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Old 02-23-2004, 12:58 AM   #26
Azjon
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
What ever you say guys... its your money.





Thats.... nevermind I dont know why I waste my time.
Thanks for your giving the information on others opinions on the headers, but it isn't necessary to have all those "lol" faces. And all your negative posts seem to be about the borla/GT headers and not headers in general. They talk about the headers cracking and how they give good high end.....thanks for those links. Guys here are saying headers are pretty good too from their own experiences so i'm pretty convinced to get the headers off my friend. Thanks everyone.
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Old 02-23-2004, 01:02 AM   #27
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See my edit...

And your right. I have seen good things about the GTmoto first gen headers but they dont make thoes anymore. Also you have to think cost when doing a mod. I picked thoes 2 because they are the cheepest. If you pick up a $1400 cusco header(dont forget the $100-200 to tune for the headers) and only get 10 to maybe 20hp and the power band shifted to the right. Is it realy worth it? You could have a new Garret turbo and 50+ hp easy.


Low bang for you buck mods like this are something you do after you have finished everything else and are push the block to the limits and all you want is to get that full 10/10ths out of it.

Also if you excuse the faces he did say my 'opinion is void' with out any factual basis.... he doesnt know whats in my car so he should keep his mouth closed about it.

Last edited by totoherbs; 02-23-2004 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 02-23-2004, 01:32 AM   #28
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Cheapest i've seen the Cusco Headers brand new are $995. The other headers GT/Borla go for $425-$550. I'm getting a CUSCO one for $600. To have a Cusco header for that much i'd think its worth it. Thats just me though. No I wouldnt pay no $1400 for cusco headers or any headers actually.
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Old 02-23-2004, 11:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Azjon
And all your negative posts seem to be about the borla/GT headers and not headers in general. They talk about the headers cracking and how they give good high end.....thanks for those links.
Remember, Borlas had/have problems with RSs, NOT WRXs. Keep Borla headers on your short list. They are $200 cheaper.

Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
Also if you excuse the faces he did say my 'opinion is void' with out any factual basis.... he doesnt know whats in my car so he should keep his mouth closed about it.
Sorry about the other guy. I post a lot here and recognize your username as someone here trying to help. In this thread we didn't really see eye to eye, but I used tact to express my disagreement. I wish other people would learn the same. Thanks for helping NASIOC!
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Old 02-23-2004, 11:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unabomber
Remember, Borlas had/have problems with RSs, NOT WRXs. Keep Borla headers on your short list. They are $200 cheaper.


Sorry about the other guy. I post a lot here and recognize your username as someone here trying to help. In this thread we didn't really see eye to eye, but I used tact to express my disagreement. I wish other people would learn the same. Thanks for helping NASIOC!
I could have worded things better, so its my fault too... it was late and I was tired... But o well. As long as your happy with the car it doesnt matter what others think.
As for Borla I wouldnt trust them, its not like the ver.1 or even 2s where a problem but the ver. 3 even craked...
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Old 02-23-2004, 12:25 PM   #31
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Improper installation can cause pre-load which can cause cracks very quickly....
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Old 02-23-2004, 12:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Scotty
Improper installation can cause pre-load which can cause cracks very quickly....
That would make sense... and since a lot of people with little idea of what they are doing put them on by themself...
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
That would make sense... and since a lot of people with little idea of what they are doing put them on by themself...
I've never installed headers but i've seen them and i'm curious of whats there to do besides unbolt, remove old headers, and then bolt on the new ones. Just asking then i'll decide if i'll install them myself or not.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:04 AM   #34
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The process should involve getting the header square on the head with the nuts hand threaded as tight as you can with just a socket on an extention....the other bolts for the uppipe(depending on the header deseign weather it is one piece or not), just hand tight too. I would tighten the header-uppipe bolts completely, then the header to heads...stepping up the torque to final in 3 steps, alternating sides, and done.
If the turbo is off, then it should be attached after and tightened after the upper uppipe bracket bolts.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:00 AM   #35
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if you ever have an install question...
www.scoobymods.com

Last edited by totoherbs; 02-24-2004 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 02-24-2004, 12:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
See my edit...

And your right. I have seen good things about the GTmoto first gen headers but they dont make thoes anymore. Also you have to think cost when doing a mod. I picked thoes 2 because they are the cheepest. If you pick up a $1400 cusco header(dont forget the $100-200 to tune for the headers) and only get 10 to maybe 20hp and the power band shifted to the right. Is it realy worth it? You could have a new Garret turbo and 50+ hp easy.


Low bang for you buck mods like this are something you do after you have finished everything else and are push the block to the limits and all you want is to get that full 10/10ths out of it.

Also if you excuse the faces he did say my 'opinion is void' with out any factual basis.... he doesnt know whats in my car so he should keep his mouth closed about it.
Sorry if you got your panties in a bunch. Yes I do realize that you are here to help. But the guy is asking header opinions and to sit there and say "Well just because a car pushing 300 hp has a stock header on it means that you don't need one." that is just dumb. And yes if you don't put on any header correctly you will get a crack in the ones that are cheaper. When you mod a car it is also good to have supporting mods. I wouldn't go throw a turbo on my car without making my internals stronger. But making the internals stronger doesn't give you horse power and can cost a lot of money so why should I do it?

See what I have learned here over the years is that you have to figure out who knows what they are doing and who just sits there and hears something and repeats it like it's going out of style. And yes I can say that your opinion is void. You are sitting hear posting about how headers are not worth it when you have not said that you even have a set on there that you are displeased about. Instead you are taking what other people say and they may have no clue in the first place. I'm not sitting hear saying you are dumb or anything. But to go out and make a statement about headers when you don't even have a set on your car is just stupid. No I don't know what is on your car but I know there isn't a header on there because you would have said you had so and so header on there and you were displeased with it. You also woudn't be giving an opinion that they have a stock header on a 300 hp car so you don't need one. So if you had an experience with a header please tell us. I'm sure since you are here to help that will help the thread starter in his choice. If not I'm sure he can do what you're doing and search different threads about headers and gather his own opinion.
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Old 02-24-2004, 02:23 PM   #37
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Sorry but my 'opinion is void'....


All im going to say is that if the hearder is good enough for Rigoli and his builds its good enough for me.

Last edited by totoherbs; 02-24-2004 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 02-24-2004, 03:04 PM   #38
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Well what kind of header do you have? Where are you getting all this information that headers aren't worth the money? Do you know Rigoli personally? Is he your best friend? Do you know why he did that? Just wondering. Cause it just seems you read something and go with it. Not that reading about stuff is bad before you buy it. But to make a broad statement that a header isn't worth it when you have no real life experience with them just doesn't make sense.

See that would be like saying well don't bother putting any type of an exhaust on an Sti because it comes stock with 300 hp. When you put on a cat back you will get s certain amount of hp, when you put on a header you will get a certain amount of hp, when you put on a high flow cat you will get a certain hp. They all add up and it's a verry nice gain. So in the end result you would notice a huge difference.
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Old 03-02-2004, 03:18 PM   #39
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Headers on a small block is not the same as headers on a turbo car. You need maximum heat to get to the turbo. Headers, especiall SS headers cool off quick. Real quick. When they are hot they are great. Stop at a long stop light and they cool off. Step on the gas and "hey, where did my power go". Jet hot helps, but Iron does the best job. Turbos need heat. Period.

I know a guy who put an top mount on and claimed it was awsome. I put one on and went to the Dyno. I was down 10 hp. After tunig I went back up 5 additional. He thought it was performaing well. Placebo. He wanted it to and argued to the bone like.... well, like you guys.

Quote:
If you haven't driven a car without headers and then a car with headers like I have today.....you should really not comment.
How about those of you who have not done Dyno runs before and after install, letting them cool like at a long stop light, should really not comment.

Are headers worth it? I guess tht depends. At the track alot?
SS headers on a small turbo car? Thick jet hot and header tape. Mabye then.

Thake it or leave it. Slap a still bigger turbo and fuel system in and stop whinning about 5 more hp from headers.
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Old 03-03-2004, 02:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by ebeck
Headers on a small block is not the same as headers on a turbo car. You need maximum heat to get to the turbo. Headers, especiall SS headers cool off quick. Real quick. When they are hot they are great. Stop at a long stop light and they cool off. Step on the gas and "hey, where did my power go". Jet hot helps, but Iron does the best job. Turbos need heat. Period.

I know a guy who put an top mount on and claimed it was awsome. I put one on and went to the Dyno. I was down 10 hp. After tunig I went back up 5 additional. He thought it was performaing well. Placebo. He wanted it to and argued to the bone like.... well, like you guys.



How about those of you who have not done Dyno runs before and after install, letting them cool like at a long stop light, should really not comment.

Are headers worth it? I guess tht depends. At the track alot?
SS headers on a small turbo car? Thick jet hot and header tape. Mabye then.

Thake it or leave it. Slap a still bigger turbo and fuel system in and stop whinning about 5 more hp from headers.
Its good to see im not the only one on this side of the topic.
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Old 03-03-2004, 02:45 PM   #41
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....yeah, and people BOUGHT pet rocks, too.....
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:00 PM   #42
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Ashley or (Dynamispeed or LargeOrangeFront) made 260 torque at the wheels on his "stage 2" wrx with stock turbo and intercooler using the GPmoto 4-2-1 equal length header... if you do a search there is a thread with his dyno chart.

After getting it tuned he said that full boost came on sooner with better topend to boot!
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Old 03-10-2004, 01:35 AM   #43
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Originally posted by Anyotherone
Ashley or (Dynamispeed or LargeOrangeFront) made 260 torque at the wheels on his "stage 2" wrx with stock turbo and intercooler using the GPmoto 4-2-1 equal length header... if you do a search there is a thread with his dyno chart.

After getting it tuned he said that full boost came on sooner with better topend to boot!
Ya... no base line before the headers.... so that doesn realy mean much. And he pulled a 209 WHP and 227 lb ft run that day too.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&pagenumber=1
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....yeah, and people BOUGHT pet rocks, too.....
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Old 03-10-2004, 07:37 PM   #44
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Quote:
You throw an aftermarket header on that car and you will notice a huge gain.
Still waiting to see those huge gains. Before and after with a single varable changed. Headers. What is huge by the way. perhaps we need a clarification here. We may all be on the same page.

FP has a clipped TD04 for $700. With stock injectors is a solid 25-30 AWHP. That is a good return. Do it yourself, cheaper than headers.

Deadbolt will do similar.

I just went up 70 AWHP on 91 octane. That is huge. On Dyno-Dynamics mind you. Yes, it was a bigger turbo and accoutrements.

Azjon, take your money slap on a bigger turbo. Headers are sexy but not the place to start to look for hp. Too much other low hanging fruit. Headers are high in the tree. It's your money though. Be sure to get a tune either way.

Good luck Azjon.
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Old 03-11-2004, 12:25 AM   #45
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I think I may just have to do a before/after dyno tuning session with my GPmoto header when it gets here.
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Old 03-11-2004, 06:14 PM   #46
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Arrow Are headers worth it?

On the Camaro I had, yes.
On my RS, yes.
On a ZR-1 Corvette, no.

If you're into modding your car, you're going to eventually get them.

I think they are a great option on the RS. Increased low end, and low throttle drive-abilty. No noticeable power gains. (C'mon, we're talking about a car with 165 bhp.) But, I love the sound...such a nice rumble. It takes the four-banger sound out of the exhaust.

Downside, the Borla Headers are not smog legal in California. So, in about a year, I'll have to swap out the header for the stock manifold, and change the CAI back to stock, in order to get the car smogged.

Which is really lame, but that's the price I pad for manufacturers not making C.A.R.B legal parts.

On the other hand, the Camaro I had, was modded as can be for street use. Every part was CA smog legal, and the car easily passed emissions testing.
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Old 03-12-2004, 07:09 AM   #47
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Originally posted by Anyotherone
I think I may just have to do a before/after dyno tuning session with my GPmoto header when it gets here.
The header shoot out should be done soon....
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Old 03-12-2004, 10:18 AM   #48
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Originally posted by Uncle Scotty
....yeah, and people BOUGHT pet rocks, too.....
And electric superchargers.
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:01 AM   #49
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Sorry but my 'opinion is void'....


All im going to say is that if the hearder is good enough for Rigoli and his builds its good enough for me.
not any more .....
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Old 03-24-2004, 10:56 PM   #50
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Let's see, where to begin. Ok, first off I'll start off by saying that GP moto is local to me and I know the guys there. They're dicks lol, but they do a good job at only copying brands that really do they're homework. With that said I'll give insight in to why I said both of those things. First the VP of GP moto was trying to convince me that their exhaust was better than my Invidia setup, which I couldn't help but laugh at, but back to the other point. The intake they make is a copy of the AVO intake, that's the only intake I would ever replace the stock wrx intake with. secondly, their turbo is a copy of invidia's which is a direct copy of the Syms header. Now, the equal length design with int. uppipe is a very good design, cuts down on leaks, keeps constant flow to the turbo. That being said, you are right that it should be limited to a later stage mod. But, I've seen Jet Hot 2000 coated GP Moto headers make 15-20hp gains on wrx's with TD-04's. I think that GP moto has a good product, they copy the best. In my opinion just about everything Syms or AVO makes is the best quality and best design or comperable to the best.

FWIW,
Joel
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