Arm Chair Mechanics? Video linked...

[2001stook]

EDIT: Problem solved. Determined to be a loose bolt in the clutch. Clutch has been reinstalled with proper torque specs and confirmed resolved. Hopefully this will help somebody in the future.


About 300-350 miles ago (all daily driving) I installed several new parts on my 2004 STi and had the car professionally tuned at a reputable shop in my area. The parameters that I requested for the tune where "very conservative". The car is a daily driver. The tuner fully heat soaked the intercooler and looked for repeated knock free pulls on the dyno with no timing being pulled. The upgrades are as follows:

Blouch TD05 20g 8cm
Spearco TMIC
Deatschwerks 740cc injectors
APS 70mm intake
AftaMaf and Inlet
Grimmspeed crosspipe, pnp manifold and uppipe
Catted downpipe
Maddad catback
Ixiz A/O Separator
ACT high performance clutch (the basic one)

The car has about 60k on it. I am the original owner. The car was unmodified its entire life. Never raced, never dropped the clutch once, really just a somewhat quick daily driver.

About 150-200 miles after all of this work was done, I noticed a fairly scary sound from what I thought was the engine. This was upon startup and the car was shut down within about a minute when I decided something seemed very wrong. Consulted with my tuner who thought, from my verbal description, that I'd spun a rod bearing. For kicks, I decided to change the oil and do a compression check. Compression was good. Oil looked fine. I had been running Rotella 5w40 with about 1k on it. The oil still looked crystal clear. Anyways, for kicks I restarted the car and was *not* getting the noise any longer.

Drove for another 100-150 daily driving miles without any obvious problems. I did think that I'd heard a subtle whirring sound between slow shifts with the clutch in. Sort of like an engine braking noise. I figured I was over sensitive considering the minor freak out from the initial issue. Well, the issue came back and worse.

The problem does sound kind of like a rod bearing failure. However, there are 2 very odd details that don't make much sense to me. First, the sound seems to change with the clutch in vs. out. I get the noise regardless but you can hear very clearly in the videos that the nature and severity of the sound significantly change. You will also notice towards the end of the second video that I started getting a strange squeaking sound that I had not heard before recording the video. Again, different with the clutch in vs. out. The other strange thing is that a rod bearing should not generally hide itself. Once the bearing is spun it is all over --- at least that was my understanding.

The last detail that I can share is that prior to all of the upgrades, I had done a used oil analysis which came back with somewhat elevated copper values. This was running Valvoline synthetic oil. The values were not alarming enough to be worried (at the time!) but I realize that high copper can be an indication of bearing wear.

Please let me know your thoughts. I am really hoping this is a clutch failure or install issue related to the clutch but my tuner still thinks that it could well be the engine. Thanks for reading through my long explanation and back story.

Here are the youtube links:

Good demonstration of clutch in vs. out sound

YouTube- 2004 Subaru WRX STi with engine, clutch or trans issues

YouTube- 2004 Subaru WRX STi with engine, clutch or trans issues

2nd video with squeaking at the end

YouTube- VID00020

YouTube- VID00020

Edit:
Just added a 3rd video that includes an engine bay recording

YouTube- VID00019

YouTube- VID00019

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[Krang]

The sound in the first video is your heat shields banging agaist eachother, get under your car and tighten them. The sound in the second video is your APS CAI rubbing where it goes into the fender, the way I handled this was I took a very thin piece of rubber and put it between the bracket and the fenderwall.

None of the sounds I heard sounded anything like an internal engine problem. Just noise that happens when you start taking things off/ putting things on your car without tightening everything.

On a side note, if this worries you wait until you get some strut clunking! Il be waiting for that post.

[2001stook]

edit... no longer relevent.

[2001stook]

Originally Posted by Krang

The sound in the first video is your heat shields banging agaist eachother, get under your car and tighten them. The sound in the second video is your APS CAI rubbing where it goes into the fender, the way I handled this was I took a very thin piece of rubber and put it between the bracket and the fenderwall.

None of the sounds I heard sounded anything like an internal engine problem. Just noise that happens when you start taking things off/ putting things on your car without tightening everything.

On a side note, if this worries you wait until you get some strut clunking! Il be waiting for that post.

Hah! I had some strut clunking and binding. That one is old hat - already replaced with koni inserts, wagon strut bodies for camber, and R-Spec springs.

I will absolutely check the heat shields and intake. However, I am still puzzled about how/why the noise would change with the clutch being in or out. Thank you for the tips. This is also VERY loud - seems too loud for just heat shields but this would be FANTASTIC news if you are correct.

[rxer311]

Originally Posted by Krang

The sound in the first video is your heat shields banging agaist eachother, get under your car and tighten them. The sound in the second video is your APS CAI rubbing where it goes into the fender, the way I handled this was I took a very thin piece of rubber and put it between the bracket and the fenderwall.

None of the sounds I heard sounded anything like an internal engine problem. Just noise that happens when you start taking things off/ putting things on your car without tightening everything.

On a side note, if this worries you wait until you get some strut clunking! Il be waiting for that post.

+1

I starting having noises like this recently and it really bothered me so I started checking everything. Turns out it is my uppipe heat shield. Haven't gotten around to fixing it yet though.

I would get in the engine bay and search for any loose heat shielding. That really does sound like your issue.

On a second note I thought I had a bearing issue about a year ago and it turned out to be my SPT turbo heat shield. Any metal rubbing will amplify through your car.

[torinalth]

is it just sound, or is there vibration happening as well with the various noises (more noise more vibration, or is there a change at all?)

I'm somewhat skeptical, does it go away when the car is in gear and moving?

T

[2001stook]

Interesting. Pretty much all of my heat shielding is gone except for on the manifold ends (which was swapped over to the new manifold ends about 3 months ago --- this was done before the rest of the work). Guess that means this will be easy enough to check. The uppipe was replaced and there are no shields. The turbo has no heat shield currently, other than the turbo blanket, since the shield bracket didn't survive.

[2001stook]

Originally Posted by torinalth

is it just sound, or is there vibration happening as well with the various noises (more noise more vibration, or is there a change at all?)

I'm somewhat skeptical, does it go away when the car is in gear and moving?

T

Does NOT go away with the car moving. There isn't any type of terrible vibration but towards the end of filming I did think I was getting some vibration in the floor by the pedals. I didn't really notice it while filming but when this issue reemerged, I'd thought I could feel something in the shifter in second gear pulling a bit beyond the natural resting spot of the shifter. This was while idling with the clutch disengage. A little hard to describe - almost like a wobbling feeling but subtle. I do have an engine bay video as well that I can post... just need to download it if it would be of use.

[jigga]

Hmm.... I'm guessing an issue with your pilot bearing on your clutch? Perhaps it has self destructed in there?

[2001stook]

Just posted up the 3rd video with the engine bay, hood open, etc. Pardon the very zoomed in video, was trying to get a bit closer to the motor for the sound.

[rxer311]

I wish I could be more help. I am really not hearing much else abnormal though. It would be easier to listen in person because there may some sound interference from the video cam.

Another idea is when you remove your heat shielding the motor sounds louder.

I hope you figure it out but I would take it back to your tuner and have him look at it.

[Defiant Autospeed]

Took a VERY brief listen to the vids.


I dont hear ANYTHING that sounds like internal engine problems. It all sounds like thing rubbing/rattling against each other.

But again, this was a very brief listen.

[wrxkyle]

grab a stethoscope from autozone for $10 or so and see fi you can locate the sound in the engine or elswhere. i hate having sounds that make me think i have a spun bearing! it's like subaru engine terrorisim!

and if it was a spun rod bearing wouldn't you find a whole bunch of pretty gold shavings in the oil filter/oil?

i guess throwout bearing maybe? is that in the clutch pack bolted to the engine(always connected regardless of clutch in/out)

suby specialties(renowned suby shop in cali) told me they usually get genuine subaru throwout bearings for their clutch installs because some of the kits had crappy ones included, so maybe man, good luck!

[2001stook]

I've saved my old oil filter and engine oil. I did not see metal shavings in the oil but I have not yet tried running a magnet through it. I have not opened the oil filter yet either.

Regarding the throwout bearing, I haven't done a clutch job myself since my Mitsu Starion days but from what I recall it rides on the transmission shaft behind clutch pressure plate. Usually there is an arm that presses against the throwout bearing, driven by the slave cylinder, that pushes the throwout bearing against the fingers of the pressure plate to disengage the clutch. Clearly when you have the clutch disengaged the throwout bearing is in use and spinning. With the clutch engaged, the throwout bearing could be resting against the pressure plate but I am not sure if that is necessarily the case. Could be wrong here.

Oh and to the best of my knowledge, all parts from the ACT kit were installed including their pilot and throwout bearings. I will verify this with the installer/tuner but that was my understanding.

[Krang]

The vibration gets louder when the clutch is engaged ( clutch out ) because you are adding more rotating mass to the equation thus creating more vibration. I promise that first sound is heat shields. Since you no longer have an uppipe shield, I would check the passengers side manifold shields first, they have always given me trouble. There are two halves to the heat shields on both sides of the manifold so be sure to check the top halves as well.

Throwout bearing was my first guess before I listened to the videos, and it very well might be louder since you upgraded the clutch, but surely not that loud.

[2001stook]

Ok thanks... I will check that out.

[atomicfire]

The first video sounds like your downpipe or uppipe heatshields. Don't forget you also have heatshields on your headers, but I haven't seen those fail like the downpipe or uppipe heatshields yet. Mine broke, so I replaced it with a Cobb heatshield. Not a problem since!

[2001stook]

All of the heatshields are off the car except for the exhaust manifold ends heat shields. Those were removed and replaced when I swapped over to the grimmspeed manifold a few months back. I dont think those would have been touched recently, but I will check that they are secure.

[Firdaddy]

i'd have to guess its somethign to do with the clutch personally.. perhaps you have some bent clutch fingers and the throwout bearing also died and the combo is making the noise... either way , i'd check that... its one of those issues that i'm fairly sure is pretty easy to diagnose if i was physically there, but obviously i'm not.. either way props for posting up the vids, good job..

[bisonjr]

You might also want to slide under the car and make sure the clutch's metal splash guard didn't get accidentally bumped up a little. Its the thin metal plate directly beneath the clutch and you can see the clutch through it. My car had a similar noise and I had to pry the plate with a prybar to get just a little more clearance to shut it up. It also made different noises with the clutch in or out.

[2001stook]

Interesting. Thx for the tip.

[2001stook]

Update: Car is at the shop. They have checked it out a couple of times and they think it might be the timing belt tensioner. They are quoting me about 4 hrs labor to take it apart and check it...

Could the timing belt tensioner cause this type of noise? Car has 63k. Original belt and tensioner from '04. They are also confirming that the noise is intermitent (in fact, after a few minutes of running, it completely went away after it was first towed up to the shop). I would think if the tensioner was shot it would stay shot and noisy. As best I know, there is no evidence of the timing jumping.

[Ranatsu]

that doesn't sound anything like this to me...
This is a rod bearing...

http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn84/cozykat/TXIC/Joeys_Engine/?action=view&current=MAQ01951.flv

http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn84/cozykat/TXIC/Joeys_Engine/?action=view&current=MAQ01951.flv

[2001stook]

Problem solved. Determined to be a loose bolt in the clutch. Clutch has been reinstalled with proper torque specs and confirmed resolved. Hopefully this will help somebody in the future.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[kh15]

Originally Posted by 2001stook

Problem solved. Determined to be a loose bolt in the clutch. Clutch has been reinstalled with proper torque specs and confirmed resolved. Hopefully this will help somebody in the future.

Thanks everyone for your input.

glad you got this fixed! who did the install though? a good shop should have been following specs!