whatever happened to the HID ban scare?

[BOFslime]

Anyone know what happened with the HID ban scare in the US?
are HID's banned. has anyone really received a clear answer on this subject.

to my understanding it was just enforcement of an already existing law, that stopped the conversion of reflection halogen lights to HID as it would throw out light at coming traffic.

McCulloch has this listed on there page:

http://www.mccullochhid.com/dot.htm

my question open question is, has the FUD spread so much that even manufactures are afraid to sell kits, simply because people do illegal things with them?

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[noblebc]

To answer your question, Yes. It is very expensive to create a new kit for every vehicle since creating a kit involves a complete redesign of the reflector and the housing it sits in. Then to manufacture with new tooling is even more expensive. With all of this expense the price for the system is really high and the volume of people that want this and can afford this is low. Manufactures would sell the kits if the reflector assemblies were cheaper to make changes to.

It is illegal to sell HID systems that are a direct replacement for halogen lamps without any reflector change.

I hope this answers your question

[BOFslime]

Doesn't this hurt those that have the housings with proper alignment for HID? That you can purchase the housing, but then not the HID conversion kit to install into the housing?

The way the manufactures come off, and what is perceived by Joe Public is that all aftermarket HID's are illegal.

[noblebc]

The system should be sold together. The company that is selling the assembly should also have the lamps and ballasts available. At least this is how the Xenarc kits from Sylvania are sold.

[Basshead]

you - "i'm buying them for off road use, i rally my car"
them - "ok that'll be $500, they'll be at your door in 3 days"

[Hondakilla]

So let me get this right....me buying the Phillips or McCulloch HID kit for my 01 Impreza RS, putting it on and driving around normally would be Illegal?

[Force[FED]]

If you read the technical mumbo-jumbo, that appears to be exactly true. But remember, most of the mods you read on this board (catless uppipes, catless exhaust, heck, even REMOVING working OEM catalytic converters, loud exhausts, blah blah blah) is illegal.

I am by no means TELLING you to break the law.

Kev

[noblebc]

Some these are illegal just to be helpful to others like excessive noise. HID lighting that is directly replacing Halogen without changing the reflector is harmful to others. US automotive reflectors are designed to put a certain amount of light up off of the road so that people can see street signs. If you replace a halogen system designed for that with an HID Light source, now you are putting three times or more of the legal amount of light off the road and in oncoming traffic's eye sight. This is like leaving your high beams on all the time, dangerous to everyone else.

Companies will of course sell them too you and then you will take the blame because everythign says "for off road use only". Think of other drivers when adding something like this that is obviously illegal and dangerous

[Hondakilla]

Are there any HID kits for a GC8 that do change the reflector or have some sort of anti-glare thing?

[Hondakilla]

Are there any HID kits for a GC8 that do change the reflector or have some sort of anti-glare thing? Because i would really love to have HID

[nhluhr]

It's important to note that if you have a projector headlight based on Halogen bulbs (such as the non-HID sti headlights or the Morrettes) they are NOT properly suited for HID retrofit. it doesn't matter if they are projectors or reflectors. The difference between systems made for Halogen and systems made for HID is fundamentally different because of the way the bulbs manifest their light.

In a halogen bulb, all your light is coming from a single hot filament while in an HID bulb, the light is coming from a relatively less concentrated area (and a lot more light, to boot) so the reflector/projector housings are going to be throwing a lot of extra unintended light at oncoming drivers.

If you DO insist on installing HID systems, PLEASE for the sake of other drivers, aim the lights down a little more than you would with Halogens.

[Mishmosh]

Recently, I have had MULTIPLE instances where I thought for sure that a HID system must have been aftermarket and misaimed--the glare was that bad and made me want to flash the oncoming driver. A few times the car was coming up from behind and I felt the glare bad. It turns out that each of these was a new 2004 Maxima. What is the deal with the hid leveling in these cars? The glare is much worse than Audi, BMW, Acura, etc. Anyone share a similar opinion?

BTW, I have a 1995 maxima so it's not like I'm a hater...

[Subie2.5RS2003]

i dont know the law in all states but in NYS if you do get caught with HIDs its an equipment problem just like having a brake light out go to the police station in 24hours after the ticket with your halogen bulbs in, show them they;re in, get the ticket removed and then install your HIDs again

BTW its pretty hard for cops to detect HIDs, i mean they have to open your hood and look for the ballast, the ignitor etc etc

[Yotsuya]

Originally posted by Mishmosh
Recently, I have had MULTIPLE instances where I thought for sure that a HID system must have been aftermarket and misaimed--the glare was that bad and made me want to flash the oncoming driver. A few times the car was coming up from behind and I felt the glare bad. It turns out that each of these was a new 2004 Maxima. What is the deal with the hid leveling in these cars?

To my knowledge, US HID equipped cars don't have to have levelers, so to save $$ few do. Also remember production lights are tested only after they are released into production (according to Stern's site), and the standards are very sketchy and leave lots of loopholes while creating some required problem spots.

The reason HIDs will not work in projector or reflector light housigs has to do with the optics. Remember in sixth grade when you had a light box and had to set up a series of mirrors to let the beam shine over an X the teacher drew on your desk? Think of what would happen to you light if the box creating the light was changed; it would throw off the beam pattern and your mirrors would be putting light in the wrong places.

HID light comes from an electric arc of different dimensions that that of the wolfram filament in a halogen bulb. Changing shape of the light source will cause the reflectors in your headlamp to put light into the wrong places. PIAA did this with their superwhites, very slightly changing the filament dimensions to work with reflectors to put more light in certain areas (while starving others) and makig all sorts of claims about their bulbs being brighter.

This being the case, ther is no HID retrofit for a GC8 Impreza that would work. Perhaps there is a standard size headlight (remember when all cars had round or square lights you could buy at K-Mart?) lens that's made with optics to use an HID bulb, then you could use a set of Morettes to get a housing to hold the lens. I don;t know if there's a lens for the later cars, either.

[Mr108]

They are illegal and being recalled by the manufacturers as we contact them. See:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...deetz.ztv.html

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...s/kim.ztv.html
We have initiated 13 compliance investigations (6 are currently ongoing) relative to HID conversions resulting in several recalls and stopped sales of these items.

[mbeach]

So you are the reason that the ThunderBeam kit that I was ordering a while back became "unavailable".

I understand enforcement of an existing law, and I have read FMVSS 108 from end to end. I am surprised at what is considered illegal, i.e. wiring low beam and high beam to work at the same time.

Stick to the Altezza ban. They add nothing to the car or it's safety. I however enjoy quality headlighting. I have spent quite a bit of money making my headlights both bright and safe. For myself and other drivers.

The NHTSA needs to get with the program. Are we to drive around with candles in our headlamp housings so that we don't "blind" some geezers who just want something to complain about? If you stare at a 55W halogen bulb on an incoming car you will be blinded just as well -should we get rid of those too?

EDIT: If you want to do something useful, get rid of those gas-guzzling, cellphone-chatting, soccer mom piloted, 5000 pound, understeering, underbraking, overheight bumper having, rock flinging, vision blocking SUVs.
Does little Vicki really need a 5000 pound roll cage to safely make it to ballet practice in a light rain?
I don't think so.

I'll bet there's more than a few of these monsters parked in the NHTSA employee parking lot...

[noblebc]

HID lighting as a product purchased new with the car is not going away. It is the kits that people are using to replace the current halogen lights. When reflectors are used that are not designed for HID, glare and stray light is very dangerous. If you have a properly designed system then no one is saying it is illegal.

[mbeach]

On my current car (WRX with EDM projectors) a retrofit kit IS illegal. Despite the fact that with the standard 55W bulbs, the lighting is pathetic (the pattern is good however). I have no reason to believe that a brighter light source will cast outside of my projector's well-defined beam pattern.

Now, retrofit kits for cars that use reflectors to intensify light is a bit much. We have established that.
But, if the user intends to mount these HID kits in a projector type housing, with a legal beam pattern, what's the problem?

The ThunderBeam Kit I mentioned earlier was also for a projector light housing (Nissan S14a). Good pattern, not enough light.

Mr108 (as in FMVSS108) was a hit-and-run poster. Check his profile.

If you are still there Mr108, just call me MrNon-Compliance.

[mbeach]

Here is a picture of a member's car with a properly aimed HID retrofit kit on EDM projectors.

This is how it's done.
Beautiful:

[Tobey]

if you read your "laws" closely, every single aftermarket part you put on your car is illegal.

no matter what laws are passed, no matter how many cops they put on the roads... these types of things are still going to be installed, sold and traded.

[Yotsuya]

Those lights look like they are aimed too high. At 25' from the wall, the cutoff should be no higher than the center of the lens. And it looks like only one is on, or maybe only the right lens has a vertical rise.

The type of lens isn't the issue; it's the bulb that matters. A projector light is just as much made to work with the dimensions of a wolfram bulb as a reflector assembly. According to this, there is a reflector through which light is angled prior to it's going through the "projection" part of the lens. As a result, changing the bulb here will cause the same off centering of the light source as a refelctor arrangement.

One interesting thing is the efficiency of these lights. Before I stated there was no real difference in the type because they all are designed to meet the same standards. While that's still basically true when it comes to meeting standards, it looks like a proper projector can do the job with less energy.

My main concern is the amount of light people want; you want enough light in the right places to highlight markings on the road and reflect in the eyes of a varmint. That's all. Too much light will give great vision in a certain locus, but very poor vision outside of it. It's just like when you turn the lights off in a room; you can't see because your eyes aren't adjusted for it. It's a trade off, and more light isn't always the answer.

Depending on where you live, E code lights aren't always the best choice. In Illinois the state puts reflectors everywhere so you can see the road very well (and any black spots that indicate debris). In Colorado there is nothing and any headlight has trouble finding the lines on the road. Probably the worst place I've driven with E-code lights was (technically) in Europe; rural roads in Ireland and the UK are very dangerous and require much lower speeds at night. On the other hand, they're a lot of fun during the day.

[mbeach]

You sound very knowledgeable on the subject of automobile lighting, so I will not debate you.

The picture I posted shows the projection pattern of the EDM lights. Mine are the same, just dimmer and yellow. There is a "shade" for lack of a better term inside of the projector housing that casts the beam in this shape:___/=== with both headlights. When properly aimed, they slightly overlap. Both headlights are on in this picture, and they are aimed properly. There is no rise to the right-hand light, it's the correct pattern for this projector.
EDIT: That picture is more like 50 feet from the wall, and the beam pattern on the left goes no higher than the tail light on that F150 in the background. I'll bet at 25 feet the beam hits right at knee level.

I was irritated that some NHTSA officer jumped on to this forum to post what amounts to a "We'll get you yet!" threat.

Like I'm impressed with the fact that he's doing his job
I worked for the government for 12 years, and I know what's happening in that office.
He'll get a fat promotion and an office next to the water fountain if he sends out a few letters to some small time vendors to shut down this "HID Menace".
Big deal.

They are avoiding the bigger issues that affect the safety of America's roads.

[Kean]

Originally posted by mbeach
They are avoiding the bigger issues that affect the safety of America's roads.

I've been blinded numerous times by idiots with illegal, improperly installed, retrofit lighting and higher-than-legal wattage bulbs. Frankly, this does affect the safety of America's roads.

Now if the headlamps were available as a complete unit (i.e. EDM HID's), I would be very receptive to having them legalized for use on USDM Subarus (provided they meet U.S. specifications).

- Kean

[CirrusWRX]

I love the fact that I can't friggin get a replacement bulb anymore now that one of mine is burned out.

Also, F you all who's job it is to make it impossible for people who want to purchase and install a product on their car which will never be driven on US highways. I think when you're done with the low beams, you should go after HID fog lights on rally-only driven cars too - those things are SO damned bright!!!!

Continue assisting in another one of the gov'ts moments of brilliance.

[Kean]

Originally posted by CirrusWRX
I love the fact that I can't friggin get a replacement bulb anymore now that one of mine is burned out.

Also, F you all who's job it is to make it impossible for people who want to purchase and install a product on their car which will never be driven on US highways. I think when you're done with the low beams, you should go after HID fog lights on rally-only driven cars too - those things are SO damned bright!!!!

Continue assisting in another one of the gov'ts moments of brilliance.

Maybe you can thank those brilliant individuals who decided to improperly install them for "on road" use and captured the unwanted attention of the government.