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Old 04-28-2003, 10:20 PM   #1
PunksWRX
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Default Car and Driver STi vs. EVO article

Very interesting. In the final ranking they rated the EVO first place and the STi second.

STi highs:

quicker acceleration (straight line) 0-60 4.6 seconds
interior quality
grippy tires
better engine
ride quality

STi lows:

slow steering response
understeer - possibly due to torque-sensing limited slip diff
unsupportive seats
hood and scoop flap in the wind!!!
tire noise

EVO highs:

Steering
handling and balance
seats
braking

EVO lows:

cheap interior
harsh ride
weak low-end power and uneven power delivery

All in all when it comes down to these two cars personal preference is probably the only deciding factor.

Punk
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:24 PM   #2
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Motor Trend sucks.
This is more expected review, and it just reinforces what has already been said. Thank you Car and Driver,

Did they mention how bad the understeer was, say compared to previos model impreza's?
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:24 PM   #3
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what C&D is this from?
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:32 PM   #4
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Yeah these results seem much more typical. Could you scan the article?
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:57 PM   #5
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Just got the magazine today. It's the June issue.

As far as the understeer issue they say "On pavement , the Subaru's bum is resolutely planted. Push the STi reasonably hard into a turn, and the front tires squawk. Now, we are not talking Buick-style understeer here. But despite it's power advantage, the STi trailed the livelier-handling Evolution on twisting roads up and down Palomar Mountain in Southern California and on the Streets of Willow road course. And it didn't matter whether we let the car's computer control the center differential, deciding which axle should get power, or we manually adjusted the power split through the console-mounted thumb wheel. The lap times remained essentailly the same. Understeer is a major, nearly unforgivable, faux pas for this type of car. Some of this, we suspect, is due to the torque-sensing limited-slip differential. It allows you to fire out of the corners, but when the power is off, the front end wants to drift to the outside.".

Punk
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:59 PM   #6
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cool thanks, nothing a little trail braking won't fix. Doesn't sound too bad, probably better than a wrx or gc8 RS.
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:02 PM   #7
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Man, I'm gonna spend like $25 on magazines this month....

my fav. still is Automobile.... (prolly cuz WRX got car of the year )
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by PunksWRX
Some of this, we suspect, is due to the torque-sensing limited-slip differential. It allows you to fire out of the corners, but when the power is off, the front end wants to drift to the outside.".

Punk
They should have just kept the pedal planted to the floor then Seriously I thought thats what the dccd was for, you can power out earlier and keep from understeering, it sounds like they were trying typicall awd throttle lift oversteer.
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:12 PM   #9
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What did they have for 0-60 and 1/4 mile for both cars???
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:16 PM   #10
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Here are the ratings:

STi EVO

Engine 10 8

Transmission 8 9

Brakes 8 9

Handling 8 9

Ride 8 7

Driver comfort 7 8

ergonomics 8 8

Features and amenities 9 7

fit and finish 8 7

styling 8 8

value 8 8

fun to drive 8 10

OVERALL RATING 88 91


Performance Data:

STi EVO

0-60 4.6 5.0

0-100 12.4 13.5

0-130 24.5 28.5

1/4 mile 13.2@103 13.6@101

5-60 street start 5.8 6.7

top gear 30-50 10.9 11.7

top gear 50-70 8.1 8.5

top speed 145 gov. 156 redline

braking 70-0 166' 157'

1.1 mi. course lap time/mph 1:04.34/ 61.5 1:04.18/61.7

0.9 mi. off road lap time/mph 48.89/66.3 48.62/66.6

roadholding 300' pad, g 0.90 0.90

emergency land change maneuver mph 72.5 71.5

Punk
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:18 PM   #11
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Sorry about the way this data posted guys. It didn't look that way when I typed it in. I had everything in a nice table format with straight columns. I guess this bulletin board doesn't like extra spaces!!!

Punk
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:19 PM   #12
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Sounds like a good article..thanks
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:21 PM   #13
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Damn that is a close review. Looks like they did some detailed testing, cant wait to read it. Thanks punks
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:23 PM   #14
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what i find most interesting are how close the lap times are and the skidpad numbers, both lower than had previously been estimated at, and also they're the same.
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:28 PM   #15
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Interesting if you add up all th rating both cars get 98's!! Its a close race
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:31 PM   #16
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I will never forget how they lined up WRX along with M5 as the best sedans, penny for penny..


Quote:
Originally posted by Stickee
Man, I'm gonna spend like $25 on magazines this month....

my fav. still is Automobile.... (prolly cuz WRX got car of the year )
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:33 PM   #17
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So what other cars can beat these 2.
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:46 PM   #18
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z06, new e55amg (thing is crazy fast, 12.5, dayam.) maybe new svt cobra,
Although e55, will not win in a road course.
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:50 PM   #19
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I believe the e55 my surprize you on a road course, but in comparing cars we should keep it under 40k as there are many many cars over 40k that can beat these two.
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:55 PM   #20
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true, but it's a pig, what is it like 4400lbs? Under 40k, nothing stock i'd say, except for svt cobra, about 32k give or take right.
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:03 AM   #21
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Must be a Colorado thing, because I got the June 2003 C&D today too. They made it clear that the Evo wasn't a match for the STi in straight-line performance. However, they did feel the Evo was more comfortable at the limit, and that was enough to give it the edge overall.

Rod Millen did the road and dirt course driving. A few interesting things from the article: they actually liked the ride quality of the STi better, and they liked the STi's interior better. Seats weren't bolstered enough (not a surprise). They didn't mention much about DCCD, except that it didn't do much for them. They mention the STi is governed at 145 mph.

The STi beat the Evo to 130 mph by 4 seconds! The lane change maneuver was high for both, 72.5 for the STi, 71.5 for the Evo. Interestingly, the skidpad results were the same at .9g each. They also mentioned the STi was more stable, but that also hurt it a little in handling department compared to the quicker-feeling Evo.

What gets me is that they mention the slow steering as a low point, but it has a similar (or smaller) ratio and turns lock to lock to many other sports cars (Corvette, 350Z ,911, M3...). The reviewers were really hooked on the quick steering rack of the Evo.

Overall, I came away with the impression that the STi will rule the streets, while on a tight track the Evo has an advantage. Race the Evo from a roll and you'll kill it...5-60 STi = 5.8 seconds and Evo 6.7!

TRS
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by afpdl
I believe the e55 my surprize you on a road course, but in comparing cars we should keep it under 40k as there are many many cars over 40k that can beat these two.
I would say you have to go closer to $50k or $60k before you find cars that can to compare with these two cars - z06 ($53), M3 ($50), US elise (who bloody knows).
Either way, I will love comparing my STi to my uncle's 30th anniv. Camaro and his buddy's 302 Boss mustang and NSX and any other car regardless of price. Go econo box go!
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:10 AM   #23
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I honestly think they didnt use the dccd the way it was meant and they drove it like a typical awd car which it isnt. Im not saying that if they took advantage of the dccd the sti would have one but I dont think they would have complained about understeer as much.
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by afpdl
I honestly think they didnt use the dccd the way it was meant and they drove it like a typical awd car which it isnt. Im not saying that if they took advantage of the dccd the sti would have one but I dont think they would have complained about understeer as much.
I tend to agree. We'll just have to wait until we get our hands on them! They talked about the front diff doing fine under power, but understeering when off the power. Based on what I know about the Sure-trac lsd, that sounds right.

Quote from C&D:

"But there it is: a sprint of 4.6 to 60 mph, 0.4 sec faster than the Mitsubishi and a figure that's going to be hard to achieve in any car near the STi's $31,520 base price."


TRS
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:25 AM   #25
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Remember, though, that STi upped the front anti-roll bar on the USDM STi in size. While they may have done that to compensate for the minor weight difference in the 2.5-litre, it would also have the effect of increasing understeer. They may have decided that in the end, too much throttle-on oversteer would be bad for the majority of their customers. (may be the first time that people install a smaller front arb as a modification).

But then, it does sound like they were lifting in the corners. Bad idea - for both cars. They should have, at worst, used some left-foot braking, or at best learned by now that AWD cars corner best with at least minimal throttle while cornering. That said, it's not like AWD uberbeasts are that common in the states, so there are things that some drivers may have to get used to.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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