Need the pros in here...Coolant still bubbling

CKxx · 10-23-2009, 12:32 PM

I tore down my stroked 205 because I was getting 'fizz-like' bubbles coming up into the coolant take when the motor was running. This seems like a pretty clear case of bad HG. I installed new OEM HGs and newly machined heads onto my same block. The deck was checked with a straight edge and looked great. After starting the motor again yesterday and driving ~30 miles, I'm still getting the same fizz-like bubbles (picture what happens from a glass of beer once the head is gone).

I did have a few questions about the o-ringed deck:
See http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1781881

My question now, is whether there could be anything else causing this that doesn't require a new block (which I'm buying now...)? I'd like to do a few more test before ripping it all apart again, but I've pretty much accepted that is what is going to happen.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

avg · 10-23-2009, 12:58 PM

My car has been in the shop for the last week and a half because exhaust gases were detected in the coolant (was having the radiator replaced after it blew), so i did my research on the topic and a bad head gasket is just the best scenario. I was trying to find where I read about it, but if I remember correctly it could be a bent rod or a problem with the block.

Anyway, is that the only symptom your are getting? I never checked for fizz-like bubbles in my coolant, but I had noticed that no matter how much I tightened the coolant hoses, coolant was still leaking out of radiator.

Let me know if you find out what the problem is.

JSarv · 10-23-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKxx

I tore down my stroked 205 because I was getting 'fizz-like' bubbles coming up into the coolant take when the motor was running. This seems like a pretty clear case of bad HG. I installed new OEM HGs and newly machined heads onto my same block. The deck was checked with a straight edge and looked great. After starting the motor again yesterday and driving ~30 miles, I'm still getting the same fizz-like bubbles (picture what happens from a glass of beer once the head is gone).

I did have a few questions about the o-ringed deck:
See http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1781881

My question now, is whether there could be anything else causing this that doesn't require a new block (which I'm buying now...)? I'd like to do a few more test before ripping it all apart again, but I've pretty much accepted that is what is going to happen.

Honestly - I'd start looking into your IAC valve. Your having problems with it, and your getting "air" into your coolant..

Initially it wouldn't make sense as this is happening at idle and there is only a vacuum at idle, however I do believe if the iac valve is/could be malfunctioning it could be diverting "low pressure" air into the coolant passage of the IAC...

Last case it could be a cracked head/block....

-Jerod

69subaru360 · 10-24-2009, 01:25 AM

In your other thread, the surface finish on the deck doesn't look right. It looks too rough.

Uncle Scotty · 10-24-2009, 01:31 AM

i had a funny fizzy bubbling when the lower coolant hose on the turbo was pinched......the cooant coming into the upper tank was like foam

CKxx · 10-24-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSarv

Honestly - I'd start looking into your IAC valve. Your having problems with it, and your getting "air" into your coolant..

Initially it wouldn't make sense as this is happening at idle and there is only a vacuum at idle, however I do believe if the iac valve is/could be malfunctioning it could be diverting "low pressure" air into the coolant passage of the IAC...

Last case it could be a cracked head/block....

-Jerod

I don't have coolant running to my TB anymore. Heads are new. Cracked block is what scares me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69subaru360

In your other thread, the surface finish on the deck doesn't look right. It looks too rough.

I have nothing to compare to at this time, so I can't agree or disagree. Only thing I can say is that it worked fine with at 306whp for 40,000miles. That's when I thought I popped the HG and took it apart. Just reassembled, and here I am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

i had a funny fizzy bubbling when the lower coolant hose on the turbo was pinched......the cooant coming into the upper tank was like foam

I will look into this. I used press-fit -8 AN lines, but the one coming off the head has a decent bend to it. I'll make sure it didn't collapse.

Also, I've got the coolant running through the turbo (30r) in the opposite-of-stock direction for clearance reasons. Could this be an issue? Just wondering.

classicaddict · 10-24-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKxx

I tore down my stroked 205 because I was getting 'fizz-like' bubbles coming up into the coolant take when the motor was running. This seems like a pretty clear case of bad HG. I installed new OEM HGs and newly machined heads onto my same block. The deck was checked with a straight edge and looked great. After starting the motor again yesterday and driving ~30 miles, I'm still getting the same fizz-like bubbles (picture what happens from a glass of beer once the head is gone).

I did have a few questions about the o-ringed deck:
See http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1781881

My question now, is whether there could be anything else causing this that doesn't require a new block (which I'm buying now...)? I'd like to do a few more test before ripping it all apart again, but I've pretty much accepted that is what is going to happen.

this may have been done and i dont mean to insult. but have you tryed a simple coolant compression check? sears sells a kit you attach to the rad cap and compress the cooling system. let it sit and see if it looses pressure. also a cyl leak down test would be a good idea too.

CKxx · 10-24-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicaddict

this may have been done and i dont mean to insult. but have you tryed a simple coolant compression check? sears sells a kit you attach to the rad cap and compress the cooling system. let it sit and see if it looses pressure. also a cyl leak down test would be a good idea too.

I could try it. I will see if any friends have a kit. It isn't dripping any coolant though and has been heat cycled at least 7-8 times in the same spot in my driveway.

02 Scoob-TN · 10-25-2009, 12:43 AM

Others may have suggested this but I want to help, check your upper radiator hose while the cars been running for like 15 mn, if its hard as a rock then you may have a hg issue. Since you've had the heads off a few times and are using arp head bolts you may not have torqued them down correctly since the process is a lil different than with stock bolts. Obviously replace all factory coolant hose clamps(they suck) with new ones that are the band type and a silicon hose kit is a cheap upgrade just for peace of mind(get the 11 piece kit and change them all). Finally if all else fails you may want to try the copper head gasket sealant on your head gaskets. Is the car overheating or is it that you just noticed air in the system? Is your coolant resorvoir/overflow full after test driving? Its hard to track the culprit down, but I usually start with the radiator since the plastic factory one tends to crack and leak, water pump seal, thermo/seal, and work your way to the hoses. The worst is when your bleeding air pressure in the system under acceleration due to the boost in pressure lifting the heads and causing the exhaust pressure to enter the system. Ive even seen turbos bleed air into the coolant system from cracks in the turbo seals. I had these issues and replaced all the basic stuff first than finally tore her down and got her fixed but since I replaced my turbo and all hoses at the same time as rebuild i cant really say what it was...My bubbles did start out small then eventually grew to the point that it would blow most of the coolant into the overflow and i would loose my heater function and all.. The ej205 block is actually pretty stout same with the heads especially if unported..But at least its easy to weld aluminum..Good luck with tracking it down...

CKxx · 10-25-2009, 01:34 AM

The upper hose gets quite hard, but it is hard to describe. I torqued the studs in the same sequence as factory, but simply 45-65-85ft/lb.

I'll also start checking hoses. Like I said, nothing is leaking out of the system, and it is pressurized, so I don't quite follow how else air would be getting in (assuming its not a HG prob). It can't be my turbo because the return line from the turbo feeds the top of the tank. I can see the bubbles coming from below.

There is no issue with overheating, or heat at idle, but I've only driven the car for 40miles. Again, I bleed the system VERY thoroughly, and know what the normal large burp bubbles looks like.

Check this out. It isn't my car, obviously, but pay close attention at exactly 8-10 seconds. Ignore that one big surface bubble. My coolant tank looks like that (the little bubbles). Maybe a TINY bit less frequent...but otherwise similar.

YouTube - Suzuki Swift blown head gasket

JSarv · 10-25-2009, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02 Scoob-TN

Others may have suggested this but I want to help, check your upper radiator hose while the cars been running for like 15 mn, if its hard as a rock then you may have a hg issue. Since you've had the heads off a few times and are using arp head bolts you may not have torqued them down correctly since the process is a lil different than with stock bolts. Obviously replace all factory coolant hose clamps(they suck) with new ones that are the band type and a silicon hose kit is a cheap upgrade just for peace of mind(get the 11 piece kit and change them all). Finally if all else fails you may want to try the copper head gasket sealant on your head gaskets. Is the car overheating or is it that you just noticed air in the system? Is your coolant resorvoir/overflow full after test driving? Its hard to track the culprit down, but I usually start with the radiator since the plastic factory one tends to crack and leak, water pump seal, thermo/seal, and work your way to the hoses. The worst is when your bleeding air pressure in the system under acceleration due to the boost in pressure lifting the heads and causing the exhaust pressure to enter the system. Ive even seen turbos bleed air into the coolant system from cracks in the turbo seals. I had these issues and replaced all the basic stuff first than finally tore her down and got her fixed but since I replaced my turbo and all hoses at the same time as rebuild i cant really say what it was...My bubbles did start out small then eventually grew to the point that it would blow most of the coolant into the overflow and i would loose my heater function and all.. The ej205 block is actually pretty stout same with the heads especially if unported..But at least its easy to weld aluminum..Good luck with tracking it down...

The upper hose will always be hard - all hoses should be fairly hard I mean its a pressurized system. Having an overly hard hose or radiator/hose failure is generally the result of a bad radiator cap (not venting properly)

A radiator cap will vent enough coolant/air for a blown head gasket making it only noticeable with overheat/bubbles/exhaust smoke.

Honestly man - If its not over heating - I'd drive it. If you've gone through it with a fine tooth comb and can't find anything and its something serious - it will eventually show its ugly head (IE cracked head/block)

I'm a huge fan of having everything magnafluxed before building.. If you did this it should have caught any issue or potential issue.

I'm leaning toward sleeve or cracked head - but you would be loosing alot of coolant into the overflow if this was the case...

99.9999% of the time a blown HG WILL cause excessive smoke or over heat...

JSarv · 10-25-2009, 01:50 AM

have you PH tested it?

JSarv · 10-25-2009, 01:53 AM

http://www.tpub.com/content/construc.../14264_227.htm

Sorry triple post.

CKxx · 10-25-2009, 02:01 AM

Yea, the checking for exhaust gas is next. I'm waiting for my IACV to show up in the mail (it broke also, just to insult me) then I will take it to my friend's work and stick the emissions sniffer above the open fill tank. You can tell by the computer's readout the amount of C0 present.

I would have done this already, but my car has the IACV CEL, and ia killing cyl1 and idling at like 1700...it makes for an interesting drive.

EDIT: Like you said, I am going to drive it a bit and keep trying to solve smaller possible causes until I either (a) solve it, or (b) it gets 1000% worse and is obviously a blown HG.

JSarv · 10-25-2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKxx

Yea, the checking for exhaust gas is next. I'm waiting for my IACV to show up in the mail (it broke also, just to insult me) then I will take it to my friend's work and stick the emissions sniffer above the open fill tank. You can tell by the computer's readout the amount of C0 present.

I would have done this already, but my car has the IACV CEL, and ia killing cyl1 and idling at like 1700...it makes for an interesting drive.

I bet.

What all did you have done to the block and heads before/during the build?

IE: Bore/Hone/P&P/Magnaflux

CKxx · 10-25-2009, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSarv

I bet.

What all did you have done to the block and heads before/during the build?

IE: Bore/Hone/P&P/Magnaflux

Heads were fully inspected by machine shop, block had already been in the car for a few years. New OEM HG and ARP studs.

Since the heads were good, this leads me to believe it was a block-related issue all along.

No magnaflux of block since it was already used and the issue seemed to be a basic HG problem.

JSarv · 10-25-2009, 10:31 AM

id drive it

CKxx · 11-01-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSarv

id drive it

One week later...that is what I have been doing. Still doing the same thing. I am going to begin taking it apart soon...

scby rex · 11-01-2009, 09:23 PM

just bubbles or overheats too? Maybe I missed it.

666stars · 11-01-2009, 09:30 PM

My car has been doing this for a few weeks, first the radiator cracked, replaced it with a mishimoto, and filled and did radiator burp by the book. Just kept pushing coolant into overflow and superstiff upper hose. I just hit 200,000 miles so I bit the bullet on a V7 sti longblock. I started pulling my motor today and put the new one in tomorrow.

CKxx · 11-01-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scby rex

just bubbles or overheats too? Maybe I missed it.

No overheating yet, but I am also only driving in vac. I haven't really had a chance to blow a lot of coolant out like it did before the tear-down. That did eventually lead to overheating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666stars

My car has been doing this for a few weeks, first the radiator cracked, replaced it with a mishimoto, and filled and did radiator burp by the book. Just kept pushing coolant into overflow and superstiff upper hose. I just hit 200,000 miles so I bit the bullet on a V7 sti longblock. I started pulling my motor today and put the new one in tomorrow.

It is likely that you were leaking and pressurizing the system, thus cracking your old rad, but the upper hose is normally stiff when the system is hot.

jaxscuby · 11-02-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSarv

Last case it could be a cracked head/block....

-Jerod

found same in friends 02 wagon..
crack from cc to water jacket triangle port between the
2 cylinders..

CKxx · 11-02-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxscuby

found same in friends 02 wagon..
crack from cc to water jacket triangle port between the
2 cylinders..

Interesting. Was is readily visible when the motor was cold?

jaxscuby · 11-02-2009, 05:57 PM

well if i had removed the head and saw it with
my beady eyes, yes..

CKxx · 11-02-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxscuby

well if i had removed the head and saw it with
my beady eyes, yes..

Haha, that is what I meant. Disassembled.

10-23-2009, 12:32 PM	#1
CKxx Scooby Specialist Member#: 33458 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: West Chester, PA Vehicle: 1988 Justy 1.2L 4WD 2002 WRX 2.1L AWD	Need the pros in here...Coolant still bubbling I tore down my stroked 205 because I was getting 'fizz-like' bubbles coming up into the coolant take when the motor was running. This seems like a pretty clear case of bad HG. I installed new OEM HGs and newly machined heads onto my same block. The deck was checked with a straight edge and looked great. After starting the motor again yesterday and driving ~30 miles, I'm still getting the same fizz-like bubbles (picture what happens from a glass of beer once the head is gone). I did have a few questions about the o-ringed deck: See http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1781881 My question now, is whether there could be anything else causing this that doesn't require a new block (which I'm buying now...)? I'd like to do a few more test before ripping it all apart again, but I've pretty much accepted that is what is going to happen. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

10-25-2009, 12:43 AM	#9
02 Scoob-TN Scooby Newbie Member#: 176010 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Nash, TN	These issues are a bia to track... Others may have suggested this but I want to help, check your upper radiator hose while the cars been running for like 15 mn, if its hard as a rock then you may have a hg issue. Since you've had the heads off a few times and are using arp head bolts you may not have torqued them down correctly since the process is a lil different than with stock bolts. Obviously replace all factory coolant hose clamps(they suck) with new ones that are the band type and a silicon hose kit is a cheap upgrade just for peace of mind(get the 11 piece kit and change them all). Finally if all else fails you may want to try the copper head gasket sealant on your head gaskets. Is the car overheating or is it that you just noticed air in the system? Is your coolant resorvoir/overflow full after test driving? Its hard to track the culprit down, but I usually start with the radiator since the plastic factory one tends to crack and leak, water pump seal, thermo/seal, and work your way to the hoses. The worst is when your bleeding air pressure in the system under acceleration due to the boost in pressure lifting the heads and causing the exhaust pressure to enter the system. Ive even seen turbos bleed air into the coolant system from cracks in the turbo seals. I had these issues and replaced all the basic stuff first than finally tore her down and got her fixed but since I replaced my turbo and all hoses at the same time as rebuild i cant really say what it was...My bubbles did start out small then eventually grew to the point that it would blow most of the coolant into the overflow and i would loose my heater function and all.. The ej205 block is actually pretty stout same with the heads especially if unported..But at least its easy to weld aluminum..Good luck with tracking it down...

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-23-2009, 12:58 PM	#2
avg Scooby Newbie Member#: 183970 Join Date: Jul 2008 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Long island, NY Vehicle: 2004 WRX WRB	My car has been in the shop for the last week and a half because exhaust gases were detected in the coolant (was having the radiator replaced after it blew), so i did my research on the topic and a bad head gasket is just the best scenario. I was trying to find where I read about it, but if I remember correctly it could be a bent rod or a problem with the block. Anyway, is that the only symptom your are getting? I never checked for fizz-like bubbles in my coolant, but I had noticed that no matter how much I tightened the coolant hoses, coolant was still leaking out of radiator. Let me know if you find out what the problem is.

10-24-2009, 01:25 AM	#4
69subaru360 Scooby Specialist Member#: 159682 Join Date: Sep 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Fleetwood, PA Vehicle: 1995 Impreza coupe 1969 360	In your other thread, the surface finish on the deck doesn't look right. It looks too rough.

10-24-2009, 01:31 AM	#5
Uncle Scotty Scooby Guru Member#: 16200 Join Date: Mar 2002 Vehicle: bah straw and coal straw and coal as always	i had a funny fizzy bubbling when the lower coolant hose on the turbo was pinched......the cooant coming into the upper tank was like foam

10-25-2009, 01:50 AM	#12
JSarv NASIOC Supporter Member#: 163445 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Effingham IL (Central IL) Vehicle: l33t ******* 12.07@115.9mph-EJ205	have you PH tested it?

10-25-2009, 01:53 AM	#13
JSarv NASIOC Supporter Member#: 163445 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Effingham IL (Central IL) Vehicle: l33t ******* 12.07@115.9mph-EJ205	http://www.tpub.com/content/construc.../14264_227.htm Sorry triple post.

10-25-2009, 02:01 AM	#14
CKxx Scooby Specialist Member#: 33458 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: West Chester, PA Vehicle: 1988 Justy 1.2L 4WD 2002 WRX 2.1L AWD	Yea, the checking for exhaust gas is next. I'm waiting for my IACV to show up in the mail (it broke also, just to insult me) then I will take it to my friend's work and stick the emissions sniffer above the open fill tank. You can tell by the computer's readout the amount of C0 present. I would have done this already, but my car has the IACV CEL, and ia killing cyl1 and idling at like 1700...it makes for an interesting drive. EDIT: Like you said, I am going to drive it a bit and keep trying to solve smaller possible causes until I either (a) solve it, or (b) it gets 1000% worse and is obviously a blown HG.

10-25-2009, 10:31 AM	#17
JSarv NASIOC Supporter Member#: 163445 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Effingham IL (Central IL) Vehicle: l33t ******* 12.07@115.9mph-EJ205	id drive it

11-01-2009, 09:23 PM	#19
scby rex Scooby Guru Member#: 104878 Join Date: Jan 2006 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: copperas cove Vehicle: 02 wrxbastardchild aw	just bubbles or overheats too? Maybe I missed it.

11-01-2009, 09:30 PM	#20
666stars Scooby Newbie Member#: 221364 Join Date: Aug 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Vehicle: 2002 Wrx EJ207 nside Wrb now with 100% more V7	My car has been doing this for a few weeks, first the radiator cracked, replaced it with a mishimoto, and filled and did radiator burp by the book. Just kept pushing coolant into overflow and superstiff upper hose. I just hit 200,000 miles so I bit the bullet on a V7 sti longblock. I started pulling my motor today and put the new one in tomorrow.

11-02-2009, 05:57 PM	#24
jaxscuby Scooby Guru Member#: 10613 Join Date: Sep 2001 Chapter/Region: South East Location: OP / Jax Vehicle: 2002 WRX blue	well if i had removed the head and saw it with my beady eyes, yes..