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Old 03-19-2003, 09:51 PM   #1
JDM5LugHatch
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Default Subaru and its dealers can [kiss my behind]... (edit)

I am so pissed right now. I need to vent. Yesterday I took my car into manassas subaru because i have already been to 2 other dealerships that cant help me. I have had an oil leak from my turbo that nobody can seem to find. Thats because they wont take the time to remove the heatshields so they blow me off anyways.

It all started a couple weeks agao when i got my car back from the body shop after my curb incident for those that remember. I got on the highway and at about 65mph I started to get a vibration so when I got home i decided to jack up the car. I wanted to see if anything that i could notice was bent and well I noticed that the under frame ( H frame i think ) was a little bent and that they hadnt replaced it. So i grabbed a light and my digi cam and noticed a couple oil leaks. Yes a couple one from the front of the engine maybe the crank/cam seal and the another one on the drivers side of the engine. So i took pics of everything and called the dealership that monday.

So fast forward to yesterday. I took my car to man******* subaru to get the oil leaks fixed and the frame replaced by insurance. I dropped the car off at 7:30 am and then at 4:30 i get a call from the service writer also the assistant manager. He tells me that they ordered the frame and that they were unable to find the oil leaks. I figured they cleaned them up so they wouldnt have to do any work. So i said how convenient I have pics of the leaks. He asked me to bring the pics in today so lastnight i made copies of the pics one on a cdr and one on 3.5 floppy this way I was sure they would at least have one of these to view the pics.

So I arrive at the dealership bright and early 7:30 since i have to be at work by 9. I see my service writer and he goes and grabs the manager and they start talking and then the y both walk out to the shop and start talking to the 60 year old mechanic they had working on my car. After about 15-20 mins they came in and say well what are you doing next week on the 26th and i am like um why?. They say well we want the subaru rep to look at your car. ***. I am like for oil leaks you need a subaru rep to look at my car because of oil leaks. Then he says well you said we are the third dealership you have been to for this and i explain yes for the turbos oil leak the other 2 are new. He looks at me and says they are? So he goes and grabs the manager again and then they go back out and talk to the mechanic.

The service writer comes back in and says ok we are going to rack your car and we want you to show us the leaks. Fine by me. Anyways about 10 mins later he come and grabs me so i go back to my car and not only is the 60 year old grandpa mechanic under my car but so is the service writer manager and another mechanic. The other mechanic says show me the leaks so I show him exactly where they are. To my surprise they hadnt cleaned them up and they were still there. The mechanic was like ok i see that but then went ito these long ass explanations on like well dampness around a gasket is norma and um the turbo probally isnt leaking oil its the undercaoting. I know what oil smells like. Anyways grandpa looked stupid when i pointed out the invisible oil leaks. He looked pissed and was a dick.

So they say well we want you to come back when the rep is here next wednesday to look at the car. But for the meantime we are going to put dye in your engine so we can find the leaks when you come back. As if they arent clearly visible. So they give me my car back I make the appointment for the 26th and I get outta there as its 8:30 nad i have to be to work at 9 so i just haul ass to work.

Well later i go out to get some lunch and I notice my fender looks funny and I will be damned if there isnt a big ass dent in my fender. So i go look at the other fender and yet another big arse dent in the same place. Apparnetly grandpa was having a hard time getting up after racking my car so he decides to use my cars fender to help his old crippled arse up from the ground. I tell you I hate subaru and their dealerships and the people that dont give a Fuuuckk about other peoples property O.P.P.. Now I know i am going to be in for a fight on wednesday. Oh as if my life isnt bad enough this just adds to my f'ed up life.



~Chris
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Last edited by SkToBe; 03-20-2003 at 03:32 AM.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:10 PM   #2
GOT_WRX
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I think you should take an anger management course.
Seriously, they are trying to find out what it is. About that fender damage, ask them to pay for it.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:17 PM   #3
JDM5LugHatch
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Quote:
I think you should take an anger management course.


I have been dealing with this problem for damn near 7 months. This is ridiculous and what is there to find out? what more proof do they need than oil being clearly visible? I would call that a leak. You disagree? I am sorry if you do. I just dont play these fuuuckking games. This is not a hyundai or a used car that i dont care about. This is a $24000 car which i dunno about you but its a lot of money to me and it is completely stock engine wise that is.
Also a car with only 12,900 miles shouldnt have these kinda problems. I wish I had a honda now. I actually wish it would catch fire and take me with it.


~Chris

Last edited by JDM5LugHatch; 03-19-2003 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by AWDiMPREZARS


I have been dealing with this problem for dman near 7 months. This is ridiculous and what is there to find out what more proof do they need than oil being clearly visible. I would call that a leak. You disagree? I am sorry if you do. I just dont play these ****kkking games. This is not a hyundai or a used car and it is completely stock engine wise.

~Chris
Not every subaru is the same. Sometimes you get lemon engines. Oil leak is an oil leak, but the problem is not to figure out whether it's an oil leak, but where it's from. I think the dealer is doing correct thing by putting dye into your engine to trace it. Give it some time and see how it goes.

Quote:
It all started a couple weeks agao when i got my car back from the body shop after my curb incident for those that remember.
I thought you found the oil leak two weeks ago.

In any rate, calm down and let the manassas subaru do what they want to do to figure this out. If it's been 7 months dealing with the dealerships, you got a serious problem with your dealerships. I'd suggest you call SOA about this.

Swearing on the topic line and cursing at the subaru dealership won't help anything. Why don't you post the pics you have taken in one of the technical forums to see if anyone knows about it? Could help.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:38 PM   #5
JDM5LugHatch
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The leak from the turbo has been since the begining of the summer last year. The oil leaks are contained its not like you cant tell where they are coming from they are completely visible. They are leaking from the gaskets as for the turbos oil leak it is hidden under the heat shield so the only way to find/fix it is to remove the heatshields. The heat shields have stains on them from where the oil is burning. Also, I have complained to subaru before about springfield subaru but it does no good. This is my second subaru my first being a '00 rs which i now wish I had kept and just done an engine swap. These dealers just dont seem to want to help. Maybe subaru takes forever to pay or something I dunno but I am just tired of getting the run around who wants to spend time every day week month whatever it may be running back and for th to the dealership to fix a problem. Its a hassle for me I dont pay for this car so they can see it every day week or month. I bought it to drive not spend its life at a dealership all the time. Maybe you dont agree with my actions or the reasons i am so pissed but this is just one more problem that I have to deal with in my already f'ed up life. And I really cant take this on top of everything else going on right now. I posted here to vent.

~Chris
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:48 PM   #6
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GOT_WRX:


He is simply trying to explain his frustration and anger from the situation which is stretched out over a very lengthy amount of time. I know how it feel because my car has been in the shop for almost 6 weeks . Just either chill out or eat a dick! Suggesting comments about taking anger managment courses, while even being sarcastic, is not nice. Imagine if you had a car problem for 7 months, would you be happy and in a nice mood?
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:55 PM   #7
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oil leaking from the turbo can only be from 3 places. Either the oil feed is leaking (very bad the turbo isn't getting enough oil), the oil return line is leaking (not really a major problem), or the oil seal is leaking (you have a turbo that needs to be rebuilt). Why don't you go out and pull the heatshields off and check out the turbo, then you know whats going on, and its harder for them to mess with you when they can tell you know whats up. The oil feed and return are both on the center section of the turbo opposite of each other. To check the oil seal pull the pipe to the intercooler off and see if there is any oil at all in there, there should not be any, also if the oil seal was blown your car would most likely be smoking. So its probably one of the other 2.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by GOT_WRX
I think you should take an anger management course.
Seriously, they are trying to find out what it is. About that fender damage, ask them to pay for it.
put yourself in his shoes and tell me you wouldnt be upset ...
i think everyone would be, atleast the people who work hard for there cars and not sponsered by mommy and daddy......






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Old 03-19-2003, 11:07 PM   #9
JDM5LugHatch
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slim speedy-

thanks for the insight i figured from the get go it was from the return line. However I dont want to pull the heat shields not unless i am going to install an up pipe and downpipe while i am at it. I honestly shouldnt have to do anything but take it to the people that are supposed to know this car's engine inside and out. I am not a mechanic , mechanically inclined to an extent I am but by no means a mechanic. I just wish this wasnt like pulling teeth everytime i go to the dealer to get work done. I had a hard enough time getting the rotors replaced on the car because the were scored and warped in less than a year. Took 2 dealerships and 4 trips back and forth. I got a lemon or a car built by a still drunk monday morning worker.

~Chris
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:16 PM   #10
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Damn, whats up with these cars. I've never heard of so many problems from such a repetetable(i know its spelled worng) manufacturer. I'm getting worried, I've only heard of a few instances where people on corolla boards had problems and they weren't anywhere near this complicated. I really hope when my car starts falling apart around 10,000 heritage wont let me down. I went to them for simple warranty work on the RS and they were great, no questions asked. BTW, I was under the impression Dealerships were fully reembersed(sp) by SOA for all warranty work. I believe they actually make a little off the work, depending on how speedy they're techs are. So it just seems odd no one wanted to help you. Maybe they know something we dont
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:22 PM   #11
JDM5LugHatch
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i thought so too however a friend of mine told me when he was a tech at honda some mechanics didnt like warranty work becasue they only got half of what is normally paid for the job. I am not sure if subaru is this way or not but if thats the case that could be the reason. They see it as a waste of their time when they can make more doing the same job outta warranty for someone else.


~Chris
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by AWDiMPREZARS
i thought so too however a friend of mine told me when he was a tech at honda some mechanics didnt like warranty work becasue they only got half of what is normally paid for the job. I am not sure if subaru is this way or not but if thats the case that could be the reason. They see it as a waste of their time when they can make more doing the same job outta warranty for someone else.


~Chris
hmm, not saying that your info is incorrect, its just that if it is correct I dont understand why the manufacturer would do this. And how they expect their dealers to honor "their" warranties
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Old 03-20-2003, 06:32 AM   #13
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I gave up on SOA and their dealerships long ago. The Subaru warranty is about as valuable as a paper bag full of fresh dog ****. Also before you ever drop your car off at any shop take some pictures of the car from every angle in case it is damaged when you get it back and they try the standard claim that it was damaged when you brought it in. I've had that experience before and its a bunch of crap. When you take the pics remember to get a paper with that days date on it so they know that the pics were very recent.
I feel sorry for you and you problems with the dealerships. Just be thankful its not a Mitsubishi dealership and warranty. Those things are even worse.
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Old 03-20-2003, 07:21 AM   #14
JDM5LugHatch
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N/A- Thanks and i couldnt agree with more. Normally I will walk around my car before I leave the dealership however I was in such a hurry i didnt. I have had something happen at a dealership before and that is why I normally look . I h8 myself for not looking my car over this time.

el~sharko- I dunno either but like I stated that is from a Honda mechanic so it may not be the same with subaru.

~Chris
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Old 03-20-2003, 07:30 AM   #15
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Rumor has it that the Mitsubishi dealerships are forcing new Evo owners to sign an agreement that they will not mod their cars at all. Yep not one single change or else by signing you agree that they can void your warranty. So basically your agreeing that your warranty will be useless if you do anything including changing tires or brakes. Now thats service with a smile.
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Old 03-20-2003, 07:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by el~sharko
Damn, whats up with these cars. I've never heard of so many problems from such a repetetable(i know its spelled worng) manufacturer. I'm getting worried, I've only heard of a few instances where people on corolla boards had problems and they weren't anywhere near this complicated. I really hope when my car starts falling apart around 10,000 heritage wont let me down. I went to them for simple warranty work on the RS and they were great, no questions asked. BTW, I was under the impression Dealerships were fully reembersed(sp) by SOA for all warranty work. I believe they actually make a little off the work, depending on how speedy they're techs are. So it just seems odd no one wanted to help you. Maybe they know something we dont

It's actually a slanted view. You rarly, if ever see folks posting about what went right with their service. It's almost like being a referee, if no one says anything or they don't know you are there, it's actually a good thing. Not saying there are not going to be issues and problems, but I for one, have had nothing wrong with my car and/or the dealer service/warrenty service. That said, I do not have any alterations to the car as of yet, but as I approach 30k miles, I know I have 6k miles left and then I can start modding. And yes I have had warrenty work done on the car, but they were minor issues (power window drivers side, auto-dimming mirror, and 3 CELs with one replacing the O2 censor). Granted, those are not what is considered true "mechanical" warrenty fixes, however I am confident that if I did have a warrenty requirement the dealer would fix it.

To address AWDiMPREZARS, you have every right to be upset. But as you already have found out, it does no good. However, it's hard not to. The only thing you can do is keep your head about you and keep fighting it. When the SOA rep shows up, make sure you have all your records concerning the oil leak and any other problems you've had. Be cool and calm. Check the web on how to start a Lemon Law claim and follow through with it.

Rob
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Old 03-20-2003, 07:57 AM   #17
JDM5LugHatch
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lilo- I have talked to several people that have had no problems at the dealership then i have talked to people like myself that have had nothing but problems from day one. I stayed cool calm and collective while I was at the dealership and I wasnt a dick. I even was pretty calm when I called him back to tell him about the dents. However I was so pissed it was hard to stay calm. I might take off on wednesday just so I can talk to the subaru rep. Apparently he doesnt come in until around 10 - 10:30 and unfortunately I have to be at work at 9. So maybe it will be worth taking the day off.

~Chris
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Old 03-20-2003, 08:22 AM   #18
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Exclamation Dealers

I used to have a Nissan Frontier that I actually traded in on my WRX. About 3 months, yes only 3 months, after I had it I noted that the bed liner was rubbing really bad. It had actiually rubbed the paint away clear to the metal! So I took it in to the local dealer where I bought it from and they basically blew me off and said tough crap, warranty doesn't cover it. Well that was BS cause I had a toyota with a bedliner that didn't do that and I had it for over 5 years.
So I called Nissan customer service and they said they couldn't help me.
So I got online and filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. I explicitly explained the problem and the next day I got a call from a BBB rep and I explained everything to her as well as emailed her the photos. By law they have to record and report every complaint as well as have to tell the business your complaint is against. Well not even 24 hours later I get a phone call from body shop manager at the nissan dealer to come bring my truck in and they will remove the bedliner and fix my paint. Couple days later I was good to go!

Businesses don't want negative reports on their BBB records that are available for everyone to look up. Maybe after you meet with this rep and you still don't get any results, file a complaint aginst the dealer(s) and Subaru w/ the BBB and I bet something will happen. Hope this helps and good luck!
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Old 03-20-2003, 08:39 AM   #19
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SOA doesn't even acknowledge the BBB when you file a complaint. I tried that already with them.
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Old 03-20-2003, 08:46 AM   #20
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I think at this point the dealer is having the subaru rep look at it because you could claim lemon after taking in three times for the same problem. I don't know much more than that about the lemon law so correct me if I'm wrong. I'd claim a lemon since you get a brand new car and no dents in the fenders too. If you wait a month maybe you'll get an MY04.

The second thing is that the very best mechanics don't and won't work at a dealership. They have their own reputable shops where many people take their cars. I know several race car/mod mechanics that are very very good at what they do. Whenever I have a problem with my cars I take them to this guy first. He doesn't mind taking a look at them for free because I've given him alot of business. So I take my car in he looks at it and diagnoses the problem. This type of mechanic would have figured out your problem in a heartbeat because he actually installs big ass turbos, superchargers, exhaust, the works. He's seen it a thousand times. After, if my car is under warranty I take it to the dealer and tell the service department what exactly is wrong with it. Usually they fix it right away. For comfort I take the car back to my mechanic and he checks it over to make sure the dealer did what they said they'd do and that the problem is actually fixed. I feel this is the only sound way to go about warranty work with a dealer who hires anybody that's a certified mechanic. Look in the jobs section, dealer mechanic jobs are all up and down the page looking for cheap certed mechs. Befriend a good honest experienced mechanic with his own shop.
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Old 03-20-2003, 08:50 AM   #21
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True start a Lemon Law case so you can get rid of the car. If its been this big a pain in the butt already it will only get worse as time goes along and you might find SOA alot less willing to help out later on. Try to force them to take the car back. By the time its finished the new 04s should be out.
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Old 03-20-2003, 12:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by AWDiMPREZARS
i thought so too however a friend of mine told me when he was a tech at honda some mechanics didnt like warranty work becasue they only got half of what is normally paid for the job. I am not sure if subaru is this way or not but if thats the case that could be the reason. They see it as a waste of their time when they can make more doing the same job outta warranty for someone else.


~Chris
I don't know Subaru's policies, but I'd imagine all are about the same. I used to work at a GM dealer, and GM has a book. This book says "X job is Y amount of hours." And the dealer and mechanic get paid Y amount of hours. No matter HOW long it takes. So if it takes them 3 hours for a 4 hour job, money in the bank. If it takes them 6 hours, they just worked 2 hours for 'free.' This is why some don't like to do warranty work. If the customer is paying, they pay all of it, no matter how long it takes. So basically, they can't slack off when they do warranty work.
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Old 03-26-2003, 10:59 PM   #23
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*UPDATE*

Ok once again the plot thickens. I went to the dealership today and what can I say I am not surprised. First off the manager of the service dept refused to fix the fenders they know they put dents into. So he and I got into it and had a few choice words back and forth. Needless to say I am now completely pissed off which will pretty much last several hours after this visit. So anyways no matter how much I faught with him I was getting nowhere he made his decision and I made mine they can lick my balls.

So next I have to deal with the subaru rep. I tell him how completely dissatisfied I am with the service I have recieved and the lack of dealerships trying to help me out with my warranty claims. So anyways once again they rack my car. The rep starts looking under my hood and said who changed the clamps on the intake pipe and I am like huh? He said the car is made in japan and the clamps around the intake pipes dont say usa on them. Ok maybe some dont but mine for damn sure do and they are the stock clamps.

They put the car in the air and he walks under and and looks awfully hard to see if any exhaust bolts have been removed/reinstalled. But they hadnt to his surprise because my car is stock. The rep has the nerve to say well your car is pretty low and that could be a factor. And he keeps looking under my car for the oil leaks. I point them out and he trys to play them off as normal. In my experience oil leaks are not normal no matter if they drop a dime sized amount of oil over a 2 week period or a month. It is an oil leak. When I bought it there werent oil leaks and for $24,000 thats the last thing I want to find especially because I had (not anymore) planned on keeping the car. Oh my life. I think I am cursed.

Back to the subaru rep. He has the nerve to say I am a knitt picker and they have a term for me in england and I inform him I dont care about his term for people like me as I am not from england so if you want to use english terminology then go back to england. I am from the USA so deal with it. I also informed him that he didnt pay $24,000 for the car and that well thats a lot of money to me and if I wanted a car that leaked oil I would ahve bought an old used car. He tells me that they arent going to fix them at this time as they arent bad enough. So what wait until my warranty is up and try to stick me witha hefty bill I think not. Fix my car or better yet buy this POS back from me or something.

Anyways, I look at the notes he is writing and on his paper work he has suspension possible cam seal leak cause. So when I see this I walk away and call a friend get the number for a lawyer here in manassas. I talk to my friend for a bit and then hang up with him call the lawyer and set a 2pm appointment. At this point there is not talking to me they are not going to fix my car so my only alternative is visiting a lawyer. That and the power of the internet. I wasted a day of leave to be denied warranty and several days of time dealing with this mess. I am so pissed words just cant describe how I feel. I ask the rep if they are going to fix my oil leaks and he says not at this time. So I say ok and tell him that I am visiting my lawyer at 2 he said thats fine we have lawyers too. He says I hope you have a good one because we do. I ask him for something in writing on why they will not do the repairs at this time and or for a copy of his notes and he refuses to do so. He tells me that he is not able to because of subarus legal yada yada yada. I say fine then wait until my lawyer hears this.

So at 1:30PM I arrive at the lawyers office fill out some paperwork and wait. he came right out and we went into the consultation room. I explain to him in chronological order what I have been dealing with. So anyways he wants me to get some "REAL" Mechanics to look at my vehicle and give me written statements on what they find and whether its normal or not. He also wants me to get together any and all paperwork on the vehicle and then go from there. We may have a couple obsticles/hurdels but for the most part I think we have a case and will go for lemon law. I will know 100% when I get all the paperwork to him. I wish this was just a bad dream but its not. I dont think I will ever own another subaru and have already talked several people out of buying them. I dont want anyone else to have to deal with the BS I am having too. This has been a nightmare. I feel for anyone else who has been in my shoes. Any help any of you could assist me with on spreading this post would be more than appreciative.

~Chris
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Old 03-27-2003, 05:42 AM   #24
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Maybe its best to video tape the entire thing from the moment you pull into the dealership to when you leave. People are far less likely to be confrontational like that or say BS claims if they know it will be on tape and used later to screw them. That way you don't need his notes or it in writing. Eventually they will put some BS form letter together to be as vague as they can. I hope you win and they have to give you a new car. However sell that new car as soon as you get it cause unless you want to repeat the whole thing with the new car, you might as well get a different brand. I know my next car won't be a Subaru.
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Old 03-27-2003, 07:08 AM   #25
JDM5LugHatch
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I dont want a new one even if they are trying to give it to me. It is so funny you mentioned video tape it. I was out with a friend last night and we were talking about careers and stuff. Told her it would have been nice if I was doing one of those investigative reports things and videotaped the entire experience. I would have made that company grovel at my feet I believe. Oh well, at one time i believed the wrx was one of the best things SOA had ever done. However I am not so sure anymore. I too do not ever see a subaru in my possession again. I have decided to do one of 2 things get an old car and put all I can into it or just get outta the entire sports car scene and get a nice luxury sedan. Whatever it may be I just hope I get outta this car. This sucks though now I need to put it back to stock height and remove the entire stereo system I just basically finished installing.

~Chris
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