Land lord dispute question (while the lawyers are in the house)

Five9Dak · 10-30-2009, 12:05 AM

My roomate and I moved into and lived in an apartment where some things were not perfect. There was a cracked window, dented closet door, cove molding falling off walls, multiple nail holes among other things. All of these things, aside from the window were noted on move in paperwork. Two years later, we move out, clean well, spackle new holes we made, as well as pre-existing ones, per lease.

500 dollars worth of charges show up on our security deposit deduction. They include cleaning (employee doing our move out inspection commented it the cleanest unit she saw in the whole building?), removing personal items (three hangers and a plunger!) and damages. All the damages listed were pre-existing and we didn't do. We didn't cash the check, I wrote a letter to the real estate company stating we feel we were unfairly charged and would like copys of reciepts for the work performed as well as our move in paper work, and a meeting to discuss the matter.

No meeting, I get a letter in the mail, saying they have no move in paperwork for our unit, so there is no proof the damages were not pre-existing, they would not negogiate and it is the last time they would consider the issue.

I have my pink carbon copy of the move in paper work that is signed and dated by one of their employees. Should I:

Try to reason with them to get all my money back, try to reason with them to get all back that I can prove with my copy, take them to court and try to get what I can prove, or take them to court and try to prove they were negligent with our paperwork? In PA the onus of proof for damages is on the landlord, without that paperwork, they really have no proof for anything or business charging us for anything but cleaning.

How should I approach this, should I let them see the sheet, should I let them read the sheet, should I be talking court first or settlement/compromise?

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Brad Pittiful · 10-30-2009, 12:23 AM

Dark and lonely on a summer's night.
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
Watchdog barking. Do he bite?
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
Slip in his window. Break his neck.
Then his house I start to wreck.
Got no reason. What the heck?
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
C-I-L my land lord!

ninethreeeleven · 10-30-2009, 12:25 AM

Approach it outside of the court.

Bring to them (a copy of) the paperwork that you hold. Show them and have them confirm that it's one of their employees (possibly former at this time).

Removal of a plunger might not be recoverable as that's pretty disgusting. Correction of the "damage" is unknown as you didn't describe it.

Go into more detail in your post, I know it's long but you didn't really detail anything (beyond your complaints of what you didn't do wrong, which is common for people in your position).

What was the previous damage.
Itemize the "charges" as best you can.
Explain what you mean by "we didn't cash the check" as I have no idea what you're saying there. Why are you receiving a check? (unless you're security deposit was for over $500 and you're not cashing the remaining deposit as a showing that you don't agree with the "charges." If that's the case DO NOT CASH/DEPOSIT it.)

Matt K · 10-30-2009, 12:30 AM

**** them in the ass. they're just trying to strongarm you. most likely, if they really don't have the paperwork, they're ****ed. tenants tend to have a lot of rights.

Fuzz541 · 10-30-2009, 12:59 AM

They've done this 1,000 times before to college kids with high powered attorney parents. They're banking on the fact that it will probably cost you more than $500 to go after them and it's not worth it. So you have several options:

- Sue them with a lawyer for your loss plus costs = risky for them and for you, but you may get your munnyz back stick it to them
- Sue them in small claims court for your loss = little risk to you, they'll probably stall hoping you'll give up
- http://www.shomer-tec.com/department...roducts-33.cfm = lots of risk to you, you'll probably go to jail

See if there's a tenants' organization in your area.

Edit: you can has!

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive..._awaits_v.aspx

JjSwee · 10-30-2009, 01:05 AM

Copy the sheet, send it to them, see if they give you the money back. Repeat: COPY. Do NOT give them the original.

Whats all this court business. See how they react to proof before you start calling up lawyers.

Five9Dak · 10-30-2009, 01:10 AM

Plunger was intentionally left for new tennants next to toliet in covered stand, as were the weird three way light bulbs all the lamps in the place take (They didnt complain about those because I suspect maintence swiped them) Hangers were left by accident.

Our deposit was more than 500 dollars, we haven't cashed the difference.

I was charged to replace a dented closet door. (69) The door was noted as dented and functioning poorly on move-in. There was a service call againts said door while we were tennants because it religiously fell off it's track. The service call didn't really fix it, so it remained open for 1.5+ years after that.

I was charged for labor, spackle and primer for the repaint of the unit (105 dollars). The lease specified all holes should be spackled on move out to avoid charges. I spackled holes I made, as well as every hole I could find. There were 15+ existing holes noted on move in.

I was charged 74 dollars for cleaning. On move out one of their employees commented it was the cleanest unit they had seen in the whole building and she was very impressed. So this also came as a big shocker.

I was charged to replace a window that had a crack in it ($171). This damage was pre-existing but didn't make it onto our move in paperwork. It was not in danger of falling apart, or drafty, so we never called to have it fixed. This wasn't a luxuary apartment, so we didn't bitch about all these little problems.

There is a 15% "administration fee" charged to all deductions from the security deposit. Currently sitting at 62.96. This is BS but it is in the lease, so not much I can do besides trying to reduce the deductions as much as possible.
This is all a huge slap in the face after paying more than 21k in rent over two years, and recommending the real estate company to my friends because of how well they handled everything until now.

I was trying to remember the name of the landlord dispute thing here at PSU. I wonder how quickly I can get in touch with them.

Uncle Scotty · 10-30-2009, 01:15 AM

i had a similar thing happen to me once

I had taken MANY- MANY pictures of the entire apartment, with the rental manager in several of them POINTING to discrepancies noted in the move in checklist

and they STILL tried to **** me outa ALL my deposit

I had had double prints made and sent a set and copies of the move in paperwork to them with a letter stating that they were full of **** and I had the proof.

It still took 9 months and several follow up letters to get my deposit back and that took me going back to the property and sitting in their office for an hour while they groaned about it.

industrial · 10-30-2009, 01:24 AM

They have to give you a receipt/invoice of the work done. It sounds like a large building so they probably have on site maintenance so they can probably fabricate any invoices they need. Regardless, insist firmly on obtaining a copy of the receipts for damages. After you have those in hand, produce your copy of the move in sheet and do some simple math and get what will be most of your money back. If it become an official legal fight, I don't think it will be worth your time and effort for $500 but that's what they are banking on.

In the future, I would take pictures of any unit you rent upon move in detailing any pre-existing conditions as well as keep a copy of the move in sheet like you already did. There are alot of scumbags in the landlord business.

Five9Dak · 10-30-2009, 01:29 AM

Terrific.I could get legal representation for free from my cousin, but I'd feel bad as it's not really worth bothering him about.

We checked through our pictures and videos to see if the broken window showed up, but none of them were dated early enough to be decent proof. Two months after move in is the earlier I could find.

I do have their receipts, some are from their own maintence company, some are outsourced.

Gravel X-Press · 10-30-2009, 02:01 AM

You go to PSU. They should have legal aid for students. I went to University of FL and they had several full-time attorneys to speak to reagarding various issues. Look into that, first and follow their directions.

You've taken a good first step in disputing the security refund and not cashing the check.

Them telling you "this is the last time we'll consider this," is crap. They say that hoping that you'll go away.

If PA requires landlord to prove damages, then if they cannot prove that the apartment was in perfect condition when you moved in, then they're in a heap of trouble. Also, most states/leases permit "reasonable wear," which includes holes from picture haning and scuffs (touch-up painting is considered the landlord's problem).

You should not have left any personal belongings behind. However, removing a plunger and 3 hangars is worth, perhaps, $25. As for cleaning, most states only require "broom clean." This does not mean spotless. It means, the reasonable person would be comfortable to move in without having to do extra cleaning beforehand.

1st, speak to PSU legal services or another attorney. Barring that, send the check back to them. Tell them that you "reject their refund of your security deposit as unreasonably reduced." Demand proof, documentation and a reasonable explanation for their reductions. Warn them that failure to provide such proof will result in a lawsuit (if you're actually prepared for and intend to file a lawsuit).

Your paperwork may only end up hurting you in court (because it doesn't have the cracked window noted). However, intentionally destroying evidence is a crime, so don't destroy the paperwork trying to avoid them being discovered by your opponent. However, you may not want to disclose that paperwork in court if your opponent didn't demand that you produce it (it's a strategic thing, you should talk to an attorney).

Talk to PSU student services, I can't believe PSU wouldn't have legal services!!!!!

Jessie James · 10-30-2009, 02:22 AM

OH HELL NO.

If the landlord does not have a copy of the move-in inspection, they lose. Period. End of story. You simply write them a letter that says "As you do not have a copy of the move-in inspection, and I do, you are in violation of state landlord tenant laws as the burden of proof for damages fall upon you. I can prove the damages were not caused by me during my tenancy - you cannot. As a result, I strongly recommend you refund me the entire deposit within 7 business days. If you chose not to refund me the entire deposit, I will contact the Attorney General's Bureau of Consumer Protection and file a complaint, and I will take you to court and you will refund me my entire deposit, pay my court costs, pay state fines (which are doubled), and pay my lawyer fees."

NOTE: Do NOT send them a copy of the checklist. Do NOT give them anything to use against you.

FYI - In most states, the landlord tenant "handbook" is online. Here is yours:

From http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/consumers.aspx?id=405 (official)

Quote:

Security Deposit

A security deposit is money which actually belongs to the tenant, but is held by the landlord for protection against damages or unpaid rent.

During the first year of a lease, the amount of a security deposit cannot exceed two months rent.

Beginning with the second year of a lease, a landlord cannot retain a security deposit of more than one month's rent. Any security deposit greater than $100 held by a landlord must be placed in a bank in escrow.

The Landlord Tenant Act requires that interest be paid on security deposits held over two years.

After taking out damages and unpaid rent, a landlord or property owner must send its tenants the list of damages and/or the full or partial security deposit no later than 30 days after the lease ends or when the landlord accepts the tentants' keys to vacate the premises early, whichever occurs first. The law requires landlords to pay twice the amount of the security deposit if they fail to provide consumers with the list of damages along with any refund due.

Review the law: Pennsylvania's Landlord Tenant Act

If you have a problem or a dispute with a landlord or any other business, you can call the Attorney General's Bureau of Consumer Protection at 1-800-441-2555, or you can also file an online complaint.

Links:

Landlord tenant act:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploa...tenant_act.pdf

Page 18 is VERY INTERESTING...

Quote:

(c) If the landlord fails to pay the tenant the difference between the sum
deposited, including any unpaid interest thereon, and the actual damages to the leasehold premises caused by the tenant within thirty days after termination of the lease or surrender and acceptance of the leasehold premises, the landlord shall be liable in assumpsit to double the amount by which the sum deposited in escrow, including any unpaid interest thereon, exceeds the actual damages to the leasehold premises caused by the tenant as determined by any court of record or court not of record having jurisdiction in civil actions at law. The burden of proof of actual damages caused by the tenant to the leasehold premises shall be on the landlord.

File an online complaint:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/complaints.aspx?id=451

Give 'em hell. Seriously. You have everything to gain.

flghtmstr1 · 10-30-2009, 01:33 PM

I'm the roommate in this situation. He is right, and Jesse James seems to interpret the law the same way I do. Since the burden of proof is on them, I think we're going to go that route.

Asinine · 10-30-2009, 01:38 PM

I bet it's the same f***ing crooks who f***ed me out of my security deposit when I moved out of my apartment on Foster Ave. The university has a lawyer on retainer for free to students. He deals with this very same thing every single day and has form letters ready to go out to the rental properties. Look into it.

jdrob · 10-30-2009, 01:50 PM

I feel like chanting JESSIE JAMES. Don't roll over!!

MacintoshMan · 10-30-2009, 01:53 PM

Step 1: Find Espetus in or near where you lived. (must be on their property)
Step 2: present doctors office visit
Step 3: develop a bad cough and complain about always feeling sick
Step 4: profit =]

srsly · 10-30-2009, 02:02 PM

if this comes to a legal battle it will not ruin you financially. this is a small claims matter. as people have pointed out the burden of proof is all on the landlord to show you did this damage and you're one up on them since you actually have proof that you didn't.

i would say point this out to them and if they aren't going to play ball just sue them in small claims for the amount of your deposit. i'm assuming it's less the $4-5k? pretty sure that's a safe limit for most small claims courts. best part is it only costs your time and about $30. they can't bring lawyers and you have all the evidence. so even if it goes that far it should be a slam dunk for you.

N1KN4K · 10-30-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessie James

OH HELL NO.

Legal stuff

Holy **** op, you got 'em by the balls.

flghtmstr1 · 10-31-2009, 04:50 PM

Thumbs up their asses...thumbs up their asses.

yankeesfan · 10-31-2009, 06:08 PM

Didnt read the other posts but i deal with this **** every DAY!! I run an apartment complex and if we can not provide the copy of the move-in inspection how in the hell can i charge you for move out damages? I have no idea what was wrong with the apt before you moved in. Fight that ****

Qcanfixit · 10-31-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessie James

OH HELL NO.

If the landlord does not have a copy of the move-in inspection, they lose. Period. End of story. You simply write them a letter that says "As you do not have a copy of the move-in inspection, and I do, you are in violation of state landlord tenant laws as the burden of proof for damages fall upon you. I can prove the damages were not caused by me during my tenancy - you cannot. As a result, I strongly recommend you refund me the entire deposit within 7 business days. If you chose not to refund me the entire deposit, I will contact the Attorney General's Bureau of Consumer Protection and file a complaint, and I will take you to court and you will refund me my entire deposit, pay my court costs, pay state fines (which are doubled), and pay my lawyer fees."

NOTE: Do NOT send them a copy of the checklist. Do NOT give them anything to use against you.

FYI - In most states, the landlord tenant "handbook" is online. Here is yours:

From http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/consumers.aspx?id=405 (official)

Links:

Landlord tenant act:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploa...tenant_act.pdf

Page 18 is VERY INTERESTING...

File an online complaint:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/complaints.aspx?id=451

Give 'em hell. Seriously. You have everything to gain.

You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different.

aerostar · 10-31-2009, 06:15 PM

I'd seriously just sit at home and cry. There's no solution.

10-30-2009, 12:05 AM	#1
Five9Dak Scooby Newbie Member#: 103264 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: PSU Vehicle: 1999 Dakota 5.9L R/T Black	Land lord dispute question (while the lawyers are in the house) My roomate and I moved into and lived in an apartment where some things were not perfect. There was a cracked window, dented closet door, cove molding falling off walls, multiple nail holes among other things. All of these things, aside from the window were noted on move in paperwork. Two years later, we move out, clean well, spackle new holes we made, as well as pre-existing ones, per lease. 500 dollars worth of charges show up on our security deposit deduction. They include cleaning (employee doing our move out inspection commented it the cleanest unit she saw in the whole building?), removing personal items (three hangers and a plunger!) and damages. All the damages listed were pre-existing and we didn't do. We didn't cash the check, I wrote a letter to the real estate company stating we feel we were unfairly charged and would like copys of reciepts for the work performed as well as our move in paper work, and a meeting to discuss the matter. No meeting, I get a letter in the mail, saying they have no move in paperwork for our unit, so there is no proof the damages were not pre-existing, they would not negogiate and it is the last time they would consider the issue. I have my pink carbon copy of the move in paper work that is signed and dated by one of their employees. Should I: Try to reason with them to get all my money back, try to reason with them to get all back that I can prove with my copy, take them to court and try to get what I can prove, or take them to court and try to prove they were negligent with our paperwork? In PA the onus of proof for damages is on the landlord, without that paperwork, they really have no proof for anything or business charging us for anything but cleaning. How should I approach this, should I let them see the sheet, should I let them read the sheet, should I be talking court first or settlement/compromise? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by Five9Dak; 10-30-2009 at 12:14 AM.

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10-30-2009, 12:23 AM	#2
Brad Pittiful NASIOC Supporter Member#: 34931 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: A Town Called Malice Vehicle: Dee Dee Ramone says eat dope and potato chips	Dark and lonely on a summer's night. Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord. Watchdog barking. Do he bite? Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord. Slip in his window. Break his neck. Then his house I start to wreck. Got no reason. What the heck? Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord. C-I-L my land lord!

10-30-2009, 12:25 AM	#3
ninethreeeleven Scooby Specialist Member#: 99777 Join Date: Nov 2005 Chapter/Region: International Location: North Dakota doesn't exist.	Approach it outside of the court. Bring to them (a copy of) the paperwork that you hold. Show them and have them confirm that it's one of their employees (possibly former at this time). Removal of a plunger might not be recoverable as that's pretty disgusting. Correction of the "damage" is unknown as you didn't describe it. Go into more detail in your post, I know it's long but you didn't really detail anything (beyond your complaints of what you didn't do wrong, which is common for people in your position). What was the previous damage. Itemize the "charges" as best you can. Explain what you mean by "we didn't cash the check" as I have no idea what you're saying there. Why are you receiving a check? (unless you're security deposit was for over $500 and you're not cashing the remaining deposit as a showing that you don't agree with the "charges." If that's the case DO NOT CASH/DEPOSIT it.)

10-30-2009, 12:30 AM	#4
Matt K Scooby Specialist Member#: 45204 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: you are so complex Vehicle: 16 you don't respond to danger	** them in the ass. they're just trying to strongarm you. most likely, if they really don't have the paperwork, they're **ed. tenants tend to have a lot of rights.

10-30-2009, 12:59 AM	#5
Fuzz541 Scooby Specialist Member#: 4739 Join Date: Mar 2001 Vehicle: 2009 Later. It's been fun.	They've done this 1,000 times before to college kids with high powered attorney parents. They're banking on the fact that it will probably cost you more than $500 to go after them and it's not worth it. So you have several options: - Sue them with a lawyer for your loss plus costs = risky for them and for you, but you may get your munnyz back stick it to them - Sue them in small claims court for your loss = little risk to you, they'll probably stall hoping you'll give up - http://www.shomer-tec.com/department...roducts-33.cfm = lots of risk to you, you'll probably go to jail See if there's a tenants' organization in your area. Edit: you can has! http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive..._awaits_v.aspx

10-30-2009, 01:05 AM	#6
JjSwee Scooby Newbie Member#: 75880 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Philadelphia, PA Vehicle: 1997 Legacy GT	Copy the sheet, send it to them, see if they give you the money back. Repeat: COPY. Do NOT give them the original. Whats all this court business. See how they react to proof before you start calling up lawyers.

10-30-2009, 01:10 AM	#7
Five9Dak Scooby Newbie Member#: 103264 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: PSU Vehicle: 1999 Dakota 5.9L R/T Black	Plunger was intentionally left for new tennants next to toliet in covered stand, as were the weird three way light bulbs all the lamps in the place take (They didnt complain about those because I suspect maintence swiped them) Hangers were left by accident. Our deposit was more than 500 dollars, we haven't cashed the difference. I was charged to replace a dented closet door. (69) The door was noted as dented and functioning poorly on move-in. There was a service call againts said door while we were tennants because it religiously fell off it's track. The service call didn't really fix it, so it remained open for 1.5+ years after that. I was charged for labor, spackle and primer for the repaint of the unit (105 dollars). The lease specified all holes should be spackled on move out to avoid charges. I spackled holes I made, as well as every hole I could find. There were 15+ existing holes noted on move in. I was charged 74 dollars for cleaning. On move out one of their employees commented it was the cleanest unit they had seen in the whole building and she was very impressed. So this also came as a big shocker. I was charged to replace a window that had a crack in it ($171). This damage was pre-existing but didn't make it onto our move in paperwork. It was not in danger of falling apart, or drafty, so we never called to have it fixed. This wasn't a luxuary apartment, so we didn't bitch about all these little problems. There is a 15% "administration fee" charged to all deductions from the security deposit. Currently sitting at 62.96. This is BS but it is in the lease, so not much I can do besides trying to reduce the deductions as much as possible. This is all a huge slap in the face after paying more than 21k in rent over two years, and recommending the real estate company to my friends because of how well they handled everything until now. I was trying to remember the name of the landlord dispute thing here at PSU. I wonder how quickly I can get in touch with them.

10-30-2009, 01:15 AM	#8
Uncle Scotty Scooby Guru Member#: 16200 Join Date: Mar 2002 Vehicle: bah straw and coal straw and coal as always	i had a similar thing happen to me once I had taken MANY- MANY pictures of the entire apartment, with the rental manager in several of them POINTING to discrepancies noted in the move in checklist and they STILL tried to ** me outa ALL my deposit I had had double prints made and sent a set and copies of the move in paperwork to them with a letter stating that they were full of ** and I had the proof. It still took 9 months and several follow up letters to get my deposit back and that took me going back to the property and sitting in their office for an hour while they groaned about it.

10-30-2009, 01:24 AM	#9
industrial Scooby Specialist Member#: 7250 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Home Vehicle: 1986 Univega Arrow Teal, 9 speed	They have to give you a receipt/invoice of the work done. It sounds like a large building so they probably have on site maintenance so they can probably fabricate any invoices they need. Regardless, insist firmly on obtaining a copy of the receipts for damages. After you have those in hand, produce your copy of the move in sheet and do some simple math and get what will be most of your money back. If it become an official legal fight, I don't think it will be worth your time and effort for $500 but that's what they are banking on. In the future, I would take pictures of any unit you rent upon move in detailing any pre-existing conditions as well as keep a copy of the move in sheet like you already did. There are alot of scumbags in the landlord business.

10-30-2009, 01:29 AM	#10
Five9Dak Scooby Newbie Member#: 103264 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: PSU Vehicle: 1999 Dakota 5.9L R/T Black	Terrific.I could get legal representation for free from my cousin, but I'd feel bad as it's not really worth bothering him about. We checked through our pictures and videos to see if the broken window showed up, but none of them were dated early enough to be decent proof. Two months after move in is the earlier I could find. I do have their receipts, some are from their own maintence company, some are outsourced.

10-30-2009, 02:01 AM	#11
Gravel X-Press Scooby Newbie Member#: 224942 Join Date: Sep 2009 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: North NJ Vehicle: 1997 Impreza Outback Sport 2.2 Litre	You go to PSU. They should have legal aid for students. I went to University of FL and they had several full-time attorneys to speak to reagarding various issues. Look into that, first and follow their directions. You've taken a good first step in disputing the security refund and not cashing the check. Them telling you "this is the last time we'll consider this," is crap. They say that hoping that you'll go away. If PA requires landlord to prove damages, then if they cannot prove that the apartment was in perfect condition when you moved in, then they're in a heap of trouble. Also, most states/leases permit "reasonable wear," which includes holes from picture haning and scuffs (touch-up painting is considered the landlord's problem). You should not have left any personal belongings behind. However, removing a plunger and 3 hangars is worth, perhaps, $25. As for cleaning, most states only require "broom clean." This does not mean spotless. It means, the reasonable person would be comfortable to move in without having to do extra cleaning beforehand. 1st, speak to PSU legal services or another attorney. Barring that, send the check back to them. Tell them that you "reject their refund of your security deposit as unreasonably reduced." Demand proof, documentation and a reasonable explanation for their reductions. Warn them that failure to provide such proof will result in a lawsuit (if you're actually prepared for and intend to file a lawsuit). Your paperwork may only end up hurting you in court (because it doesn't have the cracked window noted). However, intentionally destroying evidence is a crime, so don't destroy the paperwork trying to avoid them being discovered by your opponent. However, you may not want to disclose that paperwork in court if your opponent didn't demand that you produce it (it's a strategic thing, you should talk to an attorney). Talk to PSU student services, I can't believe PSU wouldn't have legal services!!!!!

10-30-2009, 01:33 PM	#13
flghtmstr1 Scooby Newbie Member#: 161022 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philadelphia Vehicle: 2001 Mustang GT 10.5 psi	I'm the roommate in this situation. He is right, and Jesse James seems to interpret the law the same way I do. Since the burden of proof is on them, I think we're going to go that route.

10-30-2009, 01:38 PM	#14
Asinine Scooby Specialist Member#: 55173 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Further inspection of Vehicle: the engine bay uncovers...	I bet it's the same f*ing crooks who f*ed me out of my security deposit when I moved out of my apartment on Foster Ave. The university has a lawyer on retainer for free to students. He deals with this very same thing every single day and has form letters ready to go out to the rental properties. Look into it.

10-30-2009, 01:50 PM	#15
jdrob Scooby Newbie Member#: 125161 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: MA Vehicle: 2004 STI WRB	I feel like chanting JESSIE JAMES. Don't roll over!!

10-30-2009, 01:53 PM	#16
MacintoshMan Scooby Specialist Member#: 160863 Join Date: Oct 2007 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: 101 and the 118 Vehicle: 2007 Ford F100	Step 1: Find Espetus in or near where you lived. (must be on their property) Step 2: present doctors office visit Step 3: develop a bad cough and complain about always feeling sick Step 4: profit =]

10-30-2009, 02:02 PM	#17
srsly Scooby Newbie Member#: 93910 Join Date: Aug 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: seattle Vehicle: 2005 WRX Wagon 2009 Ninja 250r	if this comes to a legal battle it will not ruin you financially. this is a small claims matter. as people have pointed out the burden of proof is all on the landlord to show you did this damage and you're one up on them since you actually have proof that you didn't. i would say point this out to them and if they aren't going to play ball just sue them in small claims for the amount of your deposit. i'm assuming it's less the $4-5k? pretty sure that's a safe limit for most small claims courts. best part is it only costs your time and about $30. they can't bring lawyers and you have all the evidence. so even if it goes that far it should be a slam dunk for you.

10-31-2009, 04:50 PM	#19
flghtmstr1 Scooby Newbie Member#: 161022 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philadelphia Vehicle: 2001 Mustang GT 10.5 psi	Thumbs up their asses...thumbs up their asses.

10-31-2009, 06:08 PM	#20
yankeesfan Scooby Specialist Member#: 182065 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lancaster, PA Vehicle: 2005 STI Blue	Didnt read the other posts but i deal with this ** every DAY!! I run an apartment complex and if we can not provide the copy of the move-in inspection how in the hell can i charge you for move out damages? I have no idea what was wrong with the apt before you moved in. Fight that **

10-31-2009, 06:15 PM	#22
aerostar Scooby Specialist Member#: 103512 Join Date: Dec 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2006 WRX WRB	I'd seriously just sit at home and cry. There's no solution.