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Old 12-12-2003, 11:22 PM   #1
annointed
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NSX 450 whp SC'd (93 oct)

Default FP18g + WRXtuner's water injection dyno'd today (12/12)

Well, I had my '02 WRX dynoed at TurboTrix (BM Tranny) today by Junior. My appointment started at 8 AM, and we were done the final pull by 2 PM. Junior is awesome at tuning WRX's, and is clearly at home with the UTEC software...in fact, when my laptop battery died out halfway through, he whipped out his laptop, which happens to have UTEC software downloaded, so we were able to continue tuning

Anyway, I've always heard their dyno is high, perhaps since moving it to their new location something changed, but I doubt it. I'm not impressed with my numbers, but I'm VERY pleased with the car, it feels much stronger everywhere now. The powerband is rediculously different. I have 300 ft-lbs by 3800 RPM now, versus ~260 ft-lbs when I walked in. I have 21 psi by 4000 RPM, too. We were able to gain several hundred RPM's earlier spool up, which is very noticable on the street...anyway, I'm sitting here trying to describe charts, which is useless. Hopefully tomorrow I can get to my dad's and scan the charts. The car makes 40-80 more hp and ft-lbs at any given RPM, compared to when I walked in.

94 octane baseline: 261.6 hp, 263.2 ft-lbs (20.5 psi)

94 octane tuned: 290.2 hp, 282.0 ft-lbs (20.5 psi)

Water injection: 326.3 hp, 317.1 ft-lbs (23.5 psi)

All tunes are extremely on the safe side. The pump gas tune runs between 10.0:1 and 10.8:1. The water injection tune maxes out at 11.8:1 a/f ratio. Most people suggest aiming for between 12:1 and 12.5:1, so we left some more gains on the table there, too. Junior was initially nervous about leaning out the fuel and adding more timing, but after talking to Nick (WRXtuner), he was willing to do it. We still chose not to seek the limit of my set-up. The whole day we had no detonation events with my car. 340 whp would probably have been possible with the WI...but a 36 hp/30 ft-lb gain for a $300 WI kit sounds great to me! Junior thought so too, and we chose to err on the side of safety, and close it down for the day.

Graphs to come as soon as I can get them scanned (hopefully tomorrow).
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Last edited by annointed; 12-12-2003 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 12-12-2003, 11:39 PM   #2
metoo
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I didn't know WI coul;d do that for you!

When you say "baseline," is that with all hardware install and untuned and WI off?

Which WI kit do you have?
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Old 12-13-2003, 12:08 AM   #3
annointed
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Quote:
Originally posted by metoo
I didn't know WI coul;d do that for you!

When you say "baseline," is that with all hardware install and untuned and WI off?

Which WI kit do you have?
WI is a lot like running race gas all the time. I'm actually not running it on the street right now, because the car is so violently powerful on it that I'm afraid the tranny will break. I should have an upgraded tranny in the next month or so, then I'll be running the WI daily.

Baseline is the first pull of the day to see how the car is running prior to all tuning.

The WI kit is the one that WRXtuner has for sale. He has a second group buy for it right now, IIRC. I was part of the first group buy.
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Old 12-13-2003, 12:25 AM   #4
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Damn that is some great power coming from your car!!! The FP18G doesn't cease to amaze me. Could you post a full engine mod list please? Also, how exactly does the water injection work... toggled by a switch or does it just run all the time?

Sucks I didn't know you were going today otherwise I woulda headed down there to say whats up.

Either way, congrats!!

-Mike
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Old 12-13-2003, 12:26 AM   #5
annointed
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Mod list:

FP18g turbo
UTEC
WRXtuner water injection kit
STi Injectors
MRT 3 Turbo-back Exhaust
STi VII Top Mount Intercooler
Blitz SBC-iD
Go Fast Bits Pulley Kit
Godspeed Up-pipe
Blitz SUS Intake
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Old 12-13-2003, 12:35 AM   #6
annointed
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Quote:
Originally posted by InfamousDX
Damn that is some great power coming from your car!!! The FP18G doesn't cease to amaze me. Could you post a full engine mod list please? Also, how exactly does the water injection work... toggled by a switch or does it just run all the time?

Sucks I didn't know you were going today otherwise I woulda headed down there to say whats up.

Either way, congrats!!

-Mike
Yeah, I'm liking the 18g. The car had a VF30 when I got it, but the 18g stays violent all the way to redline, and now comes on sooner than the VF30 did, too (of course, the VF30 was only using a base map, not custom dyno tuned maps).

This WI kit has an on/off switch. You need a specific WI map, and so if you're running that map, you need the WI to be on all the time. From what I understand, nearly everybody running this kit runs WI full time, which is what I'll do once I swap in a better tranny.

Thanks, it was fun being there, and seeing so many amazing cars. Woulda been fun to have a couple Subaru peeps there to chill w/.
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Old 12-13-2003, 12:49 AM   #7
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With WI, how often do you guys find yourselves refilling your water tanks?
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Old 12-13-2003, 01:01 AM   #8
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annointed Nice numbers. What do you think of junior and his ability to tune the utec? He is really skeptical about the water injection maybe you changed his mind.


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Old 12-13-2003, 01:04 AM   #9
nmyeti
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Junior knows his stuff. Great job guys!

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
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Old 12-13-2003, 07:26 AM   #10
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very nice.

waiting for the graph
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Old 12-13-2003, 10:40 AM   #11
MAD REX
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WI is sooo tempting
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Old 12-13-2003, 10:43 AM   #12
annointed
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NSX 450 whp SC'd (93 oct)

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Quote:
Originally posted by Raslian
With WI, how often do you guys find yourselves refilling your water tanks?
I'm told that most of the guys running this kit fill the windshield washer resevior every time they fill up w/gas, but it really depends on how often you're in boost.

Junior seems to be very at home w/UTEC tuning. He was indeed skeptical about WI, so I called Nick, who sells the kits, and let the two of them talk. Junior was amazed at how much he could lean out the mixture and just keep on adding timing with NO det whatsoever...not to mention we were peaking at 24 psi of boost all the while
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Old 12-13-2003, 11:58 AM   #13
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this is all stock internals??? awsome numbers!
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Old 12-13-2003, 03:33 PM   #14
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annointed, amazing numbers im very impressed...

btw, im not too familiar w/this whole water injection thing, well not in detail at least... i wuz told its just simply a sprayer kit for ur top mount ic, and i cant see how that helps out so much... how much do u think WI would help on the stock turbo?
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Old 12-13-2003, 03:33 PM   #15
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Nice! Congrats and enjoy the car.
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Old 12-13-2003, 04:54 PM   #16
annointed
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hassassin
annointed, amazing numbers im very impressed...

btw, im not too familiar w/this whole water injection thing, well not in detail at least... i wuz told its just simply a sprayer kit for ur top mount ic, and i cant see how that helps out so much... how much do u think WI would help on the stock turbo?
WI is different from waterspray for your intercooler. Water injection is similar in concept to nitrous. WRXtuner's kit sprays a high pressure fine mist of water into the throttle body when certain conditions are met (mine are 4250 rpm, 55% throttle AND 12 psi), which kicks on the solenoid and allows the water to flow. The difference from nitrous is that nitrous oxide itself provides the performance increase. Whereas water injection alone won't provide much noticable performance increase, aside from drastically lowering your EGT (~200 degrees), but it allows you to run more aggressively, ie, more boost, more timing, less fuel, so its a lot like the advantage of race gas...so to take advantage of WI you should have some kind of engine management.
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Old 12-13-2003, 05:02 PM   #17
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Hassassin - It sprays directly into your intake stream, and goes into the engine, along with your charged air. It cools the cylinders a few hundred degrees, among other things. I had the original kit on my wrx. I've got a dual-nozzle setup, 3gph and 5gph, at 7psi and 12psi. Im running around 20psi on the street on 93 octane and the car pulls really hard. Dataloglab reports around 320-330whp at the track, and thats not even what it makes on the street when lots of air is passing over and its cooler in the engine bay. The clutch slips on the street, but at the track i loost about 20lb-ft torque due to heat-soak from sitting for a minute, so the clutch is fine at the track. That was good enough for a 107.65mph, with only a 2.2sec 60'. I was doing around 84mph at the 1/8th, so to pull up to 107.6 is great. This was with a full tank of gas and no weight reduction, along with bigger tires and such. Fully prepped i can easily see 110+mph. This is all on the stock injectors/rails/regulator. I've only replaced the pump with a walboro due to hitting 60,000 miles. Anyhow anymore questions, please feel free to email nick or myself, or just pm one of us. Most questions can be answered if you first check the threads on it, just search for Wrxtuner and look for appropriate threads. Anyhow, Have a nice day!

Jeff
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Old 12-13-2003, 05:13 PM   #18
Hassassin
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Quote:
Originally posted by annointed
WI is different from waterspray for your intercooler. Water injection is similar in concept to nitrous. WRXtuner's kit sprays a high pressure fine mist of water into the throttle body when certain conditions are met (mine are 4250 rpm, 55% throttle AND 12 psi), which kicks on the solenoid and allows the water to flow. The difference from nitrous is that nitrous oxide itself provides the performance increase. Whereas water injection alone won't provide much noticable performance increase, aside from drastically lowering your EGT (~200 degrees), but it allows you to run more aggressively, ie, more boost, more timing, less fuel, so its a lot like the advantage of race gas...so to take advantage of WI you should have some kind of engine management.
that is gonna be my next plan: pick up a utec & WI i think
then ill be able to run 17psi for hopeuflly a 12.8 or bettr run, maye a 12.7 w/a bigger intercooler & pulley

thnx for the info!
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:09 PM   #19
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why not just get a 150shot and run 12.0's
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:11 PM   #20
Hassassin
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlambert
why not just get a 150shot and run 12.0's
nitrous is for women and/or for subaru people who cant drive & try to make up for it
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:22 PM   #21
annointed
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlambert
why not just get a 150shot and run 12.0's
Aside from your sarcasm (duly noted, water injection on a street car makes as much sense as a big shot of nitrous on a street car), BUT there is a big advantage of WI over nitrous...WI is always there, always on (unless I flip the switch off and run my pump gas only map, of course), unlike nitrous, which runs out hella fast if you always use it...could you imagine how expensive it would be to refill your nitrous bottle every day

Whereas I just bought 6 gallons of -20 washer fluid for $1.09/bottle. Most people are refilling every fill up...so for an extra $1 per fill up, I'll have the same performance as race gas.

Of course, WI is potentially deadly for the motor if either the soleniod or pump it fails, or if the nozzle or lines becomes clogged for some reason...suddenly you'd be running a race gas only tune, but on 93/94 octane, which could definitely cause severe engine damage...so the user should understand the risk involved...my WRX is my main car, but I have another car I could drive if something catastrophic happened...plus my water injection tune is not crazy aggressive, and I suspect the UTEC would save the motor from severe damage if for some reason the system failed, fwiw...and if the motor does go, I hear Rallispec has USDM STi shortblocks for under 2 G's.

Last edited by annointed; 12-13-2003 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by annointed
Aside from your sarcasm (duly noted)
I wasnt joking and my comment was directed to hassassin. STEALTH-WRX ran a flat 12 well over a year ago with the stock turbo.
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:39 PM   #23
annointed
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlambert
I wasnt joking and my comment was directed to hassassin. STEALTH-WRX ran a flat 12 well over a year ago with the stock turbo.
lol, its all good. Hassassin will be in for a big surprise if he's running 12.9's already...a UTEC and WI will probably let him run 12.5's or better in street trim @ 20 psi on stock turbo, as silly as that may be...of course its proper to upgrade the turbo to a more efficient one...but while tuning my car, Junior made several comments about how much the water/methanol mix appeared to be lowering my intake air temps according to the UTEC, and noted how cool to the touch the TMIC was, since the mixture is sprayed into the base of the TMIC just before the throttle body. So not only do you have the silly high octane boost of a 50% methanol mixture, but the WI itself will probably cool down the superheated air of a turbo run beyond its efficiency range.
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:54 PM   #24
Hassassin
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlambert
I wasnt joking and my comment was directed to hassassin. STEALTH-WRX ran a flat 12 well over a year ago with the stock turbo.
yea i kno he did, nothing special... y not just spray a 50000 shot and run 1s one time
nitrous isnt for me
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:55 PM   #25
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youre an idiot
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