Brembo brakes - in the wet

[frasertri]

Just got to 1500 miles in my STI, and I love it! But there is one question for those who have been driving theirs longer - do you have inordinately long "no brakes" spells in the wet? It has been raining a lot here for the last few days, and I have to either keep dabbing the brakes every once in a while, or be prepared for "no brakes" for 100' or so. Can be a bit scary if I don't remember...... Seems the pads ought to be keeping the rotors warm enough to keep them dry..... Never had this happen with other cars.

Is this normal? Thought I'd ask you guys before going back to the dealer and asking.

I noticed that there was a thread on the antilocks malfunctioning - but symptoms don't seem to match, except one time in a parking lot (from cold) the brakes refused to do anything for a few revolutions.

Any advice appreciated! Fraser C.

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[cboggess]

I got the same thing you did the other day with the cold. basically it felt like the rotors had iced over.

I have not noticed the brake thing in the rain though, but that's not surprising since I went from a satrun to this. the brakes in the old car sucked, and I just made it a habit to engine brake while the normal brakes warmed up.

[frasertri]

Ah, I feel better now - since you had the same thing happen, Clint! I had a panic moment in the parking lot leaving the office, when I couldn't stop at the stop sign!! It did feel as though they had iced, and I heard a 'cracking' noise like ice breaking when the caliper pistons moved.

I got that 'no brakes' again this morning. Now I'm getting used to it, and noticing when it happens better, it seems to be when the brakes are wet AND cold. once I'm on the highway, and have warmed up the rotors, it seems to be O.K. There was just one morning where all the lights were green, and I made it to the highway without having warmed them, and I had a pucker factor of 9 (on a scale of 10...) when I was really travelling, and got nothing!!

Guess I just need to anticipate, and left foot brake periodically, esp. in the wet.

Cheers,
Fraser C.

[dowroa]

Originally posted by frasertri
Ah, I feel better now - since you had the same thing happen, Clint! I had a panic moment in the parking lot leaving the office, when I couldn't stop at the stop sign!! It did feel as though they had iced, and I heard a 'cracking' noise like ice breaking when the caliper pistons moved.

I got that 'no brakes' again this morning. Now I'm getting used to it, and noticing when it happens better, it seems to be when the brakes are wet AND cold. once I'm on the highway, and have warmed up the rotors, it seems to be O.K. There was just one morning where all the lights were green, and I made it to the highway without having warmed them, and I had a pucker factor of 9 (on a scale of 10...) when I was really travelling, and got nothing!!

Guess I just need to anticipate, and left foot brake periodically, esp. in the wet.

Cheers,
Fraser C.

I am just interested if this is happening "up north" when it is generally colder (read: below freezing) and the night's mist with cold temps (or wet day below freezing) has iced everything, and you are just having to get that ice off.

I have not heard any reports as of yet from anyone in teh south with identical problems to this.

Just curious as the STi is in my 3 year plan .

- dow

[cboggess]

After it happened the first time I have made it a habit to do a brake check before I leave a parking lot.

[red5001]

My brakes seem to do the same thing in the but in colder weather. They get wet and then ice up and don't work for a few seconds until they heat up.

[BOFslime]

This has been an ongoing discussion on sti-buki.

I have yet to expirence this however.

[frasertri]

BOFslime, thanks for the lead. Here is what WhiteSTI posted:
"My brakes are downright scary in the rain.

I have taken a couple of long highway trips recently, and it was raining pretty heavily during both of them. To make a long story short, the brakes are almost non-functional for a few seconds after driving in a downpour. After a few seconds of really hammering the pedal, the brakes start to function again, but it has led to a couple of white knuckle moments.

This problem started (I think) after I swapped to ASA KA3 rims (with snow tires). I don't remember it happening with the stock rims, but I can't remember if I did any highway driving in the rain with those. I'm thinking that the rotors/calipers might be getting wetter with this rim than the stock BBS rims, but this is just an idle theory of mine."

Guess what? I have just put ASA KA3 rims on my STI. Coincidence? I think not. I think that there may be something to WhiteSTI's theory that somehow those rims are exposing the caliper/rotor to more of the water than the BBS rims.

Left foot resting on the brake in the rain required.......

Fraser C.

[BOFslime]

I actually have not driven my car at all on the stock bbs wheels.
Only on Rota SDR's (in bronze, hehe) and blizzak lm-22's

I should test this out in the snow/wet we're having right now.

[jlitch]

been driving stock tires throughout this winter (not in the extremely bad conditions though). Haven't had any problems with brake failure. I've been taking it easy though so not really any aggressive braking. They worked fine in somewhat icy conditions and even after I deep frosted my car trying to wash it on too cold of a day.

[Groove1797]

you might be experiencing problems because the operating temp might be too high on stock pads??? Which is really STUPID

[Blue04Sti]

I can't comment on cold weather performance (Florida) but we get heavy rain - like driving through a waterfall - I have stock wheels and haven't experienced any wet weather braking issues.

[red5001]

It seems to happen in the cold weather and when there is some water on the ground. I think they freeze since there is so much surface area on the caliper and rotor they cool quickly. Plus the wheels(rota sdr) are pretty open so that lets in a lot of water and air. I don't usually have the problem when I have been driving the car for a while only whens its been sitting for a while or when I am playing in a parking lot with lots of snow then they freeze up.

[BAC5.2]

I would be willing to bet that the pad compound is the problem, NOT the effective operating temperature.

Coming from a mountain bike standpoint, riding through water and mud that a car would never see, I had a LOT of problems with pads that were to soft. The increased amount of resin in the pads actually let the pad hydroplane on the rotor for a revoloution or so. VERY unnerving and didn't exactly instill confidence in my braking system. Switching to a sintered metallic pad, I had zero problems. That includes 50+mph smooth hardpack downhill runs. Brakes getting so hot they sizzle any water to touch the rotor and the pads leaving burn marks on the surface.

Those of you who are NOT having the problem (that live up north), are you using stock pads, or aftermarket pads? Those that ARE having problems, same question?

Maybe, in SOA's attempt to bring a wee bit of civility to the STi, they spec'd pads that favor quiet operation over poor-weather performance?

Of course it's just speculation, but it could have something to do with it. Brakes should work no matter what wheels you are using. I would expect Brembo's espically to have this under control. Hell, F1 racers drive in the rain and Brembo spec's the Ferrari team brakes. They certaintly stop just fine. I'd say it's pad compound over wheel design.

I wonder if the 350Z crowd is having the same problem?

[hobbes]

I have experenced the same issue in both the cold with freezing rain (today) and when it has been warmer, with extremely heavy rain. I have run the stock wheels since I got the car, but I switched over to Dunlop M2s for the winter, so its not my tires sliding. I give a good tap to the brake pedal before I actually begin my braking and it seems to give the brakes their grab back. It was downright scary the first time it happened and I wasn't prepared. I'll ask a friend with an EVO and see if he has similar problems.

dan

[rjtigger]

I've had this happen a couple of times. It seems like when it's due to the cold + humidity / mist, once the ice is gone, it doesn't come back. When it's really wet out, it comes back if I don't hit the brakes for a while. This past Friday was the first time the latter happened to me (I, like hobbes, am just outside of Boston, and was in heavy rain / freezing rain.)

I'm running ASA's w/ snows now - I've only got 600 miles on the stock BBS's, and it was somewhat warm and dry the whole time, so I can't comment on them (yet)...

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one - I just wish I knew before, as frasertri put it, I had a "pucker factor of 9" whilst waiting for the brakes to grab...

Oh well, lesson learned...

-rj

[JDM addict]

Seems to me this is all due to the cold weather.

My brakes were always effective when I had the stock pads on. Raining or not.

Now I drive on EBC red pads (track pads, higher temperature range) daily, and it is still always effective. Raining or not.

I am in Southern California though, the temp. here never get below 55 degrees in the winter.

ADDICT

[old blue]

I have experienced the same thing -- no brakes both in the wet
and in snow / slush. With stock wheels. This does NOT appear
to be from a change of wheels.

I'm not impressed by the pedal engagement for the brakes.

Can anyone report on the results after bleeding the brakes?

Has anyone noted a change in this phenomenon with different
pads or rotors?

Any service notices on these calipers from different installations?

Thanks, Mike