Mechless head unit

[dads_cruizzzer]

I plan on getting a (or two) mechless head unit this coming Black Friday and wanted to know if the experts on here can give some advice on which to get. I will be at a Fry's store for the hunt and hope I will find what you guys suggest.

I guess my questions are:

Is there a brand that took advantage of the free space and put larger amps to put out more watts per channel?

If not, which single DIN would be a good one to get?

Thanks

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[boostdog]

mechless?

[LastResort]

I'm totally lost, what are you looking for? A headunit, or an amplifier?

[neko]

I think he means "mechless" = fixed faceplate/screen etc.

If thats the case, you still really don't have lots of choices if you're going off of Black Friday sales, as they vary so much. More of a get-lucky kinda thing. However, i usually prefer JVC for their decent quality, single-DIN HU's that come with options like front+rear usb, Bluetooth, etc, all for very low prices (easily under $200 brand new). Just got the GF a new R900 for X-mas for her Acura, for example. Think I paid 180shpd.

[dads_cruizzzer]

Mechless head units are the ones without cd players.

[LastResort]

Ahh, in that case:

Originally Posted by dads_cruizzzer

Is there a brand that took advantage of the free space and put larger amps to put out more watts per channel?

Ignore the wattage of headunits: they lie. Reality is that they are all somewhere between 8-12 watts, and you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference in output.

As far as what to get?
Select from: Alpine, Kenwood, Eclipse or Clarion,
Avoid: Dual, Boss, Jensen or Blaupunkt.

[dads_cruizzzer]

Anyone here familiar with the mechless (cd mechanism less) units?
I'm just wondering what they did with all that free space. I have opened up cd head units and know that the cd mechanism takes up what looks like more than half the volume space of the housing. It would just seem to make sense to put larger amps in there.

Thanks for the suggestions btw.

Another question.

I'm not into the big showy amp boxes. What is the smallest good quality amp made for cars?

[adizzle02]

i love the new alpine amps..pretty small in size, under rated on power and affordable

[LastResort]

Originally Posted by dads_cruizzzer

I'm just wondering what they did with all that free space. I have opened up cd head units and know that the cd mechanism takes up what looks like more than half the volume space of the housing. It would just seem to make sense to put larger amps in there.

Parrot has a unit that incorporates a flip down faceplate and has a pocket there for your MP3 player. I think most just leave it empty.

Adding an amplifier would be tough due to other constraints: heat and power availability.

[labcoat]

You need a little Sony ES amp about the size of a pack of smokes. Dont put it in you head unit maybe behind it or behind the dash.

R-

[neko]

yeah, if you need more than headunit power, or want some nice clean power for your quality speakers, you need to be thinking about wiring in a real amp anyway.

And now i am more edumacated. I now know what mechless is...

[Aaron'z 2.5RS]

Originally Posted by dads_cruizzzer

Anyone here familiar with the mechless (cd mechanism less) units?
I'm just wondering what they did with all that free space. I have opened up cd head units and know that the cd mechanism takes up what looks like more than half the volume space of the housing. It would just seem to make sense to put larger amps in there.

Thanks for the suggestions btw.

Another question.

I'm not into the big showy amp boxes. What is the smallest good quality amp made for cars?

There are very few, that I know of (mind you, I don't keep up with iPod tech)

Alpine has a few...

No, they don't provide any more space or power for anything else... They may provide different functionality, but that's nothing more than additions to the CPU...

The amps built into a CD player are roughtly 1"wx3/4"hx3/16"d regardless of brand... (obviously there would be SOME variation to this, but not much, I can assure you) But no, they don't put any more in..

They don't put out much... never have, never will... if it "claims" 50x4 you can bet it's 20x4 at BEST..

[dads_cruizzzer]

Originally Posted by Aaron'z 2.5RS

No, they don't provide any more space or power for anything else... They may provide different functionality, but that's nothing more than additions to the CPU...

The amps built into a CD player are roughtly 1"wx3/4"hx3/16"d regardless of brand... (obviously there would be SOME variation to this, but not much, I can assure you) But no, they don't put any more in..
..

My point is that the whole cd mechanism is removed. This mechanism assembly takes up half the volume of that single DIN. IF I were a head unit designer, I would provide the customer with a higher output head unit - a true 50watt per channel would probably sell like hotcakes. A heat barrier between the amp on top and the sensitive coponents below would solve the heat issue. BUT, I design airplane parts and not audio - so yeah...

[dads_cruizzzer]

This seems to be headed in the right direction:

"Additional power can be had by way of the upcoming headunit power pack, which boosts average power to 50 watts per channel, with an unstated max,..."

http://reviews.cnet.com/in-dash-car-...l?tag=txt;page

[labcoat]

Hey that will work But I think the power pack is a septate piece that does not live in the head unit.

It is small Upgrade your Alpine receiver to 45 watts RMS x 4
* 2-9/16"W x 1-1/2"H x 7-13/16"D

If your interested in the power pack Crutchfield has a video showing how its installed.

Good luck.

R-

[rkramer]

Originally Posted by dads_cruizzzer

My point is that the whole cd mechanism is removed. This mechanism assembly takes up half the volume of that single DIN. IF I were a head unit designer, I would provide the customer with a higher output head unit - a true 50watt per channel would probably sell like hotcakes. A heat barrier between the amp on top and the sensitive coponents below would solve the heat issue. BUT, I design airplane parts and not audio - so yeah...

here is why that would be a horrible idea! Every vehicle on the planet has either a 10 or a 15 amp circuit that powers the radio, and usually a couple other accessories. (There MIGHT be a 20 amp one out there, i've never seen one though) Anyway, if you had a head unit that had a 50 watt true power rating on 4 channels, you are talking at least 15 amps of current just for the amp portion.

Ideally you would run a dedicated circuit from the battery for this monster, but the majority of people installing it wouldn't actually do that. So now you are either going to blow fuses on a regular basis, or some idiot is going to swap in a larger fuse (or a chunk of wire!)

That brings up problem #2. Heat. 50 watts of audio output on 4 channels generates a non-trivial amount of waste heat. Head units are often right next to heating ducts, which makes the problem even worse. If someone managed to actually run that head unit, it would cook itself in a very short time. My current head unit has the typical small internal amps, and STILL needs a fan to cool itself.

[dads_cruizzzer]

Originally Posted by rkramer

here is why that would be a horrible idea! Every vehicle on the planet has either a 10 or a 15 amp circuit that powers the radio, and usually a couple other accessories. (There MIGHT be a 20 amp one out there, i've never seen one though) Anyway, if you had a head unit that had a 50 watt true power rating on 4 channels, you are talking at least 15 amps of current just for the amp portion.

Ideally you would run a dedicated circuit from the battery for this monster, but the majority of people installing it wouldn't actually do that. So now you are either going to blow fuses on a regular basis, or some idiot is going to swap in a larger fuse (or a chunk of wire!)

That brings up problem #2. Heat. 50 watts of audio output on 4 channels generates a non-trivial amount of waste heat. Head units are often right next to heating ducts, which makes the problem even worse. If someone managed to actually run that head unit, it would cook itself in a very short time. My current head unit has the typical small internal amps, and STILL needs a fan to cool itself.

I can't, I can't, I can't...

You gotta think outside the (???) head unit.

Design solutions to these issues are not far fetched. I'll bet we'll see a nice powerful mechless real soon...

Dual has a nice powerful one, but as some of you stated, it's the one to stay away from. It looks like Alpine is the only reliable mechless out there for the time being.

[SeRious10]

Pioneer FTW!! Great headunits and small amps!

[LastResort]

Originally Posted by dads_cruizzzer

I can't, I can't, I can't...

You gotta think outside the (???) head unit.

It's not that we are saying it can't be done, but that it's a very limited market with lots of complications. Alpine actually had a couple of high power headunit with CD players, but the discontinued the model. People that are buying a head unit only are largely uninterested in a high power unit, and more interested in other features.

The dual one is only powerful because the play dirty with specs.

[thedaddyb]

Pioneer did release a radio a few years ago with a more powerful amp. the DEH-P8MP. It was advertised as 60x4 and ended up putting out around 30 watts rms per channel.

You did have to run the constant power to a separate power source that could handle the higher current draw. (usually the 12 volt lead at the ignition harness would suffice)

It never really caught on. I think they only offered the high power line for a year.


Now what I would like to see is a double din unit with a higher power output. Like 40 or 50 watts per channel rms. It has to be do-able. Most of the basic double din units are super light so I bet there is a decent amount of empty space inside the unit.

[rkramer]

Originally Posted by dads_cruizzzer

I can't, I can't, I can't...

You gotta think outside the (???) head unit.

Design solutions to these issues are not far fetched. I'll bet we'll see a nice powerful mechless real soon...

Dual has a nice powerful one, but as some of you stated, it's the one to stay away from. It looks like Alpine is the only reliable mechless out there for the time being.

thinking outside the box only gets you so far, then reality kicks in. No matter what, you still have the heat issue to deal with. Its a very cramped space that is already heated by various sources. Toss in a closed box that puts out alot of heat, and you have a problem.