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Old 03-03-2002, 04:13 PM   #1
Andrew
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Arrow The Official ECU Thread.

I searched for various ECUs and obviously found lots of information but I think it needs to be compiled into one thread. I'm planning on going to an aftermarket ECU and I have basically two choices: Haltech E6K or Link2 (looking for an ECU in their price range). I cannot afford TEC-II or anything like that but I think we should compare everything in this thread. Maybe get some pros/cons as well.

Also, I have an automatic if that matters...
My goals: a good 10psi from my T28, nothing too serious or crazy just a cool little street machine. I would like to start autocrossing once my car is tuned (i dont like to push it until EGTs and everything are well taken care of...well duh ). I would also like to take it to the race track at least once a year. So I dont need a powerful ECU but a modest one that I can play with fuel, ignition, etc. And I'm not totally sure how I'm going to do fueling, i dont think ill need the extra injectors or just get bigger beefier ones.

Also, I'm not a huge motorhead. I have never gone crazy with tuning and have never played with timing before. Thus, I would like a user friendly ECU that will not overwhelm me.

If maybe I missed a thread in my search, can you please direct me to it?
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Old 03-03-2002, 04:20 PM   #2
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The AEM ecu looks like the way to go

It can do anything and everything, and I've seen it going for around $1350 ....
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Old 03-03-2002, 04:40 PM   #3
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I actually have been planning a day where I can sit down and do an ECU comparison dissertation-type report. It's driving me nuts as well, the Haltech E6K was the top contender, now the AEM system is looking pretty interesting, and Andrew@AMR has piqued my interest in a Link 2 setup as well. The major advantage of the Link2 is that it can basically plug in to the stock sensors, whereas the Haltech needs a few either recalibrated (PITA) or swapped, and the AEM... well, who the hell knows, there is very little info out on it. The AEM doesn't have nearly as many correction maps, though, and here in the land of "can't decide what weather we want" it can go from 10F and snowing to 60F and clear in a single day.

The advantage I see to the Haltech is that I have a few locals that have them in their RX7's that have tuned them for a while and know what they're talking about with them, I also like the software very much (available on www.haltech.com ), as intricate as it is, I can understand it pretty easily.

The Link software (available for download on www.carmodifications.com ) is pretty decent, though it's better run at mid resolutions (looks like crap at 1280x1024). Its a bit tougher as you have to enter actual numbers into the entries to tune, but it's pretty self-explanitory once you get into there. The advantage to the system is the auto-tune mode that will actually tweak your map for you once you get it close, though I'm unsure how good it actually works. The program also has a cool 3D graph showing your corrent map as well... just eyecandy, but still nice.

The AEM system, like I said, has fewer correction maps, though I know it will have more of a following considering they are catering to a plug & play market. The software (available from www.aempower.com ) is tough to get into, and it's tough to modify as well considering you HAVE to use the mouse to manipulate most of the graphs. The one interesting thing in there is the individual cylinder fuel and timing trim controls... I'm fairly impressed, though it wouldn't make me buy the ECU as I wouldn't use that - I would tune to the conservative side of full potential anyway.

None of them have plug-in applications for the RS, though. I don't particularly want to hack the crap out of my harness any more then it has been (ITC, voltage clamp, O2 sim...), so that is a big factor for me. I have been considering installing a set of plugs a few feet from the ECU that mate together that would allow me to create an interruption harness, or a complete other harness for an ECU if it controls everything... still thinking about that one... Fortunately I have time to think as I won't have enough money for a while to buy everything I will need. :-/

The ONE thing that is making me particularly interested in the Link2 is that it has knock-based timing control as well. Not sure if the AEM does, but I know the Haltech does not (yet).

I have no opinion of the TEC-II unit, as it is too expensive and replaces far too many sensors for my liking. I could care less about the crank resolution factor. The biggest thing that bothers me about that unit is that you pay all that money and (I've heard) you still need to pay for software upgrades.
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Old 03-03-2002, 04:51 PM   #4
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Thanks for the replies guys. I would really like to hear someone on the Link2's auto-tuning capabilities and how good it is.

Again...all of these work well with automatics right? The TCU takes care of everything anyways correct?
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Old 03-03-2002, 07:10 PM   #5
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About five months ago I was talking to someone at Perrin Subaru, whoever they are, about the Haltech E6-K. They are a licensed dealer so I took their word for everything. The guy I talked to said that if I decide to buy a Haltech I might want to double check since they were optimistic a plug and play version would be out soon. This is all I know, so if someone wants more info then contact these people.

For sure, I want an ECU that is a piggyback, not a stand alone. For some reason I just like having the Subie ECU deal with the AC, etc.. I hardly know anything about this new Link 2 ECU, though it sounds pretty nice from what I have read. Also for me it is important that an ECU retain a great deal of the stock sensors, as switching all of them out is sure to be a nightmare.

Although its not a replacement ECU, lets not forget about the GReddy E-Manage system. I think someone on the board is running right now with some success.

Graham
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Old 03-03-2002, 07:50 PM   #6
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When we discuss aftermarket ECUs and price we need to be sure to include everything that would be needed besides the ECU. For example some have add on modules for everything (Link comes to mind) so what began as in inexpensive ECU ends up being almost as much as other more expensive brands.

I find it interesting when people say the Tec-II is too expensive, then spend $1400 on a wolf/link/etc., $250-$400 on a boost controller, $450 on injectors, $100 on spark plug wires, etc.

The way I look at it by the time you add boost control, aftermarket large injectors, knock control, laptop or handheld unit capabilies to adjust things the price evens itself out pretty well across the board.

I think the primary concern should be who can tune it, and how hard it is too find someone to assist when you run into a problem, rather than price. If you save $200 but the only person who can help you tune is on the other side of the country it isn't worth it in my opinion.

When/if I ever make the plunge to standalone/parallel ECU's it will be based almost 100% on how good the support from the vendor/maufacturer/etc. can help with problems. I know of several peoples who can't get simple issues resolved due to access to tuning gurus. Adding an ECU should make the car more drivable than before, which isn't always the case.

I have no idea what the best system for AFI Imprezas is, so I am not endorsing any one system over others. I think depending on the situation people can be happy with any of them Wolf, Link, MoTec, Tec-II, Haltec, etc.

Just babbling, don't mind me.

Regards,

Aaron

PS when I reread this it sounds like I am advocating the Tec-II, but really I don't know if that would be my first choice...
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Old 03-03-2002, 09:12 PM   #7
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I've used the TEC-II quite extensively and love it. It provided all the capabilities I needed for my 2.5RS-T. I think one of the biggest advantages of the TEC-II is that it comes with a high output direct fire ignition. I can honestly highly recommend this ECU.

I am, however, going to go with the AEM ECU for my Supra. Nick, the AEM ECU uses all the stock sensors. You just pick an input (ie. MAP, MAF, AFM input), tell it the voltage range and whether it's linear or not. If it's not linear, you can program in a custom map (ie. of what 3.5V vs. 4.5V means for that particular sensor). Then you're done and can use the stock sensor. The beauty of it is, you can use *any* sensor you want. The unit doesn't care about whether it's a MAP, MAF, or AFM. There are a TON of progammable inputs and outputs for the unit...I love it :-) Plus, it does come in plug n play for my car.

The AEM ECU does have knock-based timing control as well.

If you look at the AEM ECU, without ever using it, it looks to be an amazing ECU similar to MoTec. Now whether it will actually work as advertised is another matter. I'm keeping my fingers crossed

Jason, the designer, has said that the Supra version is the next to be released, then the 3000GT version, then the WRX version. Don't know the actual timetable for the Mitsu and the Subie though.

The E6K doesn't impress me at all. Perhaps it's because I've never used one, but I don't like the software and it seems underfeatured (ie. no knock-based timing retard).

Sean
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Old 03-03-2002, 10:10 PM   #8
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Ever think of having your stock ECU re-programmed.

Check out the link for Japanese-Automotive in the Group Buy section.

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=154448
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Old 03-03-2002, 10:14 PM   #9
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I'm hoping to get a Haltech under $1k (shouldn't be too hard, shop cost is like $950 for new), I can get an IAC solenoid to be used as a boost controller with the unit (believe it or not! ), and I've got a set of 440's that I bought for $275. That should be all I need for the setup, I will of course spend more doing the wiring and making it all clean, but that is the way it goes and shouldn't be more then a few hundred bucks. There is also a Haltech hack to use the nitrous feature to do knock retarding, maybe a small circuit and a relay to make that work. *shrug*

I agree though, the AEM does look impressive when you're just looking at the program. We shall see what becomes of it all...
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Old 03-04-2002, 12:01 AM   #10
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Nick, where are you getting the Haltech for under 1k?
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Old 03-04-2002, 12:14 AM   #11
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I was just playing aroudn with AEM's software and what I found interesting is it has a whole Menu just for Automatic Tranny controls. which is very nice to see for me.

The AEM software sort of seems overwhelming for me. maybe its sort of hard for me to udnerstand it without it demoing it self. the Link software is a little more simplistic. I would like to see how the haltech feels. The haltech wasnt that bad actually. I thought it was rather easy to get to what I what I wanted to see. of couse...playing with a bunch of numbers that mean nothing and actually tuning it with it connected to your car is completely different. I would like to hear from you guys which you feel is more user friendly, or why you prefer X over Y.

Last edited by Andrew; 03-04-2002 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 03-04-2002, 01:28 AM   #12
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*ping*
I think it's funny how the folks with aftermarket engine management conveniently disappear from the AFI forum

I've already been working on a comparison of all the engine management units that may be useful for the AFI Impreza. I am angling more toward the Haltech, TEC-II, and the new FJO one (http://www.fjoinc.com/automotive). I do have some insight on the Haltech on a turbo RS (duh). There will be a write-up on my website when I hammer out some details and schematics on some things (and when my server decides to stop crashing because of my CGI scripts).

We replaced the stock ECU and out the E6K box under the passenger floorboard (just needed a few spacers to give it some more room). We chopped the OEM harness and the Haltech harness and wired everything from the Haltech right into the stock harness inside the cab. We didn't really want to spend all that time feeding wires through the firewall and wrapping them all up when Subaru did an OK job of that at the factory. You wouldn't believe how simple it was to actually get it installed and running (at least in retrospect). If we knew then what we do now it would have been a breeze.

Issues:
1. The E6K won't work with the CA-spec Imprezas because of the crank trigger. It will work with the odd 6-tooth trigger and cam angle sensor combo.

2. You will need to install the GM intake air sensor somewhere. I tapped it on to the intercooler opposite the BOV; seems like a good place for it, and practical.

3. You will need to find (or make your own) thread adapter for the GM coolant sensor if you want to replace the stock coolant sensor (and not have to tap a new hole in your coolant line). The GM sensor is larger, but if done right you can custom make an adapter to get it on there and working. Or rip the guts out of the GM one and replace the OEM sensor guts with those. Many options available.

4. You will have to modify your stock IAC stepper motor to emulate a GM 4-wire motor. This is FAR easier than it sounds. Trust me, this one gave us a lot of grief, then we went back to basics and realized how simple the solution was.

I haven't done the fine tuning (still running a bit rich and retarded) but I have been able to start her up these past few days with the temps reaching below 0F. I do let it warm up since I don't have the tuning optimized for really cold running, but she does idle up cold. Also I will be using the leftover bypass air control solenoid that mounted on the right front strut tower to act as a boost controller. Pretty cool, huh?

I'll post some more info here tomorrow about the Haltech. If you have any questions shoot 'em at me and I'll try to answer.

~Garrett
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:03 AM   #13
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Andrew - I don't know, but I am looking for a used unit at the same time. Hopefully I can find something, though it's nearly a needle in a haystack type setup. I think AU companies sell them for around $950-ish though, it's just a trick of getting them shipped, etc.

Garrett - The GM air sensor you are talking about is air temp. right?

What exactly is involved with modifying the IAC? Sounds like a couple of wires needed to be split and re-run...

The rest of it sounds like a piece of cake... well, other then cutting & splicing the entire harness together. Still thinking of using my connector idea for that one, I really liked how Apex thought ahead and did the same sort of setup with the ITC.
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:12 AM   #14
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So, of all these ECUs, what ones have a really good "adaptive" feature? You know how the stock ECU remembers when it changes the fuel and timing. If it senses knock, it retards the timing, and keeps it this way for a time. Rather than just sensing knock, chaning the timing, and then just going right back to the regular setup. I guess I'm asking about closed-loop operation.
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:20 AM   #15
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this is taken from this thread: http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=138815

this is to help combine info into this thread... Skidd, you were discussing this with AMR and the Link2 and i think it would be good to quote it for this thread.

Quote:
Skidd: So is the AutoTune feature kinda like the "Adaptive" functionality of the stock ECU? You know how the stock ECU remembers changes it makes to timing and fuel when knock or something is detected. And over time, the stock ECU will revert back to it's base maps. IS that basically what the AutoTune of the LInk does? It's makes daily changes over time in the event of a bad batch of gas, or a radical change in altitude.

AMR MOD: Yes, that is exactly what it does.
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:25 AM   #16
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I would also like to add this little info for the 4EAT folks: The E6K can lockup the torque converter. The AEM has a special menu just for auto trannies. What exactly it does I'm not sure. I didn't find info on AEM's site about it.
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:45 AM   #17
Sean McElderry
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Andrew, the AEM ECU can control all aspects of an automatic transmission. The plug n play version of the unit comes complete with auto tranny support for the particular car. If you have a stick, then the inputs and outputs used for the auto tranny features become programmable inputs and outputs you can use for whatever you wish

Sean
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:49 AM   #18
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thats cool. i just dont know if i relaly need the feature. the 4eat already performs well for me. when you mash the gas it changes the gear and shifts at redline anyways. besides, i always tell it when to shift can it control the line pressure or anything of that nature?
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:51 AM   #19
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Here is some technical information about the AEM unit:

http://www.supraforums.com/showthrea...threadid=21445

The inputs and outputs listed there are for the MKIV Supra, but the IOs for the WRX will be very similar.

Sean
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:54 AM   #20
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No WRX here

thanks for that link though. looks rather nice for the auto tranny. but then again i dont really need to control it, it would just be icing on the cake.
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Old 03-04-2002, 03:16 AM   #21
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Yeah, you'd have to use the universal (race) version of the AEM ECU. If you *did* use the AEM unit to control your tranny, you could probably do some cool things like wire up an analog knob to control front/rear torque bias Or you could program a sport mode and a normal mode, switchable via a button. Or you could use two inputs for manual upshift and manual downshift (tiptronic style ).

That's just me speculating since I haven't used the ECU yet...but I bet all of those could be done.

Sean
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Old 03-04-2002, 03:18 AM   #22
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that would definitely be cool. it could be a little knob with a button next to it to lockup the converter.

do the Race versions cost more than the other version?
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Old 03-04-2002, 11:36 AM   #23
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8 - The Subaru IAC is a 6-wire stepper, or at least it was on my car. Two wires are power and 4 are ground. What we did is disconnect the two constant power leads and used the 4 grounds as the 4-wires that a GM stepper has. Someone posted a website with some good info about stepper motors in general that got us to realize this could be done. We also found a GM stepper motor that is exactly the same size and fit of the stock Subaru motor, but we don't know what the application is an thus don't know where it came from (yet). But yes, the hardest part about the installation is all the cutting and sodering of all the wires under the floorboard. And the air temp sensor is for the intake air charge temp. There is a coolant correction map AND an intake air temp correction map. Was watching the outputs from those sensors and the coolant sits at about 170 on the highway and the intake air charge has been around 10 in the cold weather lately. Correction maps have been working wonders.

I'll have to read into the AEM unit. I don't plan on changing ECUs anytime soon though. The Haltech may not have knock detection (yet) but I think a J&S is still the way to go for that option. This new ECU from FJO looks pretty cool though. 3D mapping is something that would have made tuning just a little bit easier.

Speaking of tuning an AWD load-bearing dyno is suggested for tuning. We road-tuned mine and it wasn't too terribly difficult. You do need someone riding shotgun with the laptop who knows a bit about what's involved in tuning or has Haltech experience.

The Haltech has lots of input/output options, but limited to about 6 IOs to use. Contrary to what some think you don't have to lose AC or cruise when you install a new ECU. The cruise is autonomous and doesn't even need an ECU. The Haltech can do the AC signal intercept if you want, but I'm going to use the AC switch in the car as the master. I'll have to be the one responsible for turning the AC off when I want the power back, not the ECU. There is a simple circuit for an RPM output which I did. Get a trim knob from Haltech to help tune but if you want it connected all the time then make your own because the Haltech one is ugly. I'll be using the boost control feature soon and as soon as I get a better gearset I'll be using the flat shift switch

~Garrett
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Old 03-04-2002, 12:45 PM   #24
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Yes, the race version costs more. I don't know the pricing on it though.

Sean
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Old 03-04-2002, 01:12 PM   #25
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Hey, thanx for that post there Andrew.
As you can tell, one of my biggest concerns is how any aftermarket ECU works in closed-loop mode, and what it does with any adjustments it finds. Everything I've read about the LINK2 and it's "Auto-Tune" feature has been very promising. For most of the other systems, I can't find too much info on what happens in closed-loop mode. Plus... And please correct me if I"m wrong... but doesn't the LINK2 accept a wide band o2 sensor? Thats a pretty big plus for operating in closed-loop mode.
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