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Old 04-03-2002, 10:55 AM   #1
romanom
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Question How many suppliers sell brake pads to Subaru?

Does any one know who supplies Subaru with pads? Bosch, Teves, Akibono (this would explain the cars with bad brakes) or Federal??????


I have a theory that Subaru is using at least 3 different suppliers to get brake pads for the WRX. I used to work for Ford engineering brakes and I know that on high volume items like pads we would use sometime as many as 4 different suppliers for pads. Technically they all meet the same specifications, but every manufacturer does things there own way! And yes pads make a HUGH difference in both performance and feel. Personally, I think the brakes on my wagon are great and I've owned BMW 3 series for the last 6 years.

I think this because it seems that there are three different WRXs running around out there (as far as braking).

Some tests claim great braking, little fade and short distances (I remember reading one article with a stopping distance of 117ft with stock tires). Other tests seem to put the WRX in the merely average category. While a few, like Road & Track, have horrible results.

The oddest one though is Autoweek, one sedan they tested they complained of bad brake fade and excessive stopping distances and on different sedan they where doing distances below 120ft with "firm and nice pedal feel."



Odd thing is the the Japanese OEMs are famous for thier quality control!
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Old 04-03-2002, 12:28 PM   #2
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i don't know how many subaur uses but i know at honda i have seen 2 manufactures...nissin and someone else(something with an f)....we never have brake problems, well provided the customers ever have the car serviced that is.

jeremy
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Old 04-03-2002, 12:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by HndaTch627
i don't know how many subaur uses but i know at honda i have seen 2 manufactures...nissin and someone else(something with an f)....we never have brake problems, well provided the customers ever have the car serviced that is.

jeremy
Honda and Toyota have near perfect quality control though...not sure about Subaru..


f...probably Fedor or Federal.
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Old 04-03-2002, 02:44 PM   #4
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Well I know that Subaru has EBC making pads for them because that is the factory pad for my SVX.
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Old 04-03-2002, 03:55 PM   #5
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Default Pads

Nissan 300 ZX pads fit directly into Subaru 4 pot callipers and the MY02 STi big brake kit uses Nissan Skyline GTR disc rotors (made by brembo). I can only assume there is some sharing of resources between Subaru and Nissan.
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Old 04-03-2002, 04:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by DBAsteve
Nissan 300 ZX pads fit directly into Subaru 4 pot callipers and the MY02 STi big brake kit uses Nissan Skyline GTR disc rotors (made by brembo). I can only assume there is some sharing of resources between Subaru and Nissan.
No co-operation.......they both use the same supplier.
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Old 04-03-2002, 08:27 PM   #7
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Just one more lap around
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Old 04-11-2002, 10:25 AM   #8
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I'm still curious about this...so just one more lap around.
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Old 04-11-2002, 11:06 AM   #9
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I think, in addition to the brake pads, the tires also play a big role in braking performance. Some magazine tests were done with premium summer tires on 17" rims, which basically allow the brakes to work less, since the grip provided by the tires, also help a lot in bringing the car to a stop. With crappy tires with less grip, the brakes have to work overtime to bring the car to a stop, thus the brakes over-heat quicker.

Just a thought.

Later...AH
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Old 04-11-2002, 11:17 AM   #10
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I agree and that would explain it. But, the reviews are inconsistant, some BBS equipped cars do worse than the cars with the stockers.

Now, I now that who, where and when the test is done makes a difference to. And this maybe all there is here.

I'm just thinking out-loud.

Like I said in my experience OEMs tend to use more than one brake pad supplier (or more correctly the brake system supplier does) because one supplier can't meet the volume requirements.

Now, EVERYONE is supposed to meet the specifications, but sometimes the spec can be pretty vague or wide-open.

Just an example of how to do it rihgt; BMW, Porsche will only use one supplier for any specific vehicle package to make sure of consistency. But of course they have low volume requirements.
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Old 04-11-2002, 11:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by romanom
Like I said in my experience OEMs tend to use more than one brake pad supplier (or more correctly the brake system supplier does) because one supplier can't meet the volume requirements.

Now, EVERYONE is supposed to meet the specifications, but sometimes the spec can be pretty vague or wide-open.

Just an example of how to do it rihgt; BMW, Porsche will only use one supplier for any specific vehicle package to make sure of consistency. But of course they have low volume requirements.
It is a good business practice (from from a mass-market manufacturer's perspective) to go for more than one supplier, since that would give them flexibility during the ordering process and are not held to ransom due to vagaries at the supplier's location. For instance, if a strike happens at their supplier's location, then the entire production process comes to a standstill, a possibility of which can be minimised with multiple suppliers, spread out across quite a few locations. Changing a supplier would take time, due to needing product/engineering evaluations etc.

Porsche can afford to use just one supplier, due to their tiny volumes. Also, I believe they work with suppliers like with a partner, unlike the adversarial Customer-client kind of relationship that a lot of the other automakers employ.

But BMW, Mercedes etc. should be having more than one supplier, I would presume, primarily since they manufacture in quite a few other global markets, where their regular suppliers don't always have a presence.

Later...AH
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Old 04-11-2002, 12:36 PM   #12
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I sell parts for a major nationwide parts importer. Our Subaru pads come from Akebono and Sumitomo. Some of our other Japanese pads are supplied by Nissin.


Barry
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Old 04-11-2002, 12:46 PM   #13
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry
I sell parts for a major nationwide parts importer. Our Subaru pads come from Akebono and Sumitomo. Some of our other Japanese pads are supplied by Nissin.


Barry
Akebono! Well that explains the crap reviews. Akebono has a not to good rep among brake engineers (at least not at Ford and Continental-Teves). Then again Japanese suppliers tend to give the home OEMs better stuff (or at least that's the legend).

Sumitomo, is kinda of new here in the US (on US cars that is), so I can't comment on them.
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Old 04-11-2002, 12:52 PM   #14
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Actually the Akebono pad we sell for Subies and other Japanese makes is the new ceramic compound and have been getting quite good reviews from the import shops that have benn using them.
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Old 04-11-2002, 12:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barry
Actually the Akebono pad we sell for Subies and other Japanese makes is the new ceramic compound and have been getting quite good reviews from the import shops that have benn using them.
Maybe they've improved. Just brake guys that have been around awhile remember Akebono pads as "Smores", otherwords Mushy and low mu.

It's just when I hear Akebono pads I think bad. But, I'm not familiar with the exact pad used on the Subaru so I should hold back judgement.


Fords used to burst into flames spontanously! Look at them now!
Wait that's not a good example...........
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Old 04-11-2002, 01:04 PM   #16
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Our Porsche, BMW, and MB pads are supplied by ATE,Pagid, Jurid ,and Textar. All 4 of these suppliers manufacture pads to OE specs depending on the market.
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Old 04-11-2002, 01:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by hunter001


But BMW, Mercedes etc. should be having more than one supplier, I would presume, primarily since they manufacture in quite a few other global markets, where their regular suppliers don't always have a presence.

Later...AH
BMW and others have multiple suppliers. It's that they just try to use one supplier for any specific pacakge.

For instance, they'll use the same for every M3 in the NA market. Or the same for every 330i sold in the UK market, etc.
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Old 04-11-2002, 01:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barry
Our Porsche, BMW, and MB pads are supplied by ATE,Pagid, Jurid ,and Textar. All 4 of these suppliers manufacture pads to OE specs depending on the market.
Pagid does direct sales to the OEMs, see I didn't know that!

Learn something new everyday.
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Old 07-06-2004, 12:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barry
Our Porsche, BMW, and MB pads are supplied by ATE,Pagid, Jurid ,and Textar. All 4 of these suppliers manufacture pads to OE specs depending on the market.
HAHAHA you sound like me at work
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Old 07-06-2004, 12:51 AM   #20
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D PBR D
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Old 07-06-2004, 06:42 AM   #21
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It's also possible/likely that the condition of the braking system in magazine test cars is a factor, as is brake testing procedure.

Some magazines, like Sport Compact Car, get the car going along at something over 60mph, then haul on the brakes, and the radar gun tells the actual 60-0 information. In this kind of test, initial bite and response don't figure in, because the brakes are at their full effect by the time the car dips below 60mph. Other magazines get the car going an indicated 60mph, and then hit the brakes at the 0ft cone. Different results.

Also, the test cars that magazines usually get are thrashed press demo cars, although I don't know how well the brakes are serviced. But pad wear, proper bedding (if really new), and fluid condition could all play a part in magazine test results. You'd think the magazines would be responsible about taking things like that into account, but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't.

-Mike
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Old 07-06-2004, 10:12 AM   #22
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I just pulled off my pads on my 03. The pads lasted 30K miles and had 5mm+ left. The maker was tokiko.
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Old 07-06-2004, 09:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Valhakar
I just pulled off my pads on my 03. The pads lasted 30K miles and had 5mm+ left. The maker was tokiko.
umm the caliper or pad?
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Old 07-07-2004, 07:57 AM   #24
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P A D
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by hunter001
I think, in addition to the brake pads, the tires also play a big role in braking performance. Some magazine tests were done with premium summer tires on 17" rims, which basically allow the brakes to work less, since the grip provided by the tires, also help a lot in bringing the car to a stop. With crappy tires with less grip, the brakes have to work overtime to bring the car to a stop, thus the brakes over-heat quicker.
i don't think this is true.

following your logic to its conclusion, if you had tires with absolutely no grip whatsoever, say falken azenis on glare ice, then the brakes would be working overtime.

actually the inverse is true.. the stickier the tire, the harder the brakes can be applied before traction is lost. in the above azenis on ice scenario, the brakes are actually doing no work whatsoever, and thus are dissipating no energy, and thus no heat.

jm2c
ken
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