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Old 04-07-2004, 09:04 PM   #1
ParadoxDHL
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Talking 2.5 engine bad???

I heard from multiple sources that the 2.5L engine in the STi is kinda bad. I hear that the cylinder wall was weak and the engine started to perform bad at 60,000 miles. If this is true what can I do to strengthen the engine and make it last longer? Thanks
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:20 PM   #2
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eat less paint?

honestly I don't see what people are bitching about...
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:29 PM   #3
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Something is wrong???,,,,large not managed horsepower grenades engines,,,,you pay you play.
and ,,who has more then 60,000 on the odo anyway to report this?? Sure cant be many.
IMHO,,the blown motors(very few) that I have heard of didnt seem to be the engines fault.

Rudy
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:42 PM   #4
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The stock shortblock is on the weak side.

-Mike
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:42 PM   #5
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60,000 in one year
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:59 PM   #6
ParadoxDHL
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The stock shortblock is on the weak side? What's this mean. Sorry i'm a newb.
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Old 04-07-2004, 10:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParadoxDHL
The stock shortblock is on the weak side? What's this mean. Sorry i'm a newb.
These are a couple problem areas.



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Old 04-07-2004, 10:37 PM   #8
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i think no EM has something to do with it
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:32 PM   #9
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-Sponaugle runs 400+ whp (Utec over ECUTek reflash)
-Bailey runs 320+ whp (xede)
-Brackenbrough is running 300whp (xede)
-Jason (guy down the street from me, not on this board) is running 18psi through a AVO450, putting down about 350whp (gestimate based on experience) using e-manage
- Another guy PDXTuning tuned to 368whp with AVO450 (he's on this board, can't think of his user name, sorry David!) (xede)

I just put together a 2.5 block with V7 heads, and I'm running 18psi of boost through it, and its MUCH stronger than my V7 2.0 block was at 23psi (and it was 333whp). This is with the old style PE1820 turbo. (Utec over ECUtek reflash)

Thats 6 examples of the cars putting down a LOT more than stock power levels (230whp on the Mustang dyno we have access to). So far, no issues.

<- monkey knocking on wood

The difference? Engine management! Its all about engine management. Keeping timing under control, keeping the fueling reasonable, and matching octane to boost levels.

Its actually very easy to see what the STi ECU is doing with the deltadash. You can watch the knock correction - if you pull out timing, you can see it actively add it back in. Pull out enough, and it'll never get negative knock correction, and you're car will be MUCH happier.

When the STi utec comes out (so you can have static timing and not have to worry about fighting the knock correction constantly), and the ECUTEk reflash comes out, and there is more control of the STi ecu, I think we'll have more examples out there of big power, and be able to tell if the blocks are "weak".

Until then, I don't think anybody can truely pass judgement one way or the other.

Last edited by DarthChicken; 04-07-2004 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:36 PM   #10
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Guys have put that much power down on stock WRX blocks. Time will tell how well this block holds up though. We will see how important thick liners are vs case reinforcement.
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:41 PM   #11
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I know Sponaugle run was on 95 octaine add that to the pixi dust that his motors seem to run on...

What about the others?


Quote:
Originally posted by MJU1983
These are a couple problem areas.



Yup, yup. Thin walls, heavy pistons, and small rods. Its not a great block. But its steps ahead of the wrx block... mid 20psi may be a problem will lead to snaped rods, ovaling. The ej207 and even better ej22t are better blocks then the ej257.



Quote:
If this is true what can I do to strengthen the engine and make it last longer? Thanks

As for it not lasting 60k well thats just funny. I see no reason why it wouldnt...

If you are looking for ~400+ whp get a build block. But thats going to run 5 to $10k. As for who to get the build motor from.... www.cobbtuning.com
www.axispowerracing.net
www.i-speedusa.com
www.spdusa.com
www.rallispec.com
www.magnusmotorsports.com
www.payntechnologies.com
www.rigoliracing.com.au
..... Im getting tired of posting links.
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by wgknestrick
Guys have put that much power down on stock WRX blocks. Time will tell how well this block holds up though. We will see how important thick liners are vs case reinforcement.
Well the pistions walls are already out of round(oval) so at high boost, and the stock rods dont snap, you will see a good amount of ovaling. I think more so because they are out of round vs a piston that was perfectly round.


Edit: but we are talking 24-25psi...

Last edited by totoherbs; 04-08-2004 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 04-08-2004, 12:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: 2.5 engine bad???

Quote:
Originally posted by ParadoxDHL
I heard from multiple sources that the 2.5L engine in the STi is kinda bad. I hear that the cylinder wall was weak and the engine started to perform bad at 60,000 miles. If this is true what can I do to strengthen the engine and make it last longer? Thanks
I've heard of VERY few people with stock engines that have issues.

Most of the modded failures seem to pertain to the "bolt on" syndrome because decent aftermarket engine management took a while to get sorted out.
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Old 04-08-2004, 01:15 AM   #14
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Toto,
Explain what you are talking about about the cyls being out of round and the pistons being perfectly round. If you are talking about the STi block then the pistons and the cyls are both out of round the same amount(pistons only go in upside down or right side up with no rods attached, the cant be skewed to the side). I think though that this topic of "bad" STi blocks has been beaten to death.

Richard
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Old 04-08-2004, 01:32 AM   #15
MJU1983
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The standard STi piston is not perfectly round. Itís taller than it is wide. I think that is what he was referring to Richard.

-Mike
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Old 04-08-2004, 01:34 AM   #16
MJU1983
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthChicken
I just put together a 2.5 block with V7 heads, and I'm running 18psi of boost through it, and its MUCH stronger than my V7 2.0 block was at 23psi (and it was 333whp). This is with the old style PE1820 turbo. (Utec over ECUtek reflash)
I'm going to disagree with that statement. How do you figure your new ej257 is 'MUCH' stronger than the ej207 ver 7?

-Mike
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Old 04-08-2004, 01:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJU1983
I'm going to disagree with that statement. How do you figure your new ej257 is 'MUCH' stronger than the ej207 ver 7?

-Mike
My guess is because he feels more tq.


Quote:
Originally posted by MJU1983
The standard STi piston is not perfectly round. Itís taller than it is wide. I think that is what he was referring to Richard.

-Mike
Yup.
Its easyer to "oval" an already oval piston wall then a perfectly circular one. And no one is saying its a bad block... its just not the top dog. Its not even 2nd.
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Old 04-08-2004, 01:44 AM   #18
MJU1983
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
My guess is because he feels more tq.

O maybe stronger in regards to power. Geee you think .5 liters will do that to ya?

I was thinking he was commenting on block strength.

-Mike
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:16 AM   #19
DarthChicken
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I was commenting that I am running lower boost, and the car feels much stronger. Poor choice of words on this post probably

Whether the block itself is as strong as my V7 block.... I have no idea. Getting a turbo that would let me run 23psi to redline on this block would defeat the purpose of what I intended to do, which is to make my daily drive a lot more fun by using pump gas (instead of toluene mix) and having usable power at 3000rpm or less. And, having the same power I had before. Its just a way of simplifying my life
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:29 AM   #20
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Also, I am no engineer but if you keep clearances the same from the WRX block to the STi block or lesser in the STi's case and oval the cyl walls slightly wouldnt you be lessening the possibility that the cyls would oval because arent you actually making way for something that is already going to happen? Kind of like building for a problem.... like a bandaid, almost like pre stressing a material. Also, if you take a piece of plastic that is the same thickness for both pieces and bend one to a half- circle and the other to a slight half-oval shape, if you push down in the middle of both pieces while in their shape it is harder to push out the wall in the center of the oval than the circle. But, I might be absolutely wrong.

Richard
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Old 04-08-2004, 12:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by XT6Wagon
eat less paint?

honestly I don't see what people are bitching about...
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Old 04-08-2004, 01:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParadoxDHL
I heard from multiple sources that the 2.5L engine in the STi is kinda bad. I hear that the cylinder wall was weak and the engine started to perform bad at 60,000 miles. If this is true what can I do to strengthen the engine and make it last longer? Thanks
It all depends on how much power you want to make. If you're going to leave the car stock it will be fine. If you only going to add just exhaust it will be fine. If your throwing a FP Green on it then maybe you should get some bottom end work done.
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Old 04-08-2004, 04:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by eightballrj
Also, I am no engineer but if you keep clearances the same from the WRX block to the STi block or lesser in the STi's case and oval the cyl walls slightly wouldnt you be lessening the possibility that the cyls would oval because arent you actually making way for something that is already going to happen? Kind of like building for a problem.... like a bandaid, almost like pre stressing a material. Also, if you take a piece of plastic that is the same thickness for both pieces and bend one to a half- circle and the other to a slight half-oval shape, if you push down in the middle of both pieces while in their shape it is harder to push out the wall in the center of the oval than the circle. But, I might be absolutely wrong.

Richard
If you take an oval cup and equally apply pressure to all sides it will oval quicker then a perfectly circiular cup. But thats not only the problem the thin walls and the biggest part of this equation.

Quote:
Originally posted by mbiker97
It all depends on how much power you want to make. If you're going to leave the car stock it will be fine. If you only going to add just exhaust it will be fine. If your throwing a FP Green on it then maybe you should get some bottom end work done.
The sti would beinifit from some nice head porting too...
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Old 04-08-2004, 04:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs


The sti would beinifit from some nice head porting too...
Yeah.. Cause those US Small port heads suck. Thats for sure.

C
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Old 04-08-2004, 05:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParadoxDHL
I heard from multiple sources that the 2.5L engine in the STi is kinda bad. I hear that the cylinder wall was weak and the engine started to perform bad at 60,000 miles. If this is true what can I do to strengthen the engine and make it last longer? Thanks
Can you provide some of the sources? Is there a thread or article somewhere. I am just a concerned owner and would be interested in reading more about it.
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