Beware the small business!!

[Legacy_H6TT]

Ok, so the title is a bit of a generalisation... more beware the individual tradesman working from home! I had thought about putting this thread in my Body Restoration area but then figured it applied to all trades and that the entire community should be aware of this.

Lets tell a little story... I was looking for a painter for my Legacy. The usual ask around of mates turned up nothing, and then one day I picked up a semi-professional looking business card from my local Auto Parts store advertising Custom Refinishing. Ideal I thought, so called the number and left a message.

The same day the guy called back and we discussed the job. He said he'd be keen and offered to come and give a free quote, so we met up a day or 2 later and he explained how he worked from home and hired a spray booth at another location for final topcoat. A little inconvenient I thought but nevertheless he appeared quite on to it and gave a reasonable quote and timeframe. So far so good....

Ok, fast forward through a patch of bad weather where it was impossible to move the bare metal shell, we eventually get it to his workshop and I hand over $1400 for materials, with the balance of the quote on completion - again a fairly standard practice.

This is the shell as I delivered it to his workshop;





A couple weeks went by of pretty ****ty weather, so I accept that not much could be done, but there were a few other things I asked him to do which I figured could be. There were then 3 days of great weather where I had expected the primer to be applied. Needless to say, it wasn't.

You can guess where this is going...?

I had planned a vacation away for 2 weeks and said to him if it wasn't at least in primer by the time I get back then I'm pulling the plug and would want my $1400 back, or the materials and cash for any difference. He said it wasn't a problem and it would be done. I said thats fine and promised not to bother him; I was on holiday after all and wanted to enjoy myself, trusting him to do what he had said he would.

2 weeks later I return and find this;















You can imagine my response...! So this car has sat in his workshop, exposed to the elements, with the doors open the whole time, and he hasn't even done any of the work I asked him to do, let alone primed it!! I was left with no option but to pull the plug and get it out of there. All the effort I had put into it had to be redone, being in a worse state than when I delivered it to him. So much for his "Kustom Refinishing..."

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting small business, especially someone attempting to start up on their own (this guy, supposedly, had 10 years in the trade), and I will continue to do so. However, my word of advise is this; research carefully your choice of tradesperson. Look at their previous work, speak to the customers, ask around at other businesses if they know of them and/or their workmanship. Do they have sound premises and equipment suitable for the kind of work they are doing? One of this amateur's reasons for not getting it painted was his compressor crapped out. Yeah, ****ty luck, but sorry, not my problem. I'm paying you to do a job, so whatever you need to do to do that job is your responsibility... hire, buy a new one, fix the old, whatever, I don't need to know!

So now I have my car back in my garage, have spent the last 4 days removing all the rust and making sure that all the other areas are still good, and I now have a new painter who I know can do the job, has everything (including booth) on site and local, and offers attractive rates.

The other issue I'm having with the first attempt guy is getting the materials or my money back out of him. I don't want to have to take him to court as that will just drag it out longer than is necessary, but then sending the boys round may not return desirable results either...

I'm not really into naming and shaming publicly, but i think this one I'll pass to a vote. Should I give his details on here? Probably of no real concern to anyone outside of Christchurch, New Zealand, and to be honest, with a business practice and work ethic like that, he won't be around for long anyway...

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[beanbeanbean]

i had a guy come into my shop today w/ a cel (p420 cat inecfiency, he had a cat back and wbo2 senso)r. wanted me to put a spacer in it to kill the code when i put it in the air i noticed some asshat had just spliced into the stock o2 sensor and ran the signal to an autmeter a/f guage... he was pissed... be carefull who you let work on your car

[Unabomber]

Originally Posted by beanbeanbean

i had a guy come into my shop today w/ a cel (p420 cat inecfiency, he had a cat back and wbo2 senso)r. wanted me to put a spacer in it to kill the code when i put it in the air i noticed some asshat had just spliced into the stock o2 sensor and ran the signal to an autmeter a/f guage... he was pissed... be carefull who you let work on your car

[i_c_the_light]

****ing name the little ****.

[Le Saboteur]

Sorry for your luck dude, but unfortunately, that's a big risk you take when you hire someone to work on your car that has no credentials or previous work to show you.

[TheBaran06]

Originally Posted by Legacy_H6TT

Ok, so the title is a bit of a generalisation... more beware the individual tradesman working from home!

+1, individual working from home is NOT a small business. That's a guy that wishes he owned a REAL small business. Beware of large corps and people working from home

[Bluefoton]

Don't generalize...doesn't Kartboy work from home too?

[Legacy_H6TT]

Originally Posted by Le Saboteur

Sorry for your luck dude, but unfortunately, that's a big risk you take when you hire someone to work on your car that has no credentials or previous work to show you.

True, however its not as if I didn't check him out at least somewhat before giving him the job; I did see some of his work and the background he gave me was realistic, however there is no excuse for taking a customers hard earned, letting their project turn to rust and coming up with pathetic excuses for not doing the work...

Originally Posted by TheBaran06

+1, individual working from home is NOT a small business. That's a guy that wishes he owned a REAL small business. Beware of large corps and people working from home

I disagree with your first comment; I know of many people working from home who constitute a bona fide "small business", myself included. However I do agree with the notion of that person aspiring to own their own premises and building up their company into a successful enterprise. And yes, do be aware of both ends of the scale, but also the middle too, cos not all "businesses" that have decent premises where the boss drives a Merc are above board!

[Paranoid Fabrications]

Originally Posted by Bluefoton

Don't generalize...doesn't Kartboy work from home too?

no, hes got a nice shop with sweet tools

[rkramer]

Originally Posted by Legacy_H6TT

So much for his "Kustom Refinishing..."

I'm assuming that is the name of the business... Long ago learned to never trust a small/home business if the owner can't even spell a key word correctly!

[rxer311]

Originally Posted by rkramer

I'm assuming that is the name of the business... Long ago learned to never trust a small/home business if the owner can't even spell a key word correctly!

[talvai]

Shouldn't assume that everybody is like that. I do side work on computers(not talking about just building computers either), setup servers, networks,etc for business and peoples home and not once have I screwed somebody over and they always come back for future help.

Did you ask for knowledge, certifications, past experience, other customer opinions, ask if he does this only part time, has a job doing this doing the day or go to school for it? If not then you can't hold him entirely at fault since you didn't do homework either. All customer I deal with ask those things and since I have nothing to hide I give them the information(course not going to give other customer complete information only if their willing).

Not trying to be a prick just saying not fair to tell everybody never to trust small business or side work people. In your case yea the guy is a prick, but since your paying him tell him you want it down or you want all the money back, pure in simple, if he refuses then tell him you will get a lawyer since you guys made a verbal agreement(he no work, you no pay simple), usually it will scare people anyways.

[piddster]

Why did you feel the car needed to be partially stripped to bare metal?

[xFLHCx]

Honestly shady businesses need to be reported.

When I was in highschool, I had a beater ford escort that didn't have A/C. I was really into car audio then and had some really nice equipment. I took it to a local small shop my dad suggested to fix the a/c. The next day they call me to come pick up the car because they don't deal with aftermarket head units when dealing with A/C....? I say okay, and leave the lot. Turn on my speakers, and my 350 dollar rainbow component speakers almost blow

I come back asking wtf they did to the headunit, over and over they said they didnt touch it once. After a bit of arguing, i pull out my headunit right there and apparently they switched the sub preout with the component preout, thus sending >50hz to my midbass speakers....

Never went back.

Originally Posted by Bluefoton

Don't generalize...doesn't Kartboy work from home too?

this is the 2nd kartboy joke I've seen today... am i missing something

[Hondaslayer]

Originally Posted by rkramer

I'm assuming that is the name of the business... Long ago learned to never trust a small/home business if the owner can't even spell a key word correctly!

Well then K4RT30Y is screwed!

[CynicX]

Originally Posted by Unabomber

hahaha I spit coffee on my computer screen....

[Legacy_H6TT]

Originally Posted by rkramer

I'm assuming that is the name of the business... Long ago learned to never trust a small/home business if the owner can't even spell a key word correctly!

Lol! But no, not the name of the business, however I do accept alternative spellings of a business name if the results reflect the imagination put into it.

Originally Posted by talvai

Shouldn't assume that everybody is like that. I do side work on computers(not talking about just building computers either), setup servers, networks,etc for business and peoples home and not once have I screwed somebody over and they always come back for future help.

Did you ask for knowledge, certifications, past experience, other customer opinions, ask if he does this only part time, has a job doing this doing the day or go to school for it? If not then you can't hold him entirely at fault since you didn't do homework either. All customer I deal with ask those things and since I have nothing to hide I give them the information(course not going to give other customer complete information only if their willing).

Not trying to be a prick just saying not fair to tell everybody never to trust small business or side work people. In your case yea the guy is a prick, but since your paying him tell him you want it down or you want all the money back, pure in simple, if he refuses then tell him you will get a lawyer since you guys made a verbal agreement(he no work, you no pay simple), usually it will scare people anyways.

Read my post properly... you will see that I'm NOT implying that all small businesses ARE like that, in fact you are reiterating what I said in the first place... be wise and do your research. In my case, I researched as much as I figured was reasonable, as well as having seen some of his previous work.

We also had a written agreement, with receipts for all the cash I had paid him. What has pissed me off now is the fact that the materials he says he bought, he can't find them, and one of the panels was in the box with them, so I'm missing that, and I have to wait to get my money back and then I need to buy more materials... just incredibly unprofessional.

Originally Posted by piddster

Why did you feel the car needed to be partially stripped to bare metal?

Er, to make sure that the body really is as straight as it can be, to remove any previous repairs (of which there was only one), and to provide a perfect base for the refinish. Any restorer knows that...

Originally Posted by Hondaslayer

Well then K4RT30Y is screwed!

Haha!

[STI<EVO]

haha!

[TheBaran06]

Originally Posted by Legacy_H6TT

cos not all "businesses" that have decent premises where the boss drives a Merc are above board!

Only trust the ones where the boss drives a Subaru

[talvai]

Originally Posted by Legacy_H6TT

Lol! But no, not the name of the business, however I do accept alternative spellings of a business name if the results reflect the imagination put into it.



Read my post properly... you will see that I'm NOT implying that all small businesses ARE like that, in fact you are reiterating what I said in the first place... be wise and do your research. In my case, I researched as much as I figured was reasonable, as well as having seen some of his previous work.

We also had a written agreement, with receipts for all the cash I had paid him. What has pissed me off now is the fact that the materials he says he bought, he can't find them, and one of the panels was in the box with them, so I'm missing that, and I have to wait to get my money back and then I need to buy more materials... just incredibly unprofessional.



Er, to make sure that the body really is as straight as it can be, to remove any previous repairs (of which there was only one), and to provide a perfect base for the refinish. Any restorer knows that...



Haha!

Hey you have written agreement even better. Not your problem if he lost materials. You guys settled on a price and that is what it is, no well I lost it so you need to buy it again excuses. Be firm but not too firm as you don't want him to screw you over either.

[goixiz]

I work from home and i have a very small space

[Quakcow]

We just did something like the op, but we were the people hired. Was a 914 restoration/ electric conversion, and the customer just pulled the plug because it was costing him too much. We were just about ready to paint too, would've been beautiful

He had told us to do a quality job and never gave a budget, as well as never contesting the estimates/invoices. I guess his wife didn't like that he had already sunk like 20k into it (he overpaid for the shell and the kit was like 12k) plus the 13k or so he paid us for the work we did (3k or so for materials).

Shame we'll never get to see it painted.

[Legacy_H6TT]

Originally Posted by TheBaran06

Only trust the ones where the boss drives a Subaru

Haha, well he DOES drive a Subaru, so I guess that sentiment is straight out the window lol!

Originally Posted by talvai

Hey you have written agreement even better. Not your problem if he lost materials. You guys settled on a price and that is what it is, no well I lost it so you need to buy it again excuses. Be firm but not too firm as you don't want him to screw you over either.

Oh, always always always get it in writing where a fixed agreement to do work in exchange for cash is involved. True, not my problem however his ineptness is creating problems for me cos I have a car that needs painting and I can't just go out and buy $1500 worth of materials while I wait for him to come up with my refund... To add insult to injury I did a little investigating myself by going to the place where he says he bought the materials from and they only had records of the estimate. When I mentioned this to him his excuse was it was a cash sale. Sorry, but when you deal with a Ford Main Agent, no matter how small the purchase, cash or account, there is ALWAYS an invoice and record of the sale. I offered for him to come clean and threatened to get the cops involved, knowing that doing so would potentially hold matters up when all I want is my money back so I can entrust my project to a competent tradesman. My patience is wearing very thin and yes, I have been firm with him but I keep getting the same response; excuse after excuse and promises to refund my money, yet no fulfillment as yet...

[talvai]

Originally Posted by Legacy_H6TT

Haha, well he DOES drive a Subaru, so I guess that sentiment is straight out the window lol!



Oh, always always always get it in writing where a fixed agreement to do work in exchange for cash is involved. True, not my problem however his ineptness is creating problems for me cos I have a car that needs painting and I can't just go out and buy $1500 worth of materials while I wait for him to come up with my refund... To add insult to injury I did a little investigating myself by going to the place where he says he bought the materials from and they only had records of the estimate. When I mentioned this to him his excuse was it was a cash sale. Sorry, but when you deal with a Ford Main Agent, no matter how small the purchase, cash or account, there is ALWAYS an invoice and record of the sale. I offered for him to come clean and threatened to get the cops involved, knowing that doing so would potentially hold matters up when all I want is my money back so I can entrust my project to a competent tradesman. My patience is wearing very thin and yes, I have been firm with him but I keep getting the same response; excuse after excuse and promises to refund my money, yet no fulfillment as yet...

You my friend are a very patient man then lol. I would stop it there then and just get money. At this point not sure if I would even want him to work on the car. I would be afraid with all the bs his giving you that he probably won't do that good of a job either.

[RawrlySnarly]

Wow, as mentioned, you are very patient. Hopefully he pays up soon enough before it has to get ugly.