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Old 06-03-2002, 06:53 PM   #1
travmn
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Default Subarus that can run FWD and AWD

just curious which model's / year's / transmissions were able to do the quick fuse type change to convert the car from FWD to AWD and back...

i'm mostly interested if any can do that with a manual transmission... i just had some interesting thoughts cross into my mind...
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Old 06-03-2002, 07:03 PM   #2
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I believe you can do it with any year...or at least the new ones. Vishnu converted his car so he could run on the dyno's for his products. I don't know how simple it is to do that though.
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Old 06-03-2002, 07:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pochebum
I believe you can do it with any year...or at least the new ones. Vishnu converted his car so he could run on the dyno's for his products. I don't know how simple it is to do that though.
IIRC correctly shiv used a modified center differential to accomplish that...
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Old 06-03-2002, 08:12 PM   #4
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Manual trannys cannot just pull/add a fuse to convert to fwd or rwd. Cobb converted to rwd in a manual tranny with a welded center diff. Auto trannys can pull/add a fuse in order to defeat the clutch packs and send all the power to the front wheels. I'm not sure if the new wrx auto with the 45-55 power split can do this.

-Chav
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Old 06-04-2002, 08:27 AM   #5
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My 02 RS auto does that...

It should be done when you put the spare tire on...
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Old 06-04-2002, 10:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by balajc
My 02 RS auto does that...

It should be done when you put the spare tire on...
Same with the 00 and 01
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Old 06-12-2002, 08:54 AM   #7
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Here's the breakdown...

4EAT w/o VTD:
Have the FWD Fuse. It can be used for short distances when the temp tire is in place. I you run it like this on a semi-regular basis you will break your tranny. Power split is 80/20 under normal conditions and can go up to 60/40 during slippage, pre-00 4EAT used speed sensors to detect slippage only, post-00 speed, weight and computer pre-emptively splitting power was established. Uses clutch packs to vary torque. When in "1" the ATF line pressure is increased to max pump as well as the clutch fluid pressure, this will give it a faster reaction time according to the factory manuals. Pre-96 4EAT had an initial split of 90/10.

5MT:
No FWD fuse, cannot disable AWD via fuse or easy means. Center diffy is viscous and will vary power. 50/50 initial split with up to 80/20 and 20/80 under slipping conditions.

XT6 5MT:
Same as 5MT but has manually controlled locking center differential that will lock power in at 50/50 no matter what slippage occurs.

4EAT w/VTD:
No FWD Fuse. This has initial split of 45/55 torque and can vary it up to 80/20 and 20/80 during slippage. Uses planetary gears along with clutch packs to vary torque. Also uses speed sensors, weight sensors and computer pre-emptive torque distribution like the 4EAT.

4EAT w/VDC:
Same as VTD but adds: Yaw sensors and use of brakes to stop slippage of individual wheels.

4EAT w/VTD & Sportshifter:
Same as VTD but adds tiptronic like controls for changing gears.

What vehicles have what ATs?
Imprezas/Forester up to 01 had 4EAT w/o weight and Ecu sensors.
Legacy up to 99 had 4EAT w/o weght and ECU sensors.
02 WRX has 4EAT w/VTD
VDC has 4EAT w/VDC
03 Legacy GT has 4EAT w/VTD and Sportshifter
00->03 Legacy and Outbacks have 4EAT w/ weight and ECU sensors
88,89,91 XT6: 4EAT w/o weght and ECU sensors or 5MT w/Locking center diffy.

4EAT non VTD/VDC units have electronically controlled clutch packs (3)
4EAT VTD/VDC units have electronically controlled clutch packs (6) plus a planetary gearset.

Manual Button, and Power Light:

Vehicles with "power" mode light can engage "power" mode when you hit the accelerator quickly, even if you are in the "2" "3" or "D" positions, this will raise your shift points to redline.

Vehicles without the "power" light do the same thing, except there is no light to indicate this.

If you have the "manual" button on your car, then you hit the manual button and place the car in "2" or "3" and the car will be held in that gear regardless of where the 4EAT thinks it should be.

Vehicles w/o the "manual" button, you can start out in 2nd gear by placing the shifter in the "2" slot, this will start you in 2nd gear and bounce you off the rev limiter.

I recently took my '92 SVX to Limreock Park for a track day. I tried several different combinations of gear slections. Finally settled on "2" which kept me in 2nd gear most of the track, when I hit the straightaway, it hit redline and upshifted to 3rd.


Hope this helps.

-mike

Last edited by Paisan; 11-26-2002 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 06-12-2002, 03:37 PM   #8
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why would you??
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Old 06-12-2002, 04:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRXJeep4.0Man
why would you??
If you get a flat and need to run with the donut tire. You can harm the center diffy by running in 4wd mode w/o matching circumference tires.

-mike
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Old 07-01-2002, 08:06 AM   #10
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Nice info...

So say I recieved an engine swap with a 5mt, right now i am fwd, so i have no rear drivetrain.

I see that some have modified the center diff... what are my options for using the awd 5mt as fwd unitl i get the rear drivetrain?

thanks,
MK
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Old 07-01-2002, 04:26 PM   #11
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Thumbs up

Paisan,
Thanks for the breakdown on the various transmissions. Very informative.
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Old 09-17-2002, 08:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mk750
Nice info...

So say I recieved an engine swap with a 5mt, right now i am fwd, so i have no rear drivetrain.

I see that some have modified the center diff... what are my options for using the awd 5mt as fwd unitl i get the rear drivetrain?

thanks,
MK
You could run it with the rear driveshaft disconnected possibly. Not a good idea but possible. I'd keep the FWD tranny in until I got the rear stuff.

-mike
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Old 09-17-2002, 10:43 PM   #13
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paisan, did you just get back from "transmission" school last week? Your summary was very concise and extremely up-to-date.
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Old 09-17-2002, 10:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by paisan


You could run it with the rear driveshaft disconnected possibly. Not a good idea but possible. I'd keep the FWD tranny in until I got the rear stuff.

-mike
Thanks, my plan would be to keep FWD until i could source all the AWD parts. I was trying to find out how much running w/o rear drivetrain would hurt the diffs

MK
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Old 09-17-2002, 11:39 PM   #15
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Our 96 OBS with a 4EAT has the fuse holder. Personally I think it would be cool to install a switch or button to turn off the AWD. Heh heh in the snow... e-brake and FWD = lots O fun in a big parking lot.
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Old 09-26-2002, 09:49 AM   #16
Paisan
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
paisan, did you just get back from "transmission" school last week? Your summary was very concise and extremely up-to-date.
Hee Hee, nah, just been driving subies for a LONG time in my family all with 4EATs.

-mike
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Old 12-14-2003, 02:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flowmastered87GL
Our 96 OBS with a 4EAT has the fuse holder. Personally I think it would be cool to install a switch or button to turn off the AWD. Heh heh in the snow... e-brake and FWD = lots O fun in a big parking lot.
Even better... rig the e-brake sensor's output to a circuit that disables AWD, or a micro-switch in the ebrake's handle like the WRC cars. Too bad you can't do it in my car
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Old 12-14-2003, 02:17 PM   #18
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Default A couple of corrections...

The older legacy 4EAT can be locked into 2nd or 3rd, but the car will always downshift to second gear when starting from a stop or going up a steep hill.

Another thing, Placing the FWD fuse into the 4EAT will not give you 100% power to the front wheels (at least not in the older ones). Your car will still maintain a 90/10 torque split, but the main thing is that the center diff won't lock with the fuse in place. Thus, it may appear to be in FWD because the front tires can spin without sending power to the rear.
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Old 12-14-2003, 08:00 PM   #19
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Thanks for all the good info Paisan. That would be a sticky in the transmission/driveline forum
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Old 12-17-2004, 09:46 AM   #20
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doesnt the sti center diff cut power to rear wheels under e-braking? so couldnt you pull the ebrake very slightly to trigger that?
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Old 12-17-2004, 11:36 AM   #21
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Sounds like someone is looking into a way to manually shift from FWD to 4WD in attempt to save on fuel. FWD on the highway and 4WD for "spirited , winter or mountain driving. I am suprised Subaru hasn't thought of this as driving the rear cannot be helping on fuel economy. Or maybe they have and it's a future option?
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Old 12-17-2004, 11:53 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emnm79
doesnt the sti center diff cut power to rear wheels under e-braking? so couldnt you pull the ebrake very slightly to trigger that?
WRONG your talking about comparing a 6mt to a 5mt, 2 VERY different beasts.
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Old 12-17-2004, 06:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisan
If you get a flat and need to run with the donut tire. You can harm the center diffy by running in 4wd mode w/o matching circumference tires.

-mike
different circumferences? ..... different overall traction? yes.

Last edited by MRF582; 12-17-2004 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 12-17-2004, 11:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team_orion
Sounds like someone is looking into a way to manually shift from FWD to 4WD in attempt to save on fuel. FWD on the highway and 4WD for "spirited , winter or mountain driving. I am suprised Subaru hasn't thought of this as driving the rear cannot be helping on fuel economy. Or maybe they have and it's a future option?
Older Subies had to be manually switched into 4WD from FWD. I can't see Subaru going back to that though; people expect everything to be automatic. (I remember manual chokes on Hondas!)
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Old 12-18-2004, 03:29 AM   #25
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So basically if you have a MT, get AAA auto coverage and have your car towed to the nearest shop for a new tire. Unless of course they dont have the same tire, then you just have to wait.
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