Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Service & Maintenance

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-31-2003, 10:01 PM   #1
AK_2002_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10591
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: anch, ak
Vehicle:
2017 Ram 2500
dark blue

Question Synthetic Oil

hey everyone,
my car is comin up on 25,000 Miles, can i still switch to mobil 1 synthetic without any worries?

i heard that synthetic can kill the seals in the motor.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AK_2002_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-31-2003, 10:52 PM   #2
reks
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9567
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Marlboro, MA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT Wagon
Silver

Default

This topic has been brought up many times.
Do a search for other threads.

I believe many people have made the switch without problem.
reks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2003, 04:09 PM   #3
A_Train
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34171
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Its hot here
Vehicle:
2007 G35S 6MT
2008 ML550

Default

Synthetic oil doesn't damage seals, the think mobil 1 has an discussion of this myth on their website
A_Train is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2003, 10:07 PM   #4
InfamousDX
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 25413
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North NJ
Default

Good to go. 1,000 miles old or 25,000.
InfamousDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2003, 11:19 AM   #5
harowerksxcr
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 25751
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Golden, CO
Vehicle:
. 94 Impreza L
97 Outback Sport

Default similar question

I recently purchased a 1997 Impreza Outback Sport with about 90k miles on it. It seems in awsome shape, I've put almost 3000 on it in about a month and a half. Could I switch to Mobil 1 this late in the game? Or would this be a really bad idea?
harowerksxcr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2003, 12:03 PM   #6
Tim Sanderson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6486
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: S.E. wisconsin
Vehicle:
00 Impreza 2.5 RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

There is no bad time to switch to synthetics. As long as you give the engine a "break in" period.
Tim Sanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2003, 12:52 PM   #7
wgb113
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32478
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Glenmoore, PA
Vehicle:
2018 WRX DGM
2017 Forester XT CWP

Default

Switched to Mobile 1 at my second oil change (6,000 miles). No problems at all.

Bill
wgb113 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2003, 01:48 PM   #8
vvk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 6436
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Holland, PA
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS
BDP

Exclamation make sure you understand WHY

I have been a proponent of using synthetic oil for many years. I have used it myself almost exclusively. My current two Subarus (and the two I don't have anymore) have been on Mobil 1 since birth. However, recently I started having some doubts about the benefits of using synthetic motor oil in Subarus. Subaru engineers have been advising agains using synthetics in Subarus for years. There was a TSB that warned against using synthetic oil. Recently they grudgingly retracted their position on synthetics. There is a new TSB that permits their use, provided that change intervals are kept.

I decided to try non-synthetic oil about a year ago. I started with my 1994 Impreza. I put in Havoline 10W-40 last summer and was extremely impressed by how much smoother and quieter the engine felt. I still had some Mobil 1 to use up, so I ran another interval with that over the last winter. Then I took a sample and got it analyzed. This summer I filled up with Motorcraft 10W-40. After a 5 month 3600 mile interval I sent in another sample for analysis. The results blew me away. The non-synthetic oil had lower wear metals!

At this point I tried non-synthetic oil in my 1998 2.5RS. Once again, wear metals that showed up in oil analysis were much lower compared to the previous sample of Mobil 1! Subjectively, the engine felt much smoother and quieter on the Castrol 10W-30 than on the Mobil 1 5W-30 I used since buying the car new. Lead number on oil analysis report went from 9 to 0! The sample on Motorcraft 10W-40 from my other Impreza showed 0 lead as well, which is as good as it gets. All other wear metals were similarly low. Chrome was particularly bothersome for me, since it points to piston ring wear. It too went to zero with non-synthetic motor oil. Excellent!

At this point I am convinced that Subaru engines like non-synthetic motor oil. If you want longer drain intervals or live in very cold climate, then you may actually benefit from synthetic oil. If you follow the owner's manual and change at 3750/7500 miles depending on your useage -- I strongly suggest that you stick with good brand-name non-synthetic oil. Your engine will last longer!
vvk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2003, 09:43 PM   #9
AK_2002_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10591
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: anch, ak
Vehicle:
2017 Ram 2500
dark blue

Default

i change my oil every 3 months or 3000 miles. it gets pretty cold up here during winter here in anchorage, ak. would i benefit from synthetic oil?
AK_2002_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2003, 10:54 PM   #10
whitet777
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 9378
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Kohler, WI
Vehicle:
1991 MR2
Red

Default

I had Mobil engineers come into work to talk to us about another purpose, but of course I drilled them about Mobil 1. The one engineer has a Legacy and he uses it exclusively. He says there is no bad time to switch to synthetic, it is a wives tale. Also, he says new motors have no break in period. That was only old engines. In fact, Z06's and Porsche's come with Mobil 1 from the factory floor.

I have a hard time believing that a particular engine could dislike synthetic. All synthetic oil is is uniformly short hydrocarbon chains formed from Ethane gas. Because it is an engineered oil, quality control is much better on the purity and uniformity with hydrocarbon chains giving better viscosity and lubrication properties.

The one thing VVK failed to mention is how long his oil sample intervals were from using synthetic. To be fair, oil sample rates should be the same for synthetic as natural oils for comparison sake.
whitet777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2003, 12:16 AM   #11
vvk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 6436
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Holland, PA
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS
BDP

Default clarification

Quote:
Originally posted by whitet777
The one thing VVK failed to mention is how long his oil sample intervals were from using synthetic. To be fair, oil sample rates should be the same for synthetic as natural oils for comparison sake.
Yes, but isn't the point of synthetic oil with high TBN to extend drain intervals?

Anyway, the interval on the 1994 Impreza was virtually the same on synthetic and non-synthetic. The interval on 1998 Impreza was 6500 miles on Mobil 1 and 4000 miles on Castrol GTX.
vvk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2003, 10:14 AM   #12
whitet777
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 9378
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Kohler, WI
Vehicle:
1991 MR2
Red

Default

VVK, thanks for the clarification. However, I bet I could find numerous studies showing the exact opposite results that you found. Studies and tests are usually worthless because controlling the variables is too difficult, especially with differing driving conditions. Maybe you drove harder during one test than the other. Maybe the engine was newer for one oil than the other. Maybe it was winter during one test and summer during another. See what I mean?

I am intrigued by the Subaru engine differences you spoke of. Do you know specifically what is so different about a Subaru engine than a Vette or Porsche engine? And don't say about 300Hp.
whitet777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2003, 03:38 PM   #13
wgb113
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32478
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Glenmoore, PA
Vehicle:
2018 WRX DGM
2017 Forester XT CWP

Default

Even the MINI Cooper comes from the factory with Mobile 1 in the engine. Some dolt tried to say the engines were broken-in ahead of time but an email to MINI/BMW killed that idea.

I'm also curious as to why the boxer engine wouldn't like synthetic but other types of engines are fine with it.

Bill
wgb113 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2003, 03:56 PM   #14
whitet777
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 9378
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Kohler, WI
Vehicle:
1991 MR2
Red

Default

Well, I wouldn't say Boxer engines, because Porsche uses it and most of their engines are Boxer.
whitet777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2003, 02:28 AM   #15
esteve
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28716
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle:
2006 STI

Default

vvk,

How can that be? Here I am using Mobil 1 with my mind at ease and I stumble across your results...thanks a lot! With the advantages of synthetic, I can't believe the conventional oil did better.

I wonder in a turbocharged engine how conventional oil would do against Mobil 1. Maybe under more extreme conditions is where the synthetic starts to show its advantages.

I've been a happy Mobil 1 user for many years and plan to keep using it but this was interesting to say the least!
esteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2003, 01:18 PM   #16
vvk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 6436
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Holland, PA
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS
BDP

Unhappy I feel your pain

Quote:
Originally posted by esteve
How can that be? Here I am using Mobil 1 with my mind at ease and I stumble across your results...thanks a lot! With the advantages of synthetic, I can't believe the conventional oil did better.
Frankly, I was shocked when I saw the analysis reports. I am in exactly the same boat as you. I still believe that synthetics are the way to go, but apparently not in all engines. Subaru engines are really different for some reason.

I have been researching this issue for some time. One very conclusive report that I came across is a study done by Dutch Subaru enthusiasts:

http://www.extreme-machines.nl/downl...lierapport.doc

You can save this one as HTML and then use Google or similar service to translate into English. The gist of the study is summarized as: "synthetic 0W-40 oils increased wear by 70% compared to a reference group of non-synthetic 10W-40 oils."

This might sound like an improper comparison, but you have to remember that most synthetics sold in Europe are either 0W-40 or 5W-40 and we are talking northern Europe here, so 0W-40 oils would be high on their list. The 10W-40 dino oils sold in Europe are actually much inferior to US-market products because they are very unpopular and use old Group I base technology that is no longer used in the US.

Some other sources that I have seen point out that non-synthetic oils have some important advantages over synthetics. For example, they provide superior solubility for anti-wear additive packages. Another source claims that non-synthetic base oil provides reduced friction compared to PAO. Synthetic oils are said to be more chemically aggressive, which is bad for leaky engines. On and on...

I was using Mobil 1 for years in my old SAAB. It used to have some major oil leaks and I was able to reduce these leaks dramatically by simply switching from Mobil 1 to Mobil Drive Clean.

I am definitely noticing much smoother and quieter engine running on Castrol GTX versus Mobil 1. The difference is dramatic. This subjective feeling was confirmed in no uncertain terms by my recent oil analysis. Getting zero lead is a huge deal, especially compared to relatively high lead numbers I had been getting in the past.

I do believe that when a car manufacturer specifically recommends synthetic oil, like most European makes do, synthetic oil does have major benefits. I still use full synthetic in my new SAAB. I have been using German-made Lubro Moly and my oil analysis results are excellent with 10k mile change intervals.
vvk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2003, 06:19 PM   #17
shinjyo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 25808
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Pasadena, CA
Vehicle:
2003 Impreza RS
STI---->Prodrive

Default

I got my car using synthetic oil when 10000 miles
Everything feels better, I also heard what u worry about, but it seems that my engine still running excellent for 10000 miles more.
and I heard that people use Mobil 1 fully synthetic is for Turbo Charge Engine, go ahead and change it!
u can also consider Castrol Fully Synthetic(I'm using right now)
shinjyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2003, 10:08 PM   #18
DrD
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 22412
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2024 Legacy Sport

Default

You'll be fine switching over pretty much whenever if the engine is in good shape - the only thing which makes switching over is if you have an older engine which already leaks oil - in that case, synthetics tend to clean out the leak (which is usually partially plugged with crud) and leak faster.

I swapped my last car over at 86k miles, and got rid of it at a little under 190k miles with no oil related issues whatsoever (no burning, no leaking, etc.)

Switched my WRX over to synthetic at 3k miles (Mobil 1)

The studies I have seen are all interesting, but they seem to be missing the control (a mobil 1 blank sample with 0 miles on it) - perhaps the synthetic is higher in various materials from the get go due to the additive package or production methods used for it... a control may have been mentioned in the dutch report, but since I don't read dutch, all I could go with was the data chart... also, I don't know what the lot-to-lot variability is in those materials - the data might all be in the noise of the spec...
DrD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2003, 05:43 PM   #19
SubiescottyWRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 47974
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sterling, VA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by wgb113
Switched to Mobile 1 at my second oil change (6,000 miles). No problems at all.

Bill
I too did this and am now reaching 23000
Its fine!
SubiescottyWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2003, 08:52 PM   #20
Recon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 39364
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Hanover, Indiana
Vehicle:
2004 Impreza Wrx
Rally Blue

Default

I have certainly had doubts also regarding synthetics vrs standard conventional oils. I also used Havoline in a Mustang Gt I recently owned. It ran very smooth and I had no problems what so ever. I CHANGED OVER TO SYNTHETIC after about 4 months of owning the car due to the major hype ( less wear, friction, etc.) To be honest with you aftter 1 year I started having motor troubles , most likely not the oil but ? My parents have used Havoline for ever in their cars their 74 dodge has 300,00 + on it and has never been torn down. I have alway been told that once you go to Synthetic you cant change back is this true ? I started using mobil 1 10 w 30 in my wrx after the 1st oil change. It feels a bit more sluggish to be honest with you since I changed. I also here a slight tick sound when it is cold ( which I never heard with the original oil from the Factory) I feel that if it is safe, I will probably change back to Havoline ( It is definately the best oil I have ever used. My brother uses Royal Purple and swears by it but hell where do you find it in hick vill U.S.A.
Any help would be appreciated
Recon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2003, 09:48 PM   #21
whitet777
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 9378
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Kohler, WI
Vehicle:
1991 MR2
Red

Default

You should be able to switch back to Havoline with no problems.
whitet777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2003, 10:26 PM   #22
esteve
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28716
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle:
2006 STI

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Recon
I have certainly had doubts also regarding synthetics vrs standard conventional oils. I also used Havoline in a Mustang Gt I recently owned. It ran very smooth and I had no problems what so ever. I CHANGED OVER TO SYNTHETIC after about 4 months of owning the car due to the major hype ( less wear, friction, etc.) To be honest with you aftter 1 year I started having motor troubles , most likely not the oil but ? My parents have used Havoline for ever in their cars their 74 dodge has 300,00 + on it and has never been torn down. I have alway been told that once you go to Synthetic you cant change back is this true ? I started using mobil 1 10 w 30 in my wrx after the 1st oil change. It feels a bit more sluggish to be honest with you since I changed. I also here a slight tick sound when it is cold ( which I never heard with the original oil from the Factory) I feel that if it is safe, I will probably change back to Havoline ( It is definately the best oil I have ever used. My brother uses Royal Purple and swears by it but hell where do you find it in hick vill U.S.A.
Any help would be appreciated
Did you let your GT break-in before switching to synthetic? There's a lot of contradictory info out there with some companies claiming it's ok to use synthetic right away and others saying otherwise.

I emailed SOA a while back regarding synthetics and they gave me a nice, detailed reply which my wife deleted. I'm almost certain they said whatever oil I choose, to stick with it and not deviate from it...so if I run synthetic only use synthetic, and vice-versa.

You should send SOA an email regarding your questions.
esteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2003, 10:55 PM   #23
DrD
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 22412
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2024 Legacy Sport

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Recon
My brother uses Royal Purple and swears by it but hell where do you find it in hick vill U.S.A.
Any help would be appreciated
A number of chain parts shops are carrying it now - I know NAPA does, and I think I saw it in Autozone - might be worth a look if one of those are in the area.
DrD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2003, 10:42 AM   #24
wgb113
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32478
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Glenmoore, PA
Vehicle:
2018 WRX DGM
2017 Forester XT CWP

Default

Guys, it says clearly in the manual to use whatever kind of oil you want as long as it's 10w30 and SAE? recommended.

I switched to Mobile 1 at my second oil change and have had absolutely ZERO problems.

Bill
wgb113 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2003, 03:54 PM   #25
heffergm
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34672
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northern VA
Vehicle:
2003 wrx
WR Blue Pearl

Default

Thank you! Finally, someone else who actually read the damn manual, where it quite clearly says that you can use any oil (synthetic or otherwise) provided it meets the SAE approval specified.
heffergm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
non synthetic to synthetic oil? dontgiva Service & Maintenance 6 10-12-2007 01:58 PM
Switching Between Synthetic and Non-Synthetic Oil Slowsoul General Community 16 07-25-2007 08:21 PM
Synthetic vs Non-Synthetic Oil For Turbo Installation Cusson Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 12 12-31-2006 11:31 PM
Can you mix synthetic oil with non synthetic? SubaruImpreza_power Newbies & FAQs 6 10-31-2003 08:56 PM
synthetic oil = synthetic oil filter? kid22 Technical Forum Archive 4 09-16-2000 08:04 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.