controlling it with the clutch.

ps: forgive me if that's hard to understand or if it completely does not make sense.

[lotarg]

It's only been a week- you will feel it out over time and get used to it. Suggestions online are only going to do so much for you.

[JOHN16V]

Hi neighbor, where MN are you from?

I was just like you few years ago....give it sometime and a little more gas! You'll be driving in no-time!

GL

[SnakeFart]

Ive been driving manual transmissions for about 7 years. 4 cars all manual. The best and fastest way to truly learn about slipping the clutch to get that sweet spot is find a hill. My 09 wrx isn't "supposed" to have hill assist but it does keep the brakes engaged for some reason after putting it in gear. If your car does have assist. Just hold the clutch in a nd in gear, release brake wait about 1 second thew care should start rolling backwards on you. After a few times let the clutch out slowly. No need to Ken Block it. (Hit gas and release clutch without slipping). After a few times of getting the car moving add some gas. Before long you won't even have to think about "slipping" it just kinda happens.

Also as for engine braking while braking to come to an abrupt stop. You gotta be careful. Practice in a largw parking lot or a high school park lot. Once you get comfortable try it a few times to stop at a stop sign the more you can practice the less you will have to think about it.

[SnakeFart]

Double post.

So ill ad this.

Don't worry about. Rev matching during downshifts. You only need it during racing or hpde in a controlled environment. Its also called double clutch when using the heel toe technique.

[racer580]

Originally Posted by lotarg

It's only been a week- you will feel it out over time and get used to it. Suggestions online are only going to do so much for you.

This is very true. We can tell you and show you how to do it exactly to a tee, but unless you keep practicing at it, you'll never get anywhere. When I was teaching my sister to drive stick on my WRX, she did the most violent stalls I have ever been in/seen; probably yours times ten, seriously. Then my mom tells her the exact same thing I was telling her and she picks it up in 5 mins . Anyways, letting the clutch out with no gas is a good tip and another one is to just pretend its a balance beam. As the gas goes further down, the clutch comes further out, pretty much at the same rate. Try not to be embarrassed either. Stalling out and then freaking out with 10 cars behind you isn't going to do you any good because you'll just end up panicking. You just have to learn to recover rather quickly. Its also different on different shoes. Today I stalled out for the first time in a few months because I wore a pair of really loose shoes and it felt weird. Your comfort zone is a pretty big factor as well.

[skylinerally09]

Originally Posted by SnakeFart

Ive been driving manual transmissions for about 7 years. 4 cars all manual. The best and fastest way to truly learn about slipping the clutch to get that sweet spot is find a hill. My 09 wrx isn't "supposed" to have hill assist but it does keep the brakes engaged for some reason after putting it in gear. If your car does have assist. Just hold the clutch in a nd in gear, release brake wait about 1 second thew care should start rolling backwards on you. After a few times let the clutch out slowly. No need to Ken Block it. (Hit gas and release clutch without slipping). After a few times of getting the car moving add some gas. Before long you won't even have to think about "slipping" it just kinda happens.

Also as for engine braking while braking to come to an abrupt stop. You gotta be careful. Practice in a largw parking lot or a high school park lot. Once you get comfortable try it a few times to stop at a stop sign the more you can practice the less you will have to think about it.

This is a good technique, however in any manual car i drive i slowly start letting out the clutch with NO gas till i start feeling it grab just a smidgin. THAT is your clutch engagement point. Once you know that you know exactly when your clutch is going to start engaging and you can add gas and just take off. Sometimes for fun i give it a few revs as i slip the clutch. Makes it easier.

- As for DOWN SHIFTING.. just know the range of your gears and make sure when you downshift that you are within that range. And REMEMBER that you are in a gear when coming to a stop. Usually the last 10feet i clutch in and brake the rest of the way.

[racer580]

^^^ for skylinerally09, not sure if when you approach a stop if you clutch in and brake the whole way, or clutch in, neutral, and then brake but ya when you come to a stop, its better to just be in neutral. Also, when your at the light or stop sign or w/e it may be, its best to sit in neutral, not with the clutch in and in gear. Just trying to save you some clutch wear

[lxjzhang]

Originally Posted by JOHN16V

Hi neighbor, where MN are you from?

I was just like you few years ago....give it sometime and a little more gas! You'll be driving in no-time!

GL

Hello, I live in St. Paul and just got out of the graduate school from the U last year - time to have some real fun but need to master the WRX first...

[lxjzhang]

Originally Posted by amitch45

Here's how I think about it. The more the clutch is in, the slower you will speed up when you start going forward. You *could* rev all the way up to 4-5k when starting. But if you keep the clutch in about 25-50%, you wont just "take" off. After a red light or similar, when I start, I rev up and release the clutch only a little as I start moving forward. It's like i'm controlling it with the clutch.

ps: forgive me if that's hard to understand or if it completely does not make sense.

I understand what you are saying and it makes perfect sense...

[SnakeFart]

Originally Posted by racer580

Its also different on different shoes. Today I stalled out for the first time in a few months because I wore a pair of really loose shoes and it felt weird. Your comfort zone is a pretty big factor as well.

Another tip, adjust your seat properly. You shouldn't have the gangster lean. When you press the clutch all the way to the floor your left knee should have a slight bend. You don't want to use your ankle to make it go all the way down.

[ROFLBOXER]

One more word of advice, elaborating on the "balance beam" reference. Think of the gas and clutch as opposites. clutch out = gas in. clutch in = gas out.

[lxjzhang]

Originally Posted by SnakeFart

Another tip, adjust your seat properly. You shouldn't have the gangster lean. When you press the clutch all the way to the floor your left knee should have a slight bend. You don't want to use your ankle to make it go all the way down.

Will do - this should help to control the clutch better as I can understand. Thanks.

[racer580]

Originally Posted by lxjzhang

Will do - this should help to control the clutch better as I can understand. Thanks.

Adjusting the seat helped me sooo much. Im a pretty tall kid at 6'3" and I have the seat pretty far forward with my back pretty much straight up, and the height as high up as the seat will go. When I was first learning, the seat was far back and leaned back as well. Then my dad drove and adjusted the seat because he was telling me "How do you drive like this ?¿?¿" and so instead of having to horizontally move your leg when the seat is pulled back (which is pretty strenuous and not much control), you just need to pretty much press up and down on the clutch which made everything so much easier, because of the fact that your right on top of the clutch now.

[moestock]

Sounds like you just need to let the clutch out slower. Practice getting moving smoothly without using the gas at all, you'll have to let the clutch out very slow to avoid stalling or bucking. Once you have that down, give it some gas and you can let the clutch out faster, but with the same motion as without gas.
The more gas you give, the faster you can leave the clutch out. Hope that helps, in a month or so it'll be second nature.

Plus remember you are learning on a new Subaru clutch, which can be grabby, so it will just get easier with time as you break in the car.