Shift Knock

jagstyle · 09-27-2009, 04:29 PM

Fourth gear pulls are clean:

Code:

Time    Load    RPM    FBKC   MAFv    WOT    AFR    Timing
02719    0.54    2219    0    1.86    12     15.07    49.5
02844    0.56    2221    0    1.92    12     14.73    49
02984    0.56    2233    0    1.88    12     14.08    49
03109    0.58    2240    0    1.96    13     14.61    49
03234    0.63    2236    0    2.04    14     14.61    47.5
03359    0.71    2247    0    2.08    15     14.69    46
03500    0.76    2263    0    2.14    16     15.14    45
03640    0.91    2283    0    2.50    30     15.27    40.5
03765    1.30    2260    0    2.62    71     14.49    26.5
03890    1.42    2296    0    2.66    72     14.49    22.5
04031    1.46    2317    0    2.66    72     15.51    21
04187    1.51    2365    0    2.66    78     15.46    20
04328    1.58    2402    0    2.76    91     15.44    18.5
04453    1.65    2426    0    2.78    100    15.13    17
04578    1.72    2443    0    2.80    100    14.45    16
04703    1.80    2469    0    2.88    100    14.45    15
04844    1.88    2480    0    2.90    100    13.76    14
04969    1.98    2501    0    2.92    100    13.52    13.5
05078    2.03    2551    0    2.98    100    13.14    13
05234    2.09    2597    0    3.02    100    12.30    11.5
05375    2.13    2648    0    3.02    100    12.30    10.5
05500    2.17    2683    0    3.08    100    12.20    10.5
05625    2.19    2728    0    3.12    100    12.01    10.5
05765    2.22    2763    0    3.18    100    12.16    12
05906    2.25    2794    0    3.20    100    12.32    12
06047    2.29    2822    0    3.26    100    12.32    12.5
06172    2.37    2860    0    3.32    100    12.36    12.5
06312    2.41    2913    0    3.36    100    12.63    12.5
06469    2.53    2954    0    3.42    100    12.82    12.5
06594    2.68    3016    0    3.48    100    12.77    13
06734    2.79    3068    0    3.56    100    12.77    13
06859    2.94    3120    0    3.60    100    12.50    12.5
06984    3.14    3166    0    3.68    100    12.05    12
07109    3.34    3210    0    3.80    100    11.98    12
07250    3.56    3286    0    3.90    100    11.73    12
07390    3.92    3375    0    4.02    100    11.73    12
07515    4.32    3449    0    4.16    100    11.42    12.5
07640    4.73    3518    0    4.28    100    11.30    12.5
07781    5.00    3634    0    4.40    100    11.07    12.5
07922    5.04    3709    0    4.40    100    11.48    13
08078    4.99    3799    0    4.44    100    11.48    13
08203    4.94    3888    0    4.48    100    11.61    13
08328    4.95    3976    0    4.50    100    11.72    13
08469    4.92    4094    0    4.54    100    11.64    13
08609    4.88    4205    0    4.58    100    11.76    13
08765    4.85    4274    0    4.58    100    11.55    13.5
08890    4.89    4408    0    4.60    100    11.55    13.5
09015    4.85    4484    0    4.64    100    11.82    13.5
09140    4.84    4589    0    4.66    100    11.80    13.5
09265    4.79    4673    0    4.68    100    11.55    13.5
09390    4.76    4758    0    4.70    100    11.60    13.5
09531    4.71    4838    0    4.70    100    11.60    14
09672    4.69    4894    0    4.72    100    11.66    14
09812    4.59    5018    0    4.74    100    11.80    14
09953    4.54    5086    0    4.74    100    11.75    14
10078    4.53    5176    0    4.76    100    11.66    14
10203    4.51    5247    0    4.78    100    11.72    14.5
10344    4.49    5341    0    4.80    100    11.72    14.5
10469    4.45    5454    0    4.82    100    11.77    15
10609    4.42    5481    0    4.80    100    11.67    15.5
10734    4.39    5557    0    4.80    100    11.64    15.5
10859    4.37    5666    0    4.82    100    11.64    16
10984    4.30    5808    0    4.84    100    11.82    17
11109    4.33    5809    0    4.84    100    11.86    17
11234    4.31    5849    0    4.84    100    12.01    17.5
11375    4.25    5936    0    4.84    100    11.89    18
11515    4.20    6009    0    4.86    100    11.89    18.5
11640    4.19    6096    0    4.88    100    11.89    19
11765    4.13    6191    0    4.88    100    11.83    19.5
11890    4.13    6200    0    4.86    100    11.72    19.5
12031    4.11    6258    0    4.88    100    11.79    20
12156    4.04    6376    0    4.86    100    11.79    20.5
12281    4.01    6430    0    4.88    100    11.66    21
12437    3.95    6559    0    4.88    100    11.91    22
12562    3.96    6555    0    4.90    100    11.98    22
12734    3.91    6584    0    4.88    100    11.98    22
12875    3.88    6700    0    4.90    100    12.04    22.5
13000    3.85    6762    0    4.88    100    12.04    23
13125    3.79    6772    0    4.88    100    11.98    23
13250    3.76    6870    0    4.88    100    11.58    23.5
13390    3.72    6926    0    4.88    100    12.04    23.5

But I get bad shift knock when hammering through the gears (2-3-4):

Code:

Time    Load    RPM    FBKC       AFR    Timing
00000    0.42    1939    0        13.64    48.5
00125    0.46    1928    0        14.52    48.5
00266    0.48    1956    0        14.52    48.5
00375    0.49    1964    0        14.73    48.5
00516    0.52    1976    0        14.27    49
00641    0.58    2023    0        14.45    48.5
00750    0.64    2031    0        14.45    47
00859    0.65    2067    0        14.71    46.5
00984    0.69    2086    0        15.21    46
01109    0.75    2140    0        14.71    44.5
01234    0.83    2171    0        14.71    42.5
01359    1.16    2247    0        14.42    32.5
01484    1.38    2316    0        14.41    24
01609    1.46    2437    0        15.74    22
01734    1.52    2486    0        15.74    20.5
01859    1.56    2610    0        15.16    20
01969    1.67    2702    0        13.82    18.5
02094    1.78    2814    0        13.54    17.5
02203    1.88    2906    0        13.54    16.5
02328    1.96    3000    0        12.55    15.5
02453    2.01    3124    0        11.80    15.5
02578    2.06    3282    0        11.86    15.5
02703    2.16    3392    0        11.86    12
02828    2.35    3532    0        12.02    12.5
02937    2.56    3677    0        11.76    12.5
03062    2.86    3838    0        11.30    13
03172    3.21    4012    0        11.30    13
03297    3.83    4221    0        10.86    13
03406    4.38    4453    0        10.64    13.5
03531    4.74    4758    0        10.64    13.5
03656    4.63    5010    0        10.50    14
03766    4.50    5254    0        11.33    14.5
03891    4.41    5556    0        11.50    15.5
04016    4.28    5859    0        11.50    17.5
04156    4.14    6143    0        11.61    19.5
04281    4.00    6430    0        11.61    21
04391    3.89    6650    0        11.63    22.5
04531    3.75    6900    0        11.63    23.5
04656    2.16    6547    0        11.75    -12
04781    0.99    6173    0        11.91    -16
04891    1.67    6180    0        12.33    39
05000    3.22    4698    0        12.33    13.5
05125    3.78    5162    -1.41    12.41    11.5
05234    4.56    5073    -2.81    10.50    10
05359    4.65    5070    -4.22    10.48    10
05484    4.51    5262    -4.22    10.48    10
05609    4.43    5424    -4.22    11.19    11
05719    4.38    5564    -4.22    11.50    11.5
05844    4.36    5630    -4.22    11.50    12
05984    4.31    5776    -5.62    11.55    11.5
06094    4.26    5892    -5.62    11.32    12
06234    4.19    5989    -5.62    11.75    12.5
06359    4.17    6113    -7.03    11.75    12
06469    4.11    6264    -7.03    11.80    13
06578    4.04    6362    -8.44    11.75    12.5
06719    4.01    6396    -8.44    11.77    12.5
06844    3.93    6506    -8.44    11.77    13.5
06953    3.43    6669    -8.09    11.83    -18.5
07062    1.22    6234    -3.52    11.79    -15
07187    0.79    5926    0        12.04    -13.5
07328    0.91    5031    0        12.04    33.5
07437    2.17    4958    0        11.26    16
07547    3.04    4984    -1.41    14.14    12.5
07672    3.90    5108    -1.41    14.14    12.5
07797    4.53    5154    -2.81    10.86    11.5
07922    4.47    5193    -2.81    10.53    11.5
08031    4.43    5226    -2.81    11.32    11.5
08172    4.42    5304    -2.81    11.32    12
08297    4.41    5382    -2.81    11.66    12
08422    4.39    5450    -2.81    11.67    12.5
08531    4.39    5495    -2.81    11.69    12.5
08641    4.36    5566    -2.81    11.69    13
08750    4.33    5663    -2.46    11.57    14
08891    4.32    5725    -2.46    11.64    14
09016    4.28    5746    -2.46    11.79    14.5
09141    4.23    5842    -2.46    11.79    15
09250    4.20    5936    -2.46    11.82    15.5
09375    4.19    5943    -2.46    11.83    15.5
09516    4.16    6035    -2.46    11.73    16
09641    4.09    6172    -2.46    11.73    17
09750    3.96    6399    -2.46    11.86    18.5
09875    4.04    6353    -2.11    11.79    18.5
10000    4.04    6316    -2.11    11.79    18.5
10125    3.97    6432    -2.11    11.94    19
10250    3.98    6369    -2.11    11.86    19
10375    3.95    6418    -2.11    11.89    19.5
10484    3.90    6489    -2.11    11.89    19.5
10594    3.90    6543    -2.11    11.92    20
10734    3.88    6634    -2.11    11.89    20
10875    3.88    6641    -2.11    11.82    20.5
10984    1.95    6379    0        11.82    -11
11078    1.04    6061    0        11.72    -16
11203    0.71    5740    0        11.63    30.5
11312    1.03    5646    0        11.63    37
11422    0.52    5486    0        10.16    25.5
11547    0.37    5564    0        13.20    25
11672    0.31    5626    0        12.29    22
11797    0.30    5544    0        12.29    19
11937    0.31    5392    0        10.25    15.5
12047    0.26    5406    0        11.45    12.5
12172    0.23    5311    0        10.92    9.5
12297    0.21    5249    0        10.92    9
12422    0.20    5217    0        11.32    9
12547    0.20    5141    0        12.48    24
12656    0.21    5105    0        13.64    24
12781    0.21    5024    0        13.64    24
12906    0.22    4977    0        14.41    24
13031    0.19    4965    0        15.24    24
13156    0.19    4896    0        15.14    24
13297    0.21    4851    0        15.14    24
13422    0.20    4792    0        15.08    24
13547    0.22    4736    0        16.92    24
13672    0.21    4690    0        16.14    24
13781    0.21    4622    0        16.14    24
13891    0.21    4570    0        18.89    24
14031    0.23    4494    0        20.33    24
14141    0.21    4456    0        20.33    24
14250    0.23    4398    0        20.33    24
14359    0.23    4303    0        20.33    24
14469    0.21    4271    0        20.33    24
14578    0.20    4230    0        20.33    24
14703    0.22    4159    0        20.33    24

Info that I could find on the issue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaus

This used to be the case when we ran the 11.7 a couple years ago. The 06 ECU in particular had a nasty shifting issue that allowed downsti to only run 1 clean run out of about 5. That issue has been long resolved and now the stock ECU 100% consistent. I have 6-7 pulls out of this car that are within 2whp of eachother. There is also ZERO shift knock even with Sean's madman shifting skills

This consistency will make it MUCH easier for Sean to nail down some serious times again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaus

Shift knock and any shifting inconsistencies having to do with the stock ECU is a thing of the past. With the help of Cobb and some knowledgeable openEcu folks, we worked out the shift fuel cut issue over a year ago. Shift knock has always been a tuning issue and I had that worked out almost 3 years ago. The stock ECU is a powerful tool... it just takes some work to get it to do what you want

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaus

As far as shifting issues, there were two completely separate issues at play. One is a fuel cut as soon as you get into the next gear. This would only happen if you shift quickly enough to maintain more than 9psi of boost between gears. If this occurred, the ECU would cut fuel in the next gear until it saw boost drop bellow 9psi. This meant that the driver had to almost completely lift off the throttle to avoid the fuel cut. Sean managed to run his 11.7 pass with this issue by fully lifting off the throttle between every gear but still managed to shift with insane speed. Of course he couldn't do this consistently, so he could only get 1 out of 5 runs clean.

The other issue is actual shift knock where the ECU pulls timing as soon as you hit the next gear. This can be split up into false shift knock and actual shift knock.

False shift knock generally happens from things hitting (downpipe, intake, FMIC piping, motor mounts, etc, etc). Tracking these issues down is difficult but extremely important as there is no good way to work around false shift knock without disabling the knock sensor.

Real shift knock can and should be tuned out. Sometimes its a result of boost spiking in which case boost needs to be tweaked or the mapping needs to be adjusted to support the spike. More commonly, however, shift knock occurs from transitional areas in the timing map that rarely get tuned and are hard to spot. That's about all the detail I'm willing to give out on this particular issue as I spent a lot of time figuring it out. I'd be happy to explain it in more detail during one of my tuner training sessions.

Thanks
-- Ed

NASIOC - VF39 + E85 = downsti at it again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaus

Make sure the tuner tunes out shift knock. This will be impossible unless you guys take it out on the road and do some drag racing simulation runs with full speed shifting. Shift knock can slow you down a ton even if you're making big peak hp numbers on the dyno.

-- Ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaus

The ECU doesn't just "think" its knocking... its pulling timing in response to real knock that occurs during the hard shift transition. This is all in the tuning in most cases.

-- Ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaus

Negative... in most cases its simply too much ignition advance in the low-mid load sites in the upper RPM's. The ECU transitions through this area very quickly during a hard shift and that's what causes most of the shift knock I've seen. The fact that you can tune it out by tweaking these transitional areas verifies that the ECU is indeed seeing real knock, not false knock. There are, however, some cars that have real false knock but that is usually caused by poor wiring, bad grounds, or poor clearances causing things to tap (downpipe, headers, etc).

Thanks
-- Ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Turner

Its the large change in timing causing the knock. Its also possible your fuel or MAF table needs work but in most cases shift knock is caused by Skipping through the timing map like a stone thrown at the water edge of a lake skipping along the surface of the water.

Clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Turner

Your logger is to slow to capture the skipping.

Clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Turner

I tune alot of stand alone systems that do not have this limitation. On those you can easily see this happening. On the subarus, I have a special logger that someone helped me right that runs about twice the speed of the free downloadable loggers. It works in a terminal window and it only logs 3 perams at once.

If you minimize the differences between each cell you will likely cure this issue. If you are landing in one area after a shift and can see that... Drop some fuel right there and the shift knock will go away.

Clark

Clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaus

Try logging just a couple parameters... rpm, load, kc. This will speed up your sample rate greatly. Also use your imagination and try to think where the ECU will land in your maps during a shift. Make changes to cells before the ones you're currently seeing in the logs and experiment until the shift knock is gone.

-- Ed

NASIOC - How to tune specifically for drag racing?

Questions:

In detail, how do I tune this out?

Is the issue in the timing map? Do I need to lower timing in the load load cells? How much are we talking about?

Does anyone have an example of a map where they tuned out shift knock?

Thanks!

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cash1220 · 09-28-2009, 03:00 AM

can you post your timing map? i tuned out my shift knock issues by not advancing as much timing in the high rpm low load cells. dont worry so much about your low load high rpm cells because your turbo is going to spool quick and you'll spend most of your time in the high load cells anyways.

jagstyle · 09-29-2009, 04:15 AM

can you show me your maps before and after you tuned out shift knock?

here's my timing map:

base:

Code:

[Table3D] 0.25	0.40	0.55	0.70	0.85	1.00	1.15	1.30	1.45	1.60	1.78	1.97	2.05	2.20	2.30	2.50	3.00	4.00	5.00
800	30.27	32.03	29.92	25.35	20.43	13.40	5.31	0.74	-2.07	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12
1200	38.36	41.17	38.71	35.20	29.92	22.19	14.45	9.18	6.37	4.26	2.85	1.45	0.04	-0.66	-1.37	-0.66	-0.66	-0.66	-0.66
1600	43.63	46.09	45.04	42.23	37.30	30.27	22.89	16.21	11.64	8.12	6.02	4.61	3.20	2.15	1.45	2.15	2.15	2.15	2.15
2000	47.15	49.26	48.91	46.45	42.23	36.25	28.52	21.13	15.86	11.99	9.18	7.42	5.66	4.26	3.55	3.55	3.55	3.55	3.55
2400	48.91	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	39.06	31.33	24.30	19.38	15.16	11.99	9.88	7.77	6.37	5.31	4.61	4.61	4.61	4.61
2800	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.12	33.79	26.76	21.84	17.97	14.45	11.99	10.23	8.83	7.42	6.02	6.02	6.02	6.02
3200	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.82	35.20	28.87	24.30	20.43	16.91	14.10	12.34	10.94	9.53	7.07	7.07	7.07	7.07
3600	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.82	35.90	30.62	25.70	22.19	19.02	16.21	14.10	12.70	11.29	7.77	7.77	7.77	7.77
4000	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	40.82	36.60	31.68	27.11	23.59	20.43	17.62	15.51	13.40	12.34	8.12	8.12	8.12	8.12
4400	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	40.82	36.95	32.38	27.81	24.30	21.13	18.32	16.21	14.45	13.05	8.48	8.48	8.48	8.48
4800	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	41.17	37.66	33.09	28.87	25.00	21.84	19.38	17.27	15.16	13.75	8.83	8.83	8.83	8.83
5200	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	41.52	38.01	33.79	29.92	26.05	23.24	20.43	18.32	16.56	14.80	9.18	9.18	9.18	9.18
5600	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	41.88	38.71	34.49	30.98	27.81	24.65	22.19	19.73	17.97	16.56	10.94	10.94	10.94	10.94
6000	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.69	41.88	38.71	35.55	32.03	29.22	26.05	23.59	21.48	19.73	18.32	13.40	13.40	13.40	13.40
6400	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.69	42.23	39.06	35.90	32.73	30.27	27.46	25.00	23.24	21.48	20.43	16.21	16.21	16.21	16.21
6800	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.69	42.58	39.41	36.60	33.79	30.98	28.52	26.41	24.65	22.89	21.84	18.32	18.32	18.32	18.32
7200	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.69	42.58	39.41	36.95	34.49	32.03	29.57	27.46	25.70	24.30	23.24	19.38	19.38	19.38	19.38
7600	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.69	42.58	39.41	36.95	34.84	32.73	30.27	28.52	26.76	25.35	24.30	20.08	20.08	20.08	20.08

advance:

Code:

[Table3D] 0.25	0.40	0.55	0.70	0.85	1.00	1.15	1.30	1.45	1.60	1.78	1.97	2.05	2.20	2.30	2.50	3.00	4.00	5.00
800	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
1200	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
1600	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
2000	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
2400	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
2800	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
3200	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
3600	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
4000	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
4400	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
4800	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
5200	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
5600	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
6000	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
6400	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
6800	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
7200	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92
7600	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.05	1.05	1.05	1.05	2.11	3.16	3.87	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92	4.92

ride5000 · 09-29-2009, 12:36 PM

man.. do stock maps have 50* of advance on them??

seems ridiculously excessive to me.

jagstyle · 09-29-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ride5000

man.. do stock maps have 50* of advance on them??

seems ridiculously excessive to me.

yes, they do

TMS@DefiantAutospeed · 09-29-2009, 02:01 PM

Pull 2-3* in the low load high RPM cells.

Ken the 2.5l motors run stupid amounts of timing in that area stock. It seems to help throttle response and low RPM torque.

cash1220 · 09-30-2009, 08:05 PM

this was my first time tuning a car and this was the first map i tested at the track... i had shift knock all night long....

utec maps...

Code:

22.0	22.0	16.0	9.0	4.0	-1.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0
22.0	22.0	16.0	9.0	4.0	-1.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0
22.0	22.0	16.0	11.0	5.0	0.0	-3.0	-5.0	-8.0	-8.0	-8.0
27.0	29.0	19.0	14.0	8.0	3.0	0.0	-3.0	-5.0	-5.0	-5.0
37.0	39.0	22.0	17.0	11.0	6.0	3.0	-1.0	-4.0	-4.0	-4.0
41.0	43.0	25.0	20.0	14.0	9.0	6.0	2.0	-3.0	-3.0	-3.0
45.0	43.0	28.0	23.0	17.0	13.0	10.0	4.0	-2.0	-2.0	-2.0
45.0	44.0	31.0	26.0	20.0	17.0	14.0	7.0	-1.0	-1.0	-1.0
45.0	44.0	34.0	29.0	22.0	20.0	17.0	8.0	0.0	0.0	0.0
45.0	46.0	34.0	29.0	22.0	20.0	18.0	9.0	4.0	4.0	4.0
45.0	46.0	34.0	29.0	22.0	20.0	18.0	10.0	9.0	9.0	9.0
45.0	46.0	34.0	29.0	22.0	20.0	18.0	11.0	9.0	9.0	9.0
45.0	46.0	34.0	29.0	22.0	20.0	18.0	12.0	10.0	9.0	9.0
45.0	46.0	35.0	30.0	23.0	21.0	19.0	13.0	11.0	9.0	9.0
45.0	46.0	36.0	31.0	24.0	22.0	20.0	14.0	12.0	10.0	10.0
45.0	46.0	37.0	32.0	25.0	23.0	21.0	15.0	13.0	10.0	10.0
42.0	46.0	38.0	33.0	26.0	24.0	22.0	16.0	14.0	10.0	10.0
39.0	44.0	40.0	34.0	27.0	25.0	23.0	17.0	15.0	11.0	11.0
39.0	44.0	42.0	35.0	28.0	26.0	24.0	18.0	15.0	12.0	12.0
39.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	19.0	15.0	13.0	13.0
39.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	14.0	14.0
39.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
30.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0
21.0	44.0	44.0	36.0	29.0	27.0	25.0	20.0	15.0	15.0	15.0

and this is what i use now, with no shift knock

Code:

-100.0	-100.0	11.0	7.0	3.0	-1.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0
-100.0	-100.0	13.5	9.1	5.1	-1.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0	-11.0
-100.0	-100.0	16.0	11.2	7.2	0.0	-3.0	-5.0	-8.0	-8.0	-8.0
-100.0	-100.0	18.5	13.3	9.3	2.8	0.0	-3.0	-5.0	-5.0	-5.0
-100.0	-100.0	21.0	15.4	11.4	5.6	2.3	0.0	-4.0	-4.0	-4.0
-100.0	-100.0	23.5	17.5	13.5	8.4	4.6	2.0	-3.0	-3.0	-3.0
-100.0	-100.0	26.0	19.6	15.6	11.2	6.9	4.0	-2.0	-2.0	-2.0
-100.0	-100.0	28.5	21.7	17.7	14.0	9.2	6.0	-1.0	-1.0	-1.0
-100.0	39.0	31.0	24.0	20.0	17.0	11.5	8.0	0.0	0.0	0.0
-100.0	41.0	31.0	24.0	20.0	17.0	14.0	10.0	8.0	6.0	5.0
-100.0	43.0	31.0	24.5	20.5	17.5	14.0	11.0	8.7	6.7	5.7
-100.0	43.0	31.0	25.0	21.0	18.0	14.5	11.5	9.1	7.1	6.1
-100.0	43.0	31.0	26.0	22.0	18.0	15.0	13.0	10.3	8.0	7.0
-100.0	43.0	32.0	27.0	23.0	19.0	16.0	12.5	10.7	9.5	8.5
39.0	43.0	33.0	29.0	23.0	20.0	17.0	14.0	12.2	10.7	9.7
45.0	43.0	34.0	29.0	24.0	21.0	17.0	15.0	13.5	12.0	11.0
43.0	43.0	36.0	29.0	25.0	22.0	18.5	16.0	14.0	13.0	12.0
41.0	45.0	38.0	30.5	26.0	22.0	20.0	17.0	15.5	14.0	13.0
39.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	23.0	20.0	18.0	16.5	15.0	14.0
37.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	18.0	16.8	15.6	14.6
35.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.0	16.1	15.1
33.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.2	16.7	15.7
31.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.4	17.2	16.2
29.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.5	17.2	16.2
27.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.6	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.6	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2
25.0	45.0	38.0	32.0	27.0	24.0	21.0	19.0	17.7	17.2	16.2

Remnex · 10-01-2009, 09:02 PM

While I do not currently have my tuned maps on me, I'll look for them, I tuned my 07 STI to 30 PSI on Pump + Meth with my 35R. I experienced the exact same situation that you had with massive shift knock that made the car shift like crap under hard acceleration. I fixed it a couple of ways.

First, I made sure that my MAF scaling was perfect, or as close as you can get a 83mm intake, and ensured that my injectors were scaled correctly, tip in was correct and the latency was right on the money. Next, I took a look at the timing maps.

From 4k+ rpms the stock cars run retard timing that make the thing drive like poo poo when shift hard. I decreased the timing in the 4.5k+ on low loads, first three columns, to about 44-45 degrees and then interpolated the entire timing curve across until I hit the beginning of my boosted loads of half and full throttle.

Next, I vertically hand tuned the timing curve from 4.5K and down on low load to ensure that the timing blended into the cruise/low throttle timing. Did a couple crisp pulls and checked third, fourth and half of fifth for knock.

Lastly, I took a tad bit of the fuel out and blended everything together. I was ultimately left with a tune that was street capable and I could bang through the gears like nobody's business. No knock from first -> top of fifth.

I have a video here somewhere...

jagstyle · 10-01-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash1220

this was my first time tuning a car and this was the first map i tested at the track... i had shift knock all night long....

utec maps...

and this is what i use now, with no shift knock

Thank you! I really appreciate the examples

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remnex

From 4k+ rpms the stock cars run retard timing that make the thing drive like poo poo when shift hard. I decreased the timing in the 4.5k+ on low loads, first three columns, to about 44-45 degrees and then interpolated the entire timing curve across until I hit the beginning of my boosted loads of half and full throttle.

Next, I vertically hand tuned the timing curve from 4.5K and down on low load to ensure that the timing blended into the cruise/low throttle timing. Did a couple crisp pulls and checked third, fourth and half of fifth for knock.

Thanks! These kind of details are exactly what I'm looking for

Here is the result of all my shift knock from a recent track day:

Time to work on getting this tuned out...

Remnex · 10-02-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagstyle

Thank you! I really appreciate the examples

Thanks! These kind of details are exactly what I'm looking for

Here is the result of all my shift knock from a recent track day:

Time to work on getting this tuned out...

I'll post screen caps of my tune a little bit later. Once I get home

Let me know how it works out.

jagstyle · 10-04-2009, 02:18 AM

I made the following changes to my timing map:

Code:

        0.25	0.40	0.55	0.70	0.85	1.00	1.15	1.30	1.45	1.60	1.78	1.97	2.05	2.20	2.30	2.50	3.00	4.00	5.00
800	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
1200	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
1600	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
2000	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
2400	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
2800	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
3200	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
3600	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
4000	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
4400	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
4800	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
5200	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
5600	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
6000	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
6400	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
6800	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
7200	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
7600	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00

so it looks like this now:

Code:

        0.25	0.40	0.55	0.70	0.85	1.00	1.15	1.30	1.45	1.60	1.78	1.97	2.05	2.20	2.30	2.50	3.00	4.00	5.00
800	30.27	32.03	29.92	25.35	20.43	13.40	5.31	0.74	-2.07	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12
1200	38.36	41.17	38.71	35.20	29.92	22.19	14.45	9.18	6.37	4.26	2.85	1.45	0.04	-0.66	-1.37	-0.66	-0.66	-0.66	-0.66
1600	43.63	46.09	45.04	42.23	37.30	30.27	22.89	16.21	11.64	8.12	6.02	4.61	3.20	2.15	1.45	2.15	2.15	2.15	2.15
2000	47.15	49.26	48.91	46.45	42.23	36.25	28.52	21.13	15.86	11.99	9.18	7.42	5.66	4.26	3.55	3.55	3.55	3.55	3.55
2400	48.91	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	39.06	31.33	24.30	19.38	15.16	11.99	9.88	7.77	6.37	5.31	4.61	4.61	4.61	4.61
2800	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.12	33.79	26.76	21.84	17.97	14.45	11.99	10.23	8.83	7.42	6.02	6.02	6.02	6.02
3200	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.82	35.20	28.87	24.30	20.43	16.91	14.10	12.34	10.94	9.53	7.07	7.07	7.07	7.07
3600	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.82	35.90	30.62	25.70	22.19	19.02	16.21	14.10	12.70	11.29	7.77	7.77	7.77	7.77
4000	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	40.82	36.60	31.68	27.11	23.59	20.43	17.62	15.51	13.40	12.34	8.12	8.12	8.12	8.12
4400	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	40.82	36.95	32.38	27.81	24.30	21.13	18.32	16.21	14.45	13.05	8.48	8.48	8.48	8.48
4800	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	40.12	36.60	32.03	27.81	23.95	20.78	18.32	16.21	14.10	12.70	8.83	8.83	8.83	8.83
5200	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	40.47	36.95	32.73	28.87	25.00	22.19	19.38	17.27	15.51	13.75	9.18	9.18	9.18	9.18
5600	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	40.82	37.66	33.44	29.92	26.76	23.59	21.13	18.67	16.91	15.51	10.94	10.94	10.94	10.94
6000	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	40.82	37.66	34.49	30.98	28.16	25.00	22.54	20.43	18.67	17.27	13.40	13.40	13.40	13.40
6400	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	41.17	38.01	34.84	31.68	29.22	26.41	23.95	22.19	20.43	19.38	16.21	16.21	16.21	16.21
6800	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	41.52	38.36	35.55	32.73	29.92	27.46	25.35	23.59	21.84	20.78	18.32	18.32	18.32	18.32
7200	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	41.52	38.36	35.90	33.44	30.98	28.52	26.41	24.65	23.24	22.19	19.38	19.38	19.38	19.38
7600	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	41.52	38.36	35.90	33.79	31.68	29.22	27.46	25.70	24.30	23.24	20.08	20.08	20.08	20.08

Still really bad shift knock:

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing
0	0.48	2552	0	14.38	49.5
125	0.47	2541	0	14.44	49.5
234	0.47	2555	0	13.72	49.5
344	0.49	2581	0	14.29	49.5
469	0.53	2578	0	14.29	49.5
609	0.56	2601	0	13.79	49.5
719	0.57	2622	0	15.32	49.5
844	0.6	2636	0	15.98	49
984	0.61	2664	0	15.98	49
1125	0.61	2685	0	15.05	49
1234	0.6	2707	0	14.7	49
1344	0.6	2732	0	13.89	49
1484	0.6	2740	0	13.89	49
1609	0.6	2776	0	14.41	49
1734	0.6	2798	0	15.51	49
1859	0.6	2792	0	15.19	49
2000	0.6	2849	0	14.79	49
2109	0.63	2857	0	14.79	48.5
2234	0.69	2877	0	14.73	48
2375	1.02	2947	0	14.95	41.5
2484	1.44	3014	0	14.95	26
2594	1.66	3060	0	16.13	20
2734	1.76	3229	0	16.76	19
2859	1.82	3313	0	14.46	18.5
2969	1.89	3418	0	14.46	18.5
3094	2.06	3557	0	13.13	17
3219	2.3	3684	0	12.33	16.5
3359	2.62	3874	0	11.72	13.5
3469	3.07	4039	0	11.72	13.5
3594	3.72	4222	0	11.19	13.5
3719	4.42	4465	0	10.98	14
3844	4.99	4784	0	10.85	14
3953	4.8	5117	0	10.85	14.5
4062	4.68	5389	0	11.45	15.5
4187	4.57	5676	0	11.79	17
4312	4.43	5942	0	11.64	18.5
4422	4.3	6192	0	11.64	20
4547	4.19	6434	0	11.6	22
4656	3.2	6881	0	12.05	-20
4765	1.81	6516	0	12.05	28
4890	3.59	5396	0	11.5	15.5
5015	4.8	4878	0	11.41	14
5140	4.87	4841	0	11.16	14
5265	4.73	4986	-1.41	11.16	13
5390	4.69	5135	-1.41	11.54	13
5500	4.61	5334	-1.41	11.79	13.5
5609	4.57	5484	-1.41	11.83	14.5
5750	4.53	5584	-1.41	11.83	15
5859	4.49	5698	-1.41	12.02	15.5
5969	4.41	5862	-1.41	11.89	16.5
6094	4.35	6008	-1.41	11.89	17.5
6219	4.29	6126	-1.05	11.89	18.5
6344	4.25	6193	-1.05	12.11	19
6469	4.17	6365	-1.05	12.14	20
6594	4.07	6454	-1.05	12	20.5
6703	4.05	6566	-1.05	12	21.5
6812	3.52	7169	-1.05	12.19	-20
7062	1.53	6746	-1.05	12	5
7125	4.77	5196	-1.05	20.33	12
7250	4.68	5220	-2.46	12.73	12
7390	4.63	5278	-2.46	12.73	12.5
7500	4.61	5298	-2.46	11.79	12.5
7625	4.59	5387	-2.46	11.75	13
7750	4.55	5444	-2.46	11.75	13
7875	4.57	5509	-2.46	11.76	13.5
7969	4.54	5550	-2.46	11.77	13.5
8109	4.51	5652	-2.46	12.04	14
8250	4.5	5714	-2.11	12.04	15
8375	4.47	5809	-2.11	11.95	15.5
8484	4.42	5837	-2.11	11.94	15.5
8609	4.38	5906	-2.11	11.86	16
8734	4.33	5989	-2.11	11.86	16.5
8859	4.3	6052	-2.11	11.98	17
8984	4.28	6132	-2.11	12.01	17.5
9109	4.21	6218	-2.11	12.26	18
9234	4.23	6266	-1.76	12.26	18.5
9344	4.23	6308	-1.76	12.04	19
9453	4.22	6411	-1.76	12.08	20
9594	4.21	6376	-1.76	12	19.5
9703	4.15	6442	-1.76	12	20
9828	4.07	6563	-1.76	11.85	20.5
9937	1.53	6311	0	11.98	-14.5
10047	0.97	5984	0	11.98	41.5
10172	1.99	5407	-1.41	12.38	22
10281	3.47	5530	-4.22	11.13	12
10406	4.37	5615	-4.22	11.13	12
10531	4.52	5635	-4.22	11.66	12.5
10672	4.48	5680	-4.22	11	12.5
10812	4.46	5731	-4.22	11.64	13
10937	4.4	5801	-4.22	11.73	13.5
11062	4.38	5830	-4.22	11.73	13.5
11187	4.38	5838	-4.22	11.86	14
11312	4.37	5912	-3.87	11.77	14
11422	4.32	5932	-3.87	11.75	14.5
11547	3.33	5874	-3.87	11.75	27
11656	1.66	6067	0	11.92	24.5
11781	1.02	5750	0	12.32	24.5
11906	0.7	5830	0	12.32	24.5
12015	0.37	5807	0	10.45	24
12125	0.29	5708	0	10.03	24
12250	0.3	5630	0	8.88	24
12375	0.27	5620	0	8.88	24
12469	0.27	5531	0	10.39	24
12609	0.24	5469	0	20.33	24
12734	0.22	5327	0	20.33	24
12844	0.19	5288	0	20.33	24
12969	0.21	5303	0	20.33	24
13094	0.18	5205	0	20.33	24
13219	0.2	5130	0	20.33	24
13344	0.17	5072	0	20.33	24

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing
0	0.79	3620	0	14.02	46
125	1.37	3675	0	13.66	31
235	1.59	3762	0	13.66	24.5
360	1.79	3870	0	16.08	21.5
485	2.1	3992	0	14.99	19
625	2.5	4172	0	12.38	15
735	3.02	4339	0	12.38	14
860	3.77	4537	0	11.16	14
985	4.53	4836	0	10.66	14.5
1110	4.93	5049	0	10.8	14.5
1235	4.67	5441	0	10.8	15.5
1344	4.52	5732	0	11.42	17
1485	4.41	5950	0	11.72	18.5
1610	4.28	6246	0	11.61	20.5
1735	4.11	6503	0	11.61	22
1844	3.49	7175	0	11.67	-20
1969	1.53	6842	0	11.85	0
2078	4.01	5051	0	20.33	14.5
2203	4.83	5055	0	20.33	10
2313	4.77	4978	-5.62	15.73	8.5
2438	4.71	5048	-5.62	11.72	9
2547	4.67	5167	-5.62	11.72	9
2672	4.61	5370	-5.62	11.88	9.5
2781	4.52	5462	-5.62	11.83	10
2922	4.52	5558	-5.62	11.83	10.5
3031	4.47	5716	-5.62	11.76	11.5
3156	4.45	5802	-5.62	11.97	12
3266	4.36	5922	-5.62	12.14	12.5
3391	4.33	6024	-5.27	12.14	13.5
3516	4.27	6132	-5.27	12.19	14.5
3641	4.19	6260	-5.27	12	15.5
3766	4.14	6364	-5.27	12.08	16
3891	4.07	6530	-5.27	12.08	17
4000	3.84	7118	-5.27	12.05	0
4141	1.42	6885	-5.27	11.91	0
4250	4.15	4706	-4.22	20.33	10
4391	4.83	4938	-8.09	20.33	4.5
4500	4.71	5052	-9.49	17.88	3.5
4610	4.66	5139	-10.9	11.97	3.5
4735	4.63	5224	-10.9	11.89	3.5
4860	4.58	5426	-10.9	11.89	4.5
4969	4.69	5206	-10.9	11.86	3.5
5078	4.64	5309	-10.9	11.97	4
5203	4.59	5425	-10.9	11.97	4.5
5328	4.55	5504	-10.9	11.95	5
5485	4.55	5573	-10.9	12	5
5594	4.51	5658	-10.55	11.77	6
5719	4.48	5717	-10.55	11.77	6.5
5860	4.44	5756	-10.55	11.86	6.5
5969	4.4	5813	-10.55	11.92	7
6078	4.44	5881	-10.55	12.11	7.5
6188	4.43	5909	-10.55	12.11	7.5
6297	4.41	5969	-10.55	12	8
6406	4.37	6024	-10.55	11.86	8.5
6531	4.39	6042	-10.55	11.86	9
6656	4.33	6081	-10.2	11.7	9
6766	4.3	6176	-11.6	11.76	8.5
6875	4.28	6176	-11.6	11.76	8.5
6985	4.23	6271	-11.6	11.76	9
7094	4.08	6613	-11.6	11.75	11
7219	1.22	6552	-6.33	11.72	-18.5
7360	2.59	5460	-11.6	11.72	5.5
7485	4.31	5410	-11.6	11.88	4
7594	4.6	5424	-11.95	12.83	3.5
7719	4.53	5408	-11.95	11.17	3.5
7844	4.5	5483	-11.95	11.17	4
7953	4.52	5505	-11.95	11.41	4
8078	4.5	5546	-11.95	11.64	4
8203	4.49	5584	-11.95	11.64	4.5
8313	4.48	5628	-11.95	11.67	4.5
8422	2.24	5259	-7.03	11.63	22.5
8547	1.15	5540	-2.81	11.64	24.5
8656	0.89	5706	0	11.64	24.5
8781	0.52	5412	0	10.3	24.5
8891	0.34	5431	0	9.83	24
9000	0.33	5409	0	9.83	24
9141	0.34	5311	0	9.83	24
9250	0.31	5237	0	10.3	24
9360	0.27	5190	0	14.88	24
9485	0.26	5096	0	14.88	24
9625	0.26	4975	0	20.33	24
9735	0.24	4950	0	20.33	24
9844	0.24	4858	0	20.33	24
9953	0.22	4822	0	20.33	24
10063	0.23	4783	0	20.33	24
10203	0.23	4739	0	20.33	24
10313	0.23	4684	0	20.33	24
10438	0.22	4639	0	20.33	24
10563	0.22	4549	0	20.33	24
10688	0.22	4492	0	20.33	24
10813	0.23	4451	0	20.33	24
10938	0.22	4420	0	20.33	24
11078	0.22	4375	0	20.33	24
11203	0.22	4339	0	20.33	24
11313	0.2	4254	0	20.33	24
11438	0.22	4248	0	20.33	24
11563	0.21	4200	0	20.33	24
11703	0.22	4134	0	20.33	24
11813	0.22	4148	0	20.33	24
11938	0.21	4102	0	20.33	24
12078	0.22	4091	0	20.33	24
12203	0.22	4084	0	20.33	24
12313	0.23	4060	0	20.33	24
12438	0.22	4052	0	20.33	24
12563	0.22	4021	0	20.33	24
12703	0.21	4027	0	20.33	24
12844	0.2	4002	0	20.33	24
12953	0.21	3995	0	20.33	24
13078	0.21	3962	0	20.33	24
13203	0.21	3962	0	20.33	24
13313	0.2	3948	0	20.33	24
13438	0.21	3914	0	20.33	24
13563	0.17	3900	0	20.33	24

What am I doing wrong?

rac · 10-04-2009, 03:45 AM

I would say you will need to take out more than 1-4deg of timing to stop it. For people with aftermaket ecu's that have a timing advance rate setting life is easy.

Remnex · 10-04-2009, 03:11 PM

Are you doing open source or ATR?

Let me know and I would love to look at your rom and send some revisions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagstyle

I made the following changes to my timing map:

Code:

        0.25	0.40	0.55	0.70	0.85	1.00	1.15	1.30	1.45	1.60	1.78	1.97	2.05	2.20	2.30	2.50	3.00	4.00	5.00
800	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
1200	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
1600	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
2000	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
2400	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
2800	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
3200	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
3600	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
4000	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
4400	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
4800	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
5200	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
5600	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
6000	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
6400	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
6800	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
7200	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
7600	-4.22	-4.22	-4.22	-2.81	-1.76	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	-1.05	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00

so it looks like this now:

Code:

        0.25	0.40	0.55	0.70	0.85	1.00	1.15	1.30	1.45	1.60	1.78	1.97	2.05	2.20	2.30	2.50	3.00	4.00	5.00
800	30.27	32.03	29.92	25.35	20.43	13.40	5.31	0.74	-2.07	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12	-3.12
1200	38.36	41.17	38.71	35.20	29.92	22.19	14.45	9.18	6.37	4.26	2.85	1.45	0.04	-0.66	-1.37	-0.66	-0.66	-0.66	-0.66
1600	43.63	46.09	45.04	42.23	37.30	30.27	22.89	16.21	11.64	8.12	6.02	4.61	3.20	2.15	1.45	2.15	2.15	2.15	2.15
2000	47.15	49.26	48.91	46.45	42.23	36.25	28.52	21.13	15.86	11.99	9.18	7.42	5.66	4.26	3.55	3.55	3.55	3.55	3.55
2400	48.91	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	39.06	31.33	24.30	19.38	15.16	11.99	9.88	7.77	6.37	5.31	4.61	4.61	4.61	4.61
2800	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.12	33.79	26.76	21.84	17.97	14.45	11.99	10.23	8.83	7.42	6.02	6.02	6.02	6.02
3200	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.82	35.20	28.87	24.30	20.43	16.91	14.10	12.34	10.94	9.53	7.07	7.07	7.07	7.07
3600	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	44.34	40.82	35.90	30.62	25.70	22.19	19.02	16.21	14.10	12.70	11.29	7.77	7.77	7.77	7.77
4000	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	40.82	36.60	31.68	27.11	23.59	20.43	17.62	15.51	13.40	12.34	8.12	8.12	8.12	8.12
4400	49.26	49.26	49.26	47.15	43.98	40.82	36.95	32.38	27.81	24.30	21.13	18.32	16.21	14.45	13.05	8.48	8.48	8.48	8.48
4800	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	40.12	36.60	32.03	27.81	23.95	20.78	18.32	16.21	14.10	12.70	8.83	8.83	8.83	8.83
5200	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	40.47	36.95	32.73	28.87	25.00	22.19	19.38	17.27	15.51	13.75	9.18	9.18	9.18	9.18
5600	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	40.82	37.66	33.44	29.92	26.76	23.59	21.13	18.67	16.91	15.51	10.94	10.94	10.94	10.94
6000	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	40.82	37.66	34.49	30.98	28.16	25.00	22.54	20.43	18.67	17.27	13.40	13.40	13.40	13.40
6400	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	41.17	38.01	34.84	31.68	29.22	26.41	23.95	22.19	20.43	19.38	16.21	16.21	16.21	16.21
6800	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	41.52	38.36	35.55	32.73	29.92	27.46	25.35	23.59	21.84	20.78	18.32	18.32	18.32	18.32
7200	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	41.52	38.36	35.90	33.44	30.98	28.52	26.41	24.65	23.24	22.19	19.38	19.38	19.38	19.38
7600	45.04	45.04	45.04	44.34	42.93	41.52	38.36	35.90	33.79	31.68	29.22	27.46	25.70	24.30	23.24	20.08	20.08	20.08	20.08

Still really bad shift knock:

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing
0	0.48	2552	0	14.38	49.5
125	0.47	2541	0	14.44	49.5
234	0.47	2555	0	13.72	49.5
344	0.49	2581	0	14.29	49.5
469	0.53	2578	0	14.29	49.5
609	0.56	2601	0	13.79	49.5
719	0.57	2622	0	15.32	49.5
844	0.6	2636	0	15.98	49
984	0.61	2664	0	15.98	49
1125	0.61	2685	0	15.05	49
1234	0.6	2707	0	14.7	49
1344	0.6	2732	0	13.89	49
1484	0.6	2740	0	13.89	49
1609	0.6	2776	0	14.41	49
1734	0.6	2798	0	15.51	49
1859	0.6	2792	0	15.19	49
2000	0.6	2849	0	14.79	49
2109	0.63	2857	0	14.79	48.5
2234	0.69	2877	0	14.73	48
2375	1.02	2947	0	14.95	41.5
2484	1.44	3014	0	14.95	26
2594	1.66	3060	0	16.13	20
2734	1.76	3229	0	16.76	19
2859	1.82	3313	0	14.46	18.5
2969	1.89	3418	0	14.46	18.5
3094	2.06	3557	0	13.13	17
3219	2.3	3684	0	12.33	16.5
3359	2.62	3874	0	11.72	13.5
3469	3.07	4039	0	11.72	13.5
3594	3.72	4222	0	11.19	13.5
3719	4.42	4465	0	10.98	14
3844	4.99	4784	0	10.85	14
3953	4.8	5117	0	10.85	14.5
4062	4.68	5389	0	11.45	15.5
4187	4.57	5676	0	11.79	17
4312	4.43	5942	0	11.64	18.5
4422	4.3	6192	0	11.64	20
4547	4.19	6434	0	11.6	22
4656	3.2	6881	0	12.05	-20
4765	1.81	6516	0	12.05	28
4890	3.59	5396	0	11.5	15.5
5015	4.8	4878	0	11.41	14
5140	4.87	4841	0	11.16	14
5265	4.73	4986	-1.41	11.16	13
5390	4.69	5135	-1.41	11.54	13
5500	4.61	5334	-1.41	11.79	13.5
5609	4.57	5484	-1.41	11.83	14.5
5750	4.53	5584	-1.41	11.83	15
5859	4.49	5698	-1.41	12.02	15.5
5969	4.41	5862	-1.41	11.89	16.5
6094	4.35	6008	-1.41	11.89	17.5
6219	4.29	6126	-1.05	11.89	18.5
6344	4.25	6193	-1.05	12.11	19
6469	4.17	6365	-1.05	12.14	20
6594	4.07	6454	-1.05	12	20.5
6703	4.05	6566	-1.05	12	21.5
6812	3.52	7169	-1.05	12.19	-20
7062	1.53	6746	-1.05	12	5
7125	4.77	5196	-1.05	20.33	12
7250	4.68	5220	-2.46	12.73	12
7390	4.63	5278	-2.46	12.73	12.5
7500	4.61	5298	-2.46	11.79	12.5
7625	4.59	5387	-2.46	11.75	13
7750	4.55	5444	-2.46	11.75	13
7875	4.57	5509	-2.46	11.76	13.5
7969	4.54	5550	-2.46	11.77	13.5
8109	4.51	5652	-2.46	12.04	14
8250	4.5	5714	-2.11	12.04	15
8375	4.47	5809	-2.11	11.95	15.5
8484	4.42	5837	-2.11	11.94	15.5
8609	4.38	5906	-2.11	11.86	16
8734	4.33	5989	-2.11	11.86	16.5
8859	4.3	6052	-2.11	11.98	17
8984	4.28	6132	-2.11	12.01	17.5
9109	4.21	6218	-2.11	12.26	18
9234	4.23	6266	-1.76	12.26	18.5
9344	4.23	6308	-1.76	12.04	19
9453	4.22	6411	-1.76	12.08	20
9594	4.21	6376	-1.76	12	19.5
9703	4.15	6442	-1.76	12	20
9828	4.07	6563	-1.76	11.85	20.5
9937	1.53	6311	0	11.98	-14.5
10047	0.97	5984	0	11.98	41.5
10172	1.99	5407	-1.41	12.38	22
10281	3.47	5530	-4.22	11.13	12
10406	4.37	5615	-4.22	11.13	12
10531	4.52	5635	-4.22	11.66	12.5
10672	4.48	5680	-4.22	11	12.5
10812	4.46	5731	-4.22	11.64	13
10937	4.4	5801	-4.22	11.73	13.5
11062	4.38	5830	-4.22	11.73	13.5
11187	4.38	5838	-4.22	11.86	14
11312	4.37	5912	-3.87	11.77	14
11422	4.32	5932	-3.87	11.75	14.5
11547	3.33	5874	-3.87	11.75	27
11656	1.66	6067	0	11.92	24.5
11781	1.02	5750	0	12.32	24.5
11906	0.7	5830	0	12.32	24.5
12015	0.37	5807	0	10.45	24
12125	0.29	5708	0	10.03	24
12250	0.3	5630	0	8.88	24
12375	0.27	5620	0	8.88	24
12469	0.27	5531	0	10.39	24
12609	0.24	5469	0	20.33	24
12734	0.22	5327	0	20.33	24
12844	0.19	5288	0	20.33	24
12969	0.21	5303	0	20.33	24
13094	0.18	5205	0	20.33	24
13219	0.2	5130	0	20.33	24
13344	0.17	5072	0	20.33	24

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing
0	0.79	3620	0	14.02	46
125	1.37	3675	0	13.66	31
235	1.59	3762	0	13.66	24.5
360	1.79	3870	0	16.08	21.5
485	2.1	3992	0	14.99	19
625	2.5	4172	0	12.38	15
735	3.02	4339	0	12.38	14
860	3.77	4537	0	11.16	14
985	4.53	4836	0	10.66	14.5
1110	4.93	5049	0	10.8	14.5
1235	4.67	5441	0	10.8	15.5
1344	4.52	5732	0	11.42	17
1485	4.41	5950	0	11.72	18.5
1610	4.28	6246	0	11.61	20.5
1735	4.11	6503	0	11.61	22
1844	3.49	7175	0	11.67	-20
1969	1.53	6842	0	11.85	0
2078	4.01	5051	0	20.33	14.5
2203	4.83	5055	0	20.33	10
2313	4.77	4978	-5.62	15.73	8.5
2438	4.71	5048	-5.62	11.72	9
2547	4.67	5167	-5.62	11.72	9
2672	4.61	5370	-5.62	11.88	9.5
2781	4.52	5462	-5.62	11.83	10
2922	4.52	5558	-5.62	11.83	10.5
3031	4.47	5716	-5.62	11.76	11.5
3156	4.45	5802	-5.62	11.97	12
3266	4.36	5922	-5.62	12.14	12.5
3391	4.33	6024	-5.27	12.14	13.5
3516	4.27	6132	-5.27	12.19	14.5
3641	4.19	6260	-5.27	12	15.5
3766	4.14	6364	-5.27	12.08	16
3891	4.07	6530	-5.27	12.08	17
4000	3.84	7118	-5.27	12.05	0
4141	1.42	6885	-5.27	11.91	0
4250	4.15	4706	-4.22	20.33	10
4391	4.83	4938	-8.09	20.33	4.5
4500	4.71	5052	-9.49	17.88	3.5
4610	4.66	5139	-10.9	11.97	3.5
4735	4.63	5224	-10.9	11.89	3.5
4860	4.58	5426	-10.9	11.89	4.5
4969	4.69	5206	-10.9	11.86	3.5
5078	4.64	5309	-10.9	11.97	4
5203	4.59	5425	-10.9	11.97	4.5
5328	4.55	5504	-10.9	11.95	5
5485	4.55	5573	-10.9	12	5
5594	4.51	5658	-10.55	11.77	6
5719	4.48	5717	-10.55	11.77	6.5
5860	4.44	5756	-10.55	11.86	6.5
5969	4.4	5813	-10.55	11.92	7
6078	4.44	5881	-10.55	12.11	7.5
6188	4.43	5909	-10.55	12.11	7.5
6297	4.41	5969	-10.55	12	8
6406	4.37	6024	-10.55	11.86	8.5
6531	4.39	6042	-10.55	11.86	9
6656	4.33	6081	-10.2	11.7	9
6766	4.3	6176	-11.6	11.76	8.5
6875	4.28	6176	-11.6	11.76	8.5
6985	4.23	6271	-11.6	11.76	9
7094	4.08	6613	-11.6	11.75	11
7219	1.22	6552	-6.33	11.72	-18.5
7360	2.59	5460	-11.6	11.72	5.5
7485	4.31	5410	-11.6	11.88	4
7594	4.6	5424	-11.95	12.83	3.5
7719	4.53	5408	-11.95	11.17	3.5
7844	4.5	5483	-11.95	11.17	4
7953	4.52	5505	-11.95	11.41	4
8078	4.5	5546	-11.95	11.64	4
8203	4.49	5584	-11.95	11.64	4.5
8313	4.48	5628	-11.95	11.67	4.5
8422	2.24	5259	-7.03	11.63	22.5
8547	1.15	5540	-2.81	11.64	24.5
8656	0.89	5706	0	11.64	24.5
8781	0.52	5412	0	10.3	24.5
8891	0.34	5431	0	9.83	24
9000	0.33	5409	0	9.83	24
9141	0.34	5311	0	9.83	24
9250	0.31	5237	0	10.3	24
9360	0.27	5190	0	14.88	24
9485	0.26	5096	0	14.88	24
9625	0.26	4975	0	20.33	24
9735	0.24	4950	0	20.33	24
9844	0.24	4858	0	20.33	24
9953	0.22	4822	0	20.33	24
10063	0.23	4783	0	20.33	24
10203	0.23	4739	0	20.33	24
10313	0.23	4684	0	20.33	24
10438	0.22	4639	0	20.33	24
10563	0.22	4549	0	20.33	24
10688	0.22	4492	0	20.33	24
10813	0.23	4451	0	20.33	24
10938	0.22	4420	0	20.33	24
11078	0.22	4375	0	20.33	24
11203	0.22	4339	0	20.33	24
11313	0.2	4254	0	20.33	24
11438	0.22	4248	0	20.33	24
11563	0.21	4200	0	20.33	24
11703	0.22	4134	0	20.33	24
11813	0.22	4148	0	20.33	24
11938	0.21	4102	0	20.33	24
12078	0.22	4091	0	20.33	24
12203	0.22	4084	0	20.33	24
12313	0.23	4060	0	20.33	24
12438	0.22	4052	0	20.33	24
12563	0.22	4021	0	20.33	24
12703	0.21	4027	0	20.33	24
12844	0.2	4002	0	20.33	24
12953	0.21	3995	0	20.33	24
13078	0.21	3962	0	20.33	24
13203	0.21	3962	0	20.33	24
13313	0.2	3948	0	20.33	24
13438	0.21	3914	0	20.33	24
13563	0.17	3900	0	20.33	24

What am I doing wrong?

jagstyle · 10-04-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remnex

Are you doing open source or ATR?

Let me know and I would love to look at your rom and send some revisions.

open source, thanks, pm sent

NSFW · 10-05-2009, 05:00 AM

Bump for updates... What's the highest timing you guys run in the sub-1-g/s & over-4k-RPM area? I've been lower mine slowly from stock, now at 42 but I found another knock there in the logs I took today at 5200 rpm and 0.6 load.

BTW, the stuff above about 'skipping' over the timing tables - I think that's just an artifact of the slow speed of our loggers. Even Clark's specialized logger is still using SSM queries at 4800 baud, unless he's reflashing higher-speed logging code onto the ECU. That's glacially slow compared how quickly the ECU is actually doing the math. Even within a single log row, we'll always be seeing RPM and load values sampled at two different times.

ride5000 · 10-05-2009, 09:08 AM

i will NEVER run 42 degrees timing anywhere in any map.

it's a ridiculous amount of advance. there is no need for it. it's not like you need torque at those load sides.

Remnex · 10-06-2009, 02:47 AM

Sending you back three incremental revisions. Check your e-mail man!

jagstyle · 10-06-2009, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remnex

Sending you back three incremental revisions. Check your e-mail man!

awesome! thank you. I'll test the revisions and post logs tomorrow evening. I've been logging minimal paramters for higher resolution but is there anything else that would be helpful for me to capture in the logs?

Remnex · 10-06-2009, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagstyle

awesome! thank you. I'll test the revisions and post logs tomorrow evening. I've been logging minimal paramters for higher resolution but is there anything else that would be helpful for me to capture in the logs?

The higher gear logs are perfect. When I was tuning my shift knock out, every car is different, I would do 4-3-2-1 count on shift. Shift, wait four seconds and floor it. This just helped me get closer and closer to the cause.

You can back and forth on this one, but once you get it. Oooh, boy! It is fun

NSFW · 10-06-2009, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ride5000

i will NEVER run 42 degrees timing anywhere in any map.

it's a ridiculous amount of advance. there is no need for it. it's not like you need torque at those load sides.

OK, great... but, like I asked... what is the highest torque you run in that area?

I've been lowering it a degree at a time but if I had some idea where this was likely to end up, that might save me some time and trouble.

Thanks!

ride5000 · 10-06-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSFW

OK, great... but, like I asked... what is the highest torque you run in that area?

I've been lowering it a degree at a time but if I had some idea where this was likely to end up, that might save me some time and trouble.

Thanks!

if you mean highest advance, my maps max out in the mid 30s in the bottom left of the surface.

NSFW · 10-07-2009, 02:06 AM

Yeah... advance, not torque. It was past my bedtime. Kudos to you for seeing past that.

That's the number I was looking for. I'll take a quick drop to 40 and go back to making smaller changes as needed.

jagstyle · 10-07-2009, 03:25 AM

tried some new revisions from remnex tonight but still knocking:

v108 (my map)

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing (degrees)
438	0.56	2506	0	14.88	49.5
578	0.57	2520	0	15.58	49.5
703	0.57	2571	0	14.36	49.5
813	0.58	2568	0	14.67	49.5
922	0.6	2612	0	14.67	49
1047	0.63	2620	0	14.6	48.5
1172	0.63	2628	0	14.85	48.5
1282	0.62	2663	0	14.85	49
1407	0.62	2675	0	16.08	49
1516	0.62	2722	0	14.46	49
1625	0.68	2736	0	14.42	48
1735	0.79	2790	0	14.42	46
1844	1.18	2842	0	15.41	33.5
1969	1.46	2889	0	15.98	23.5
2078	1.63	2996	0	15.98	20
2188	1.75	3073	0	15.92	18
2313	1.83	3202	0	14.26	18
2438	1.88	3277	0	14.26	18
2563	2.01	3442	0	12.83	17
2672	2.15	3540	0	12.5	16.5
2797	2.37	3694	0	11.97	15.5
2907	2.69	3860	0	11.97	13.5
3016	3.1	4025	0	11.38	13.5
3141	3.72	4234	0	11.25	13.5
3266	4.34	4474	0	11.25	14
3375	4.91	4748	0	10.73	14
3485	4.96	5004	0	10.85	14.5
3594	4.78	5259	0	10.85	15
3703	4.58	5680	0	11.38	17
3813	4.56	5850	0	11.8	18
3938	4.51	6067	0	11.8	19
4047	4.35	6328	0	11.86	21
4157	4.19	6682	0	11.76	23
4266	2.61	6724	0	11.55	-20
4375	1.67	7119	0	11.55	31
4500	3.26	4355	0	11.75	14
4625	4.72	4801	0	20.33	13
4735	4.94	4916	-4.22	20.33	10
4844	4.81	5001	-4.22	12.29	10
4953	4.75	5082	-4.22	11.67	10.5
5063	4.69	5224	-4.22	11.67	10.5
5188	4.67	5373	-4.22	11.73	11
5313	4.63	5532	-4.22	11.8	12
5422	4.58	5639	-4.22	12.01	12
5532	4.52	5744	-4.22	12.01	13
5641	4.5	5864	-4.22	11.95	13.5
5750	4.41	5969	-3.87	11.83	15
5860	4.37	6076	-3.87	11.83	15.5
5985	4.33	6194	-3.87	11.89	16
6094	4.25	6290	-3.87	11.88	17
6235	4.2	6388	-3.87	11.88	17.5
6360	4.11	6524	-3.87	11.86	18.5
6469	2.78	6368	-0.7	11.85	-11
6578	1.55	6052	0	10.86	31
6703	3.11	5434	-1.41	10.86	15.5
6828	4.5	5133	-2.11	11.44	11
6953	4.8	5153	-3.52	12.16	11
7063	4.73	5169	-3.52	12.16	11
7172	4.72	5225	-3.52	11.55	11
7282	4.67	5314	-3.52	11.61	11.5
7391	4.65	5368	-3.52	11.61	11.5
7500	4.63	5432	-3.52	11.64	12
7625	4.57	5507	-3.52	11.77	12.5
7735	4.56	5553	-3.52	11.7	12.5
7844	4.59	5634	-3.16	11.7	13.5
7953	4.54	5663	-3.16	11.86	13.5
8063	4.53	5748	-3.16	11.85	14
8172	4.48	5830	-3.16	11.85	14.5
8313	4.46	5856	-3.16	11.66	14.5
8438	4.44	5969	-3.16	12.13	15.5
8547	4.41	6002	-3.16	12.11	15.5
8657	4.37	6045	-3.16	12.11	16
8766	4.34	6181	-3.16	11.97	17
8907	4.31	6163	-2.81	11.97	17
9032	4.3	6264	-2.81	11.67	18
9157	4.25	6319	-2.81	11.8	18
9282	4.19	6401	-2.81	11.85	19
9391	4.09	6644	-2.81	11.8	20
9500	4.2	6532	-2.81	11.8	19
9610	4.2	6514	-2.81	11.75	19
9719	3.87	6570	-2.81	12.1	19.5
9828	1.78	6228	0	12.1	-14.5
9953	0.97	5942	0	11.19	-15.5
10063	0.77	5549	0	11.3	26.5
10172	0.43	5592	0	11.3	28
10282	0.33	5460	0	10.19	45
10391	0.29	5449	0	10.78	24
10500	0.32	5468	0	10.78	24
10625	0.23	5444	0	10.79	24
10750	0.26	5391	0	11.47	24
10860	0.23	5363	0	11.42	24
10969	0.21	5313	0	11.42	24
11078	0.21	5242	0	12.27	24
11203	0.21	5187	0	14.32	24
11313	0.2	5171	0	14.32	24
11438	0.19	5122	0	20.33	24
11547	0.21	5064	0	20.33	24
11657	0.22	5018	0	20.33	24
11766	0.22	5000	0	20.33	24
11875	0.23	4930	0	20.33	24

v109
- Extended throttle mapping to account for redline (throttle was shutting)
- Adjusted all four timing maps to even out timing and drop 3* at 4400+

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing
0	0.33	1693	0	15.77	45.5
109	0.34	1680	0	15.08	46
218	0.35	1682	0	15.08	46
343	0.37	1708	0	15.57	46.5
453	0.36	1706	0	14.73	46.5
578	0.38	1705	0	14.73	46.5
687	0.44	1719	0	14.02	47
796	0.55	1746	0	14.41	47
906	0.62	1749	0	14.41	45.5
1015	0.75	1804	0	14.42	43.5
1140	0.85	1827	0	15.26	40.5
1265	0.87	1870	0	14.02	40.5
1375	0.9	1917	0	14.02	39.5
1484	1.03	1979	0	13.91	35
1593	1.31	2032	0	14.26	22
1703	1.43	2108	0	14.26	18.5
1812	1.51	2157	0	15.83	17
1937	1.56	2239	0	16.41	16
2062	1.64	2351	0	16.41	15
2187	1.73	2437	0	14.19	14.5
2296	1.86	2556	0	14.6	13.5
2406	1.97	2631	0	13.35	13.5
2515	2.03	2780	0	13.35	13.5
2640	2.09	2855	0	12.38	14
2750	2.09	3003	0	11.97	15
2859	2.15	3117	0	11.97	15
2968	2.35	3266	0	12.3	14.5
3078	2.57	3378	0	12.79	13
3187	2.77	3533	0	12.79	13
3312	3.02	3712	0	12.04	13.5
3421	3.45	3878	0	11.01	13.5
3531	4.06	4134	0	11.01	14
3640	4.63	4325	0	11.07	14
3750	5.08	4698	0	10.88	14.5
3859	4.96	4946	0	10.88	14.5
3984	4.77	5292	0	11.1	15
4093	4.69	5540	0	11.66	16
4203	4.67	5698	0	11.85	17
4312	4.56	5986	0	11.85	19
4421	4.44	6252	0	11.75	20.5
4531	4.27	6497	0	11.51	22.5
4656	4.15	6719	0	11.51	23.5
4765	4.02	6890	0	11.48	24
4875	3.53	6687	0	11.44	15
5000	1.83	6335	0	11.44	-15.5
5109	1.05	6292	0	12.27	35
5218	3.21	4881	-2.81	11.57	10.5
5328	4.18	5200	-5.62	11.57	9
5437	4.92	5146	-5.62	12.61	9
5546	4.83	5166	-5.62	11.08	9
5671	4.69	5294	-5.62	11.08	9.5
5781	4.62	5483	-5.62	11.42	10.5
5890	4.58	5650	-5.62	11.54	11
6015	4.58	5738	-5.62	11.8	11.5
6125	4.51	5836	-5.62	11.8	12.5
6234	4.45	5961	-5.62	11.85	13
6359	4.39	6098	-5.27	11.77	14
6484	4.34	6213	-5.27	11.77	15
6593	4.25	6319	-5.27	11.88	16
6703	4.21	6370	-5.27	11.92	16.5
6812	4.18	6484	-5.27	11.92	17
6921	4.1	6638	-5.27	11.82	17.5
7046	3.81	6734	-5.27	12.08	-15
7156	1.75	6403	-5.27	11.58	23.5
7281	3.19	7101	-5.27	11.58	0
7390	3.16	6821	-5.27	11.04	10
7515	3.22	6881	-5.27	20.33	0
7625	3.52	7054	-5.27	20.33	0
7750	1.12	6795	-1.05	20.33	24
7859	0.96	6469	0	20.33	0
7984	0.79	6157	0	20.33	0
8109	0.9	5318	0	13.83	39.5
8234	2.05	5180	0	20.33	-3
8359	3.14	4982	0	19.96	2.5
8468	4.06	5000	0	19.96	14.5
8578	4.79	5063	0	11.07	14.5
8687	4.77	5150	0	10.72	14.5
8796	4.69	5207	0	10.72	14.5
8906	4.69	5289	0	11.51	15
9031	4.68	5343	0	11.67	15
9140	4.64	5414	0	11.67	15.5
9250	4.6	5481	0	11.76	16
9359	4.51	5792	0	11.94	17
9468	4.64	5583	0	11.98	16.5
9578	4.57	5664	0	11.98	16.5
9703	4.54	5760	0	11.97	17.5
9812	4.45	5824	0	11.95	17.5
9937	4.46	5882	0	11.95	18
10046	4.45	5939	0	12.05	18.5
10156	4.43	6002	0	11.88	19
10265	4.38	6057	0	11.88	19.5
10375	4.33	6114	0	12.02	19.5
10500	4.33	6181	0	12.01	20.5
10609	4.3	6240	0	12.01	21
10718	4.26	6331	0	12.04	21
10843	4.26	6353	0	12.08	21.5
10968	4.15	6450	0	11.85	22
11093	2.85	6136	0	11.85	-10.5
11203	1.62	5810	0	11.82	26
11312	2.39	5406	0	11.94	18.5
11421	3.83	5444	0	11.94	16
11531	4.57	5507	-1.41	12.42	15
11640	4.52	5612	-1.05	11.42	15.5
11765	4.48	5663	-1.05	11.44	16
11875	4.46	5720	-1.05	11.44	16
12000	4.47	5752	-1.05	11.52	16.5
12109	4.46	5785	-1.05	11.57	16.5
12218	4.44	5848	-1.05	11.57	17
12328	4.42	5896	-1.05	11.97	17
12453	4.41	5914	-1.05	11.88	17.5
12562	4.36	5978	-1.05	11.88	17.5
12671	4.36	5979	-0.7	11.86	18
12781	4.35	6034	-0.7	11.67	18.5
12890	4.33	6102	-0.7	11.67	19
13015	4.29	6106	-0.7	12	19.5
13125	3.72	6078	-0.7	12.16	29.5
13234	2.14	6228	0	11.23	24.5
13343	0.99	5972	0	11.23	24.5
13453	0.74	6109	0	12.23	24.5
13578	0.46	5982	0	9.6	24
13703	0.35	5902	0	9.6	24
13812	0.27	5896	0	8.82	24
13937	0.23	5798	0	9.57	24
14046	0.27	5770	0	9.57	24
14156	0.25	5688	0	12.3	24
14265	0.24	5616	0	20.33	24
14390	0.21	5536	0	20.33	24
14500	0.19	5483	0	20.33	24
14609	0.2	5406	0	20.33	24
14718	0.2	5303	0	20.33	24
14828	0.21	5252	0	20.33	24
14937	0.21	5304	0	20.33	24
15062	0.2	5263	0	20.33	24
15171	0.19	5223	0	20.33	24
15281	0.19	5180	0	20.33	24
15406	0.21	5095	0	20.33	24
15515	0.22	5027	0	20.33	24
15625	0.22	4982	0	20.33	24
15734	0.21	4930	0	20.33	24

v110
+ v.109 changes incorporated.
- Leaned out primary fuel map just tad. Logs appear to show knock as a results of too much fuel? e85 is weird.

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing
0	0.66	1897	0	13.63	46.5
125	0.68	1924	0	15.7	46.5
234	0.68	1966	0	15.7	47
359	0.68	2000	0	16.55	47.5
469	0.69	2052	0	15.33	47.5
594	0.71	2073	0	13.6	47
703	0.75	2130	0	13.6	46
812	0.76	2151	0	13.17	46
922	0.79	2210	0	13.83	45.5
1047	0.85	2241	0	13.83	44
1156	1.16	2310	0	14.98	33.5
1281	1.44	2378	0	14.85	21.5
1390	1.59	2464	0	14.85	17
1500	1.71	2598	0	15.52	15.5
1609	1.83	2668	0	15.55	14.5
1750	1.91	2790	0	14.55	14.5
1875	2	2900	0	14.55	14.5
2000	2.06	3058	0	12.41	14.5
2109	2.13	3195	0	11.77	15
2219	2.28	3338	0	11.98	15
2328	2.48	3465	0	11.98	13.5
2453	2.65	3641	0	11.79	13.5
2562	2.98	3809	0	11.26	13.5
2687	3.57	4017	0	11.26	13.5
2797	4.18	4384	0	11.11	14
2906	4.85	4568	0	10.8	14
3015	4.96	4944	0	10.8	14.5
3156	4.79	5224	0	10.91	15
3281	4.71	5444	0	11.51	16
3390	4.56	5756	0	11.67	17.5
3500	4.42	6072	0	11.67	19.5
3609	4.31	6331	0	11.61	21.5
3719	4.19	6531	0	11.77	22.5
3844	3.63	7162	0	11.77	-20
3953	1.19	6728	0	11.63	24
4062	2.45	6507	0	13.83	25.5
4172	4.54	4677	-1.41	13.83	13
4281	4.89	4975	-5.62	15.3	9
4390	4.88	4898	-5.62	11.3	9
4515	4.74	5092	-5.62	11.3	9
4625	4.69	5235	-7.03	11.5	8
4734	4.65	5348	-7.03	11.63	8.5
4844	4.59	5481	-7.03	11.51	8.5
4969	4.55	5613	-7.03	11.51	9.5
5094	4.53	5726	-7.03	11.86	10
5203	4.45	5890	-7.03	11.8	11
5312	4.43	5933	-7.03	11.8	11.5
5422	4.39	6040	-7.03	11.7	12.5
5531	4.31	6169	-7.03	12.04	13.5
5640	4.27	6271	-6.68	12.04	14
5765	4.27	6393	-6.68	11.98	15
5906	4.17	6485	-6.68	11.76	15.5
6015	2.75	6605	-3.52	11.76	-13.5
6125	1.37	6292	0	11.76	31
6234	2.4	6355	-2.81	11.17	22
6344	4.13	5039	-2.81	11.1	11.5
6469	4.8	5085	-2.81	11.1	11.5
6578	4.73	5148	-2.81	11.63	12
6687	4.67	5208	-2.81	11.27	12
6797	4.66	5286	-2.81	11.27	12
6906	4.62	5363	-2.81	11.5	12.5
7015	4.61	5428	-2.81	11.75	13
7156	4.59	5494	-2.81	11.79	13
7281	4.55	5561	-2.46	11.79	13.5
7406	4.54	5635	-2.46	11.85	14
7531	4.52	5702	-2.46	11.54	14.5
7640	4.47	5804	-2.46	11.51	15
7750	4.47	5877	-2.46	11.51	15.5
7875	4.46	5923	-2.46	11.94	16
7984	4.37	6007	-2.46	11.76	16.5
8094	4.4	6038	-2.46	11.76	16.5
8219	4.34	6112	-2.46	11.7	17.5
8328	4.29	6200	-2.11	11.97	18
8453	4.28	6234	-2.11	12	18.5
8562	4.28	6318	-2.11	12	19
8672	4.18	6393	-2.11	12	19.5
8781	3.04	6303	-1.41	11.94	29.5
8890	1.61	6616	0	11.94	24.5
9000	0.78	6066	0	10.92	24.5
9109	0.62	6266	0	10.22	24.5
9234	0.41	6136	0	10.22	24
9344	0.29	6057	0	10.2	24
9453	0.22	5916	0	10.69	24
9562	0.27	5910	0	10.69	24
9672	0.27	5833	0	10.7	24
9812	0.25	5724	0	18.76	24
9922	0.19	5590	0	20.33	24
10031	0.2	5552	0	20.33	24
10140	0.2	5530	0	20.33	24
10250	0.19	5466	0	20.33	24
10359	0.19	5379	0	20.33	24
10484	0.19	5306	0	20.33	24
10594	0.2	5298	0	20.33	24
10703	0.21	5240	0	20.33	24
10812	0.21	5165	0	20.33	24
10922	0.2	5188	0	20.33	24
11047	0.21	5154	0	20.33	24
11172	0.21	5145	0	20.33	24
11281	0.2	5108	0	20.33	24
11390	0.19	5106	0	20.33	24
11500	0.2	5073	0	20.33	24
11609	0.2	5081	0	20.33	24
11719	0.2	4999	0	20.33	24
11844	0.21	4970	0	20.33	24
11953	0.21	4919	0	20.33	24
12078	0.21	4852	0	20.33	24
12187	0.22	4838	0	20.33	24
12297	0.22	4786	0	20.33	24
12406	0.22	4693	0	20.33	24
12531	0.21	4657	0	20.33	24
12640	0.21	4605	0	20.33	24
12765	0.21	4544	0	20.33	24
12875	0.21	4478	0	20.33	24
12984	0.22	4447	0	20.33	24
13109	0.22	4417	0	20.33	24
13203	0.22	4354	0	20.33	24
13328	0.22	4309	0	20.33	24
13437	0.21	4282	0	20.33	24
13547	0.22	4229	0	20.33	24
13656	0.21	4224	0	20.33	24
13781	0.2	4162	0	20.33	24
13890	0.21	4136	0	20.33	24
14000	0.21	4121	0	20.33	24
14109	0.21	4112	0	20.33	24
14219	0.21	4102	0	20.33	24
14359	0.21	4094	0	20.33	24
14484	0.21	4062	0	20.33	24

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing
2062	0.54	2276	0	15.61	49.5
2171	0.55	2296	0	14.66	49.5
2296	0.56	2323	0	14.66	49.5
2406	0.59	2348	0	15.07	49
2515	0.59	2355	0	13.72	49
2625	0.64	2409	0	13.72	48.5
2734	0.68	2436	0	14.79	48
2859	0.7	2457	0	14.83	47.5
2968	0.8	2504	0	14.83	46
3078	1.15	2582	0	15.61	35
3187	1.34	2618	0	15.11	25.5
3296	1.47	2734	0	15.11	22.5
3406	1.58	2782	0	15.67	19.5
3515	1.7	2913	0	14.48	18
3640	1.77	2979	0	14.05	17
3750	1.85	3103	0	14.05	16.5
3875	1.91	3206	0	12.72	16.5
3984	0.5	3336	0	12.16	16.5
4109	2.15	3462	0	12.16	16
4218	2.41	3598	0	12.13	14.5
4328	2.7	3766	0	11.76	13
4437	3.08	3940	0	11.76	13.5
4546	3.7	4130	0	11.2	13.5
4656	4.31	4408	0	11	14
4765	4.89	4724	0	11	14
4890	4.83	5099	0	10.78	14.5
5000	4.66	5354	0	11.51	15.5
5109	4.6	5550	0	11.61	16
5234	4.51	5769	0	11.61	17.5
5359	4.35	6124	0	11.75	19.5
5484	4.19	6414	0	11.8	21.5
5578	4.07	6647	0	11.8	23
5703	3.35	6966	0	11.82	-20
5859	1.96	6605	0	11.76	24.5
5984	2.46	6845	0	11.67	25
6093	4.4	4840	0	11.67	14
6203	4.82	5033	0	13.52	14.5
6312	4.67	5124	0	11.48	14.5
6421	4.59	5290	0	11.45	15
6546	4.6	5429	0	11.45	15.5
6656	4.54	5553	0	11.83	16
6781	4.49	5695	0	11.79	17
6890	4.41	5859	0	11.79	18
7000	4.35	5999	0	11.82	18.5
7109	4.31	6110	0	11.82	19.5
7234	4.26	6206	0	11.82	20
7343	4.18	6329	0	11.98	21
7453	4.1	6448	0	11.86	21.5
7578	4.06	6574	0	11.86	22.5
7703	3.96	6712	0	11.91	23
7828	3.88	6854	0	11.82	23.5
7937	1.43	6648	0	12.22	-14.5
8062	1	6379	0	12.22	37.5
8171	2.82	5548	0	12.01	16
8281	4.04	5393	-4.22	12.1	11
8390	4.66	5360	-4.22	12.1	11
8515	4.58	5374	-4.22	11.38	11
8625	4.55	5448	-4.22	11.61	11.5
8734	4.51	5522	-4.22	11.61	11.5
8859	4.52	5626	-4.22	11.83	12
8984	4.52	5624	-4.22	11.79	12
9093	4.46	5706	-4.22	11.82	12.5
9218	4.45	5806	-4.22	11.82	13
9328	4.44	5869	-3.87	11.8	14
9437	4.44	5932	-3.87	11.86	14.5
9546	4.36	5998	-3.87	11.86	15
9671	4.36	6062	-3.87	11.64	15
9781	4.34	6092	-3.87	11.73	15.5
9906	4.29	6156	-3.87	11.8	16
10015	4.29	6214	-3.87	11.8	16.5
10125	4.22	6313	-3.87	11.92	17
10250	4.18	6408	-3.87	11.83	17.5
10375	4.17	6445	-3.87	11.83	18
10500	4.11	6519	-3.87	12.07	18.5
10625	4.03	6548	-3.87	11.94	18.5
10734	1.94	6098	0	12.02	-14
10843	1.23	5940	0	12.02	36.5
10953	3.42	5458	-4.22	11.94	11.5
11078	4.38	5556	-4.22	12.92	12
11187	4.46	5690	-4.22	12.92	12.5
11296	4.44	5686	-4.22	11.5	12.5
11406	4.43	5719	-4.22	11.47	13
11515	4.41	5796	-4.22	11.47	13.5
11656	4.42	5798	-4.22	11.8	13.5
11765	4.39	5889	-4.22	11.82	13.5
11875	4.36	5895	-3.87	11.77	14
11984	4.34	5937	-3.87	11.77	14.5
12109	4.32	6001	-3.87	11.89	15
12218	4.32	6036	-3.87	12.02	15
12343	4.29	6030	-5.27	12.02	13.5
12453	4.25	6112	-5.27	12.16	14.5
12562	4.24	6097	-5.27	12.05	14
12671	4.22	6178	-5.27	12.11	14.5
12796	4.23	6185	-5.27	12.11	15
12906	4.2	6245	-4.92	12.26	15.5
13031	4.18	6247	-4.92	12.07	15.5
13140	7.89	5855	-3.16	12.07	-11.5
13265	1.03	5572	0	11.72	-15.5
13390	0.88	5246	0	11.95	-15.5
13515	0.6	4672	0	9.36	32
13625	0.37	4797	0	9.36	39.5
13734	0.29	4816	0	9.36	42
13843	0.28	4772	0	9.36	42
13953	0.32	4746	0	9.36	24
14062	0.32	4743	0	9.36	24
14187	0.28	4732	0	11.02	24
14312	0.27	4721	0	11.02	24
14421	0.23	4706	0	11.51	24
14531	0.21	4672	0	11.04	24
14640	0.19	4642	0	12.67	24
14765	0.21	4665	0	12.67	24
14875	0.21	4626	0	19.4	24

this time I shifted really slow:

Code:

Time	Load	rpm	FbKC	AFR	Timing
4562	0.24	2512	0	12.16	37
4671	0.3	2483	0	14.07	43
4781	0.44	2478	0	15.85	49.5
4890	0.55	2476	0	15.85	49.5
5000	0.57	2476	0	16.08	49.5
5125	0.59	2501	0	15.02	49
5250	0.56	2513	0	15.02	49.5
5359	0.58	2523	0	14.99	49.5
5468	0.58	2543	0	14.05	49
5578	0.58	2524	0	14.05	49.5
5687	0.59	2567	0	14.1	49
5796	0.61	2593	0	14.44	49
5921	0.61	2612	0	14.36	49
6046	0.6	2616	0	14.36	49
6171	0.59	2635	0	15.16	49
6281	0.59	2646	0	14.76	49
6406	0.61	2683	0	14.76	49
6531	0.62	2694	0	15.02	48.5
6640	0.61	2720	0	14.39	49
6750	0.61	2736	0	15.55	49
6859	0.62	2752	0	15.55	49
6984	0.62	2780	0	14.8	48.5
7093	0.62	2798	0	15.02	48.5
7218	0.63	2836	0	15.02	48.5
7328	0.64	2857	0	14.77	48.5
7437	0.65	2884	0	15.55	48.5
7546	0.67	2915	0	14.29	48
7671	0.78	2945	0	14.29	46.5
7781	0.88	3005	0	14.45	44.5
7890	1.18	3094	0	15.6	34.5
8000	1.27	3134	0	15.6	31
8109	1.32	3223	0	15.98	29.5
8218	1.48	3315	0	13.96	25.5
8343	1.61	3388	0	13.96	22.5
8468	1.71	3528	0	13.07	21
8593	1.81	3632	0	12.52	20
8718	2.04	3784	0	12.26	18.5
8843	2.46	3970	0	12.26	14.5
8968	2.93	4169	0	11.86	13.5
9078	3.65	4296	0	11.05	13.5
9250	4.24	4693	0	10.61	14
9375	4.83	5152	0	10.89	14.5
9484	4.68	5362	0	10.89	15
9593	4.52	5702	0	11.44	17
9718	4.43	5936	0	11.61	18.5
9828	4.33	6140	0	11.61	19.5
9937	4.23	6411	0	11.73	21.5
10046	4.09	6648	0	11.63	23
10156	3.92	6868	0	11.63	24
10265	3.73	6500	0	11.64	15
10390	1.85	6705	0	12.52	-14.5
10500	0.93	6416	0	12.52	-15.5
10609	0.66	6112	0	11.95	-5
10718	0.47	5837	0	10.42	9
10828	0.32	5556	0	10.26	9
10937	0.35	5349	0	10.26	29.5
11062	0.43	4818	0	10.51	37.5
11171	0.95	4685	0	12.11	41
11281	1.65	4942	0	12.11	1.5
11390	2.26	4895	0	19.37	18.5
11500	2.95	4964	-1.41	14.49	13
11609	3.77	5046	-1.41	14.49	13
11734	4.6	5183	-1.41	11.04	13
11843	4.69	5316	-1.41	11.01	13.5
11968	4.59	5454	-1.41	11.01	14
12093	4.52	5620	-1.41	11.55	14.5
12203	4.46	5728	-1.41	11.64	15.5
12312	4.42	5869	-1.41	11.69	16.5
12421	4.35	5986	-1.41	11.69	17
12546	4.28	6116	-1.05	11.89	18.5
12656	4.23	6219	-1.05	12.04	19
12765	4.17	6333	-1.05	12.04	20
12875	4.08	6481	-1.05	11.86	21
12984	4.04	6588	-1.05	11.97	21.5
13093	4	6658	-1.05	11.97	21.5
13218	3.93	6740	-1.05	12.08	22
13343	2.2	6510	0	11.94	-11
13468	1.04	6182	0	10.86	-16
13593	0.79	5844	0	10.86	-16
13703	0.45	5566	0	10.72	9
13812	0.31	5300	0	10.16	9
13937	0.33	5000	0	10.16	27
14046	0.3	4979	0	10.85	35
14156	0.41	4988	0	10.47	42
14281	0.48	4960	0	11.45	42
14390	0.47	4956	0	11.45	42
14515	0.45	4930	0	17.67	42
14625	0.45	4946	0	17.45	42
14750	0.44	4906	0	17.45	42
14875	0.45	4912	0	17.01	42
15000	0.86	4962	0	14.21	40.5
15109	1.53	4959	0	14.6	28.5
15218	1.93	4958	0	14.6	21.5
15328	2.49	5000	0	17.76	16
15437	3.35	5050	0	11.64	14
15562	4.19	5089	0	11.64	14
15671	4.74	5190	0	10.88	14.5
15781	4.67	5228	0	10.97	14.5
15890	4.62	5283	0	10.97	14.5
16015	4.61	5376	0	11.47	15
16140	4.53	5455	0	11.66	15.5
16250	4.52	5517	0	11.66	15.5
16359	4.52	5603	0	11.77	16
16468	4.54	5676	0	11.8	16.5
16578	4.48	5741	0	11.79	17
16687	4.41	5784	0	11.79	17
16796	4.36	5858	0	11.83	17.5
16906	4.38	5919	0	11.95	18
17031	4.35	5985	0	11.95	18.5
17140	4.3	6124	0	11.89	19.5
17265	4.28	6095	0	11.79	19.5
17375	4.21	6152	0	11.79	19.5
17500	4.21	6253	0	12.11	20.5
17593	4.19	6276	0	12.11	20.5
17718	3.83	6829	0	12.11	-16.5
17828	7.66	6563	0	11.97	-13.5
17937	0.87	6266	0	11.05	-16
18046	0.73	5946	0	11.05	41
18171	0.52	5196	0	10.8	42
18296	0.52	5428	0	10.05	34.5
18406	0.9	5310	0	12.32	40
18515	1.07	5246	0	12.32	36.5
18625	1.15	5372	0	20.09	36
18765	1.65	5327	0	14.33	26
18890	1.2	5349	0	13.63	35
19031	1.36	5337	0	13.63	33
19140	1.05	5324	0	12.01	36
19250	0.72	5345	0	12.67	41
19359	0.58	5356	0	12.67	42
19484	0.39	5246	0	10.88	24
19609	0.32	5323	0	11.57	24
19750	0.3	5328	0	10.23	24
19859	0.29	5295	0	10.23	24
19968	0.28	5263	0	11.33	24
20093	0.24	5244	0	11.91	24

ride5000 · 10-07-2009, 08:53 AM

are those wideband afrs? and you're running e85?

if so, dude, you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too rich.

you should be in the mid 12s at full load, not high 10s.

i was running 12.5:1 with 20% meth in the fuel tank years ago. car ran VERY strong.

jm2c
ken

jagstyle · 10-07-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ride5000

are those wideband afrs? and you're running e85?

if so, dude, you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too rich.

you should be in the mid 12s at full load, not high 10s.

i was running 12.5:1 with 20% meth in the fuel tank years ago. car ran VERY strong.

jm2c
ken

yes wideband (LC-1). yes E85

This is my AFR curve logged from a few fourth gear pulls, target is 11.7:

I suffer from the same rich spike issue that most people blame on FMIC piping, however I have a TMIC.

I was led to believe that high 11s (in gasoline terms) is ideal for E85 but I'll do some more research today...

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09-28-2009, 03:00 AM	#2
cash1220 Scooby Newbie Member#: 156342 Join Date: Aug 2007 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Redondo Beach, CA Vehicle: 2004 WRX WRB Sedan Supr16g 19psi 11AFR 91Oct	can you post your timing map? i tuned out my shift knock issues by not advancing as much timing in the high rpm low load cells. dont worry so much about your low load high rpm cells because your turbo is going to spool quick and you'll spend most of your time in the high load cells anyways.

09-29-2009, 12:36 PM	#4
ride5000 Scooby Guru Member#: 32792 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: lincoln, ri Vehicle: 2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+	man.. do stock maps have 50* of advance on them?? seems ridiculously excessive to me.

09-29-2009, 02:01 PM	#6
TMS@DefiantAutospeed Scooby Newbie Member#: 222355 Join Date: Sep 2009 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Beverly,MA	Pull 2-3* in the low load high RPM cells. Ken the 2.5l motors run stupid amounts of timing in that area stock. It seems to help throttle response and low RPM torque.

10-01-2009, 09:02 PM	#8
Remnex Scooby Specialist Member#: 83790 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Tumwater,WA Vehicle: 2009 STI Lightning Red	While I do not currently have my tuned maps on me, I'll look for them, I tuned my 07 STI to 30 PSI on Pump + Meth with my 35R. I experienced the exact same situation that you had with massive shift knock that made the car shift like crap under hard acceleration. I fixed it a couple of ways. First, I made sure that my MAF scaling was perfect, or as close as you can get a 83mm intake, and ensured that my injectors were scaled correctly, tip in was correct and the latency was right on the money. Next, I took a look at the timing maps. From 4k+ rpms the stock cars run retard timing that make the thing drive like poo poo when shift hard. I decreased the timing in the 4.5k+ on low loads, first three columns, to about 44-45 degrees and then interpolated the entire timing curve across until I hit the beginning of my boosted loads of half and full throttle. Next, I vertically hand tuned the timing curve from 4.5K and down on low load to ensure that the timing blended into the cruise/low throttle timing. Did a couple crisp pulls and checked third, fourth and half of fifth for knock. Lastly, I took a tad bit of the fuel out and blended everything together. I was ultimately left with a tune that was street capable and I could bang through the gears like nobody's business. No knock from first -> top of fifth. I have a video here somewhere...

10-04-2009, 03:45 AM	#12
rac Scooby Newbie Member#: 48594 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Zealand Vehicle: 1997 us2.5L ver3 sti white	I would say you will need to take out more than 1-4deg of timing to stop it. For people with aftermaket ecu's that have a timing advance rate setting life is easy.

10-05-2009, 05:00 AM	#15
NSFW Scooby Specialist Member#: 140444 Join Date: Feb 2007 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Near Seattle, WA Vehicle: 05 Legacy GT Wagon ATP 3076 + AVO FMIC	Bump for updates... What's the highest timing you guys run in the sub-1-g/s & over-4k-RPM area? I've been lower mine slowly from stock, now at 42 but I found another knock there in the logs I took today at 5200 rpm and 0.6 load. BTW, the stuff above about 'skipping' over the timing tables - I think that's just an artifact of the slow speed of our loggers. Even Clark's specialized logger is still using SSM queries at 4800 baud, unless he's reflashing higher-speed logging code onto the ECU. That's glacially slow compared how quickly the ECU is actually doing the math. Even within a single log row, we'll always be seeing RPM and load values sampled at two different times.

10-05-2009, 09:08 AM	#16
ride5000 Scooby Guru Member#: 32792 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: lincoln, ri Vehicle: 2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+	i will NEVER run 42 degrees timing anywhere in any map. it's a ridiculous amount of advance. there is no need for it. it's not like you need torque at those load sides.

10-06-2009, 02:47 AM	#17
Remnex Scooby Specialist Member#: 83790 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Tumwater,WA Vehicle: 2009 STI Lightning Red	Sending you back three incremental revisions. Check your e-mail man!

10-07-2009, 02:06 AM	#22
NSFW Scooby Specialist Member#: 140444 Join Date: Feb 2007 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Near Seattle, WA Vehicle: 05 Legacy GT Wagon ATP 3076 + AVO FMIC	Yeah... advance, not torque. It was past my bedtime. Kudos to you for seeing past that. That's the number I was looking for. I'll take a quick drop to 40 and go back to making smaller changes as needed.

10-07-2009, 08:53 AM	#24
ride5000 Scooby Guru Member#: 32792 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: lincoln, ri Vehicle: 2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+	are those wideband afrs? and you're running e85? if so, dude, you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too rich. you should be in the mid 12s at full load, not high 10s. i was running 12.5:1 with 20% meth in the fuel tank years ago. car ran VERY strong. jm2c ken