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Old 06-23-2004, 02:35 PM   #1
PDXTuning
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Default Some interesting STI ECU Reflash Details and analysis..

As most people know, the EcuTek Reflash Software for the US STI and US Forester has been released to the tuning community.
I wanted to post some technical analysis, as well as a few screenshots of the software, as well as the underlying
ECU information. There will be some very rapid development on this front in the next two weeks, so stay posted.

First and formost, here is a look at a few maps as well as some of the parameters that can be changed.

Boost Control



This is a low boost map (target boost is only 1.83 absolute, which is only 12psi). The onboard STI boost controller has both start and maximum duty cycles, as well as a total target boost based on RPM and TPS. The ECU also has adjustable integration and delta parameters, which can be used to make the boost control work faster and more effecticly with a larger turbo. My initial experimentation with this shows the algorythm to be better then the previous gen WRX ecus, and works quite well.


Cam Timing Control



This is a Exhaust Cam Timing map from the JDM Legacy. (Note Exhaust, not intake Cam, as the legacy has the AVCS on BOTH!)
Both Cams can be advanced based on RPM and engine load (g/rev, which is MAF*60/RPM).

Ignition Timing Control



As is obvious from this chart, this is the base timing map for the updated US STI (AJ242). You can see how the timing rolls down with load, and up with RPM. Like the previous gen ECU, there is also a series of additiona maps that contain futher ignition corrections applied by the knock system. The ECU will run this base timing, plus or minus additiona timing from the knock correction maps.

Unlike the previous gen ECUs, the advance multipler is much more complicated. It is not scaled from 0-1, not 0-16. It starts at 0.50, and ramps up to a maximum of 1.0. However, there are three seperate ignition correction maps, and it is not a simple combination of multipler/16*correction + learnt map. More on this to come as we experiment, but needless to say, the stock ECU has a very sophisticated knock system.


Map List



Here is a quick shot at some of the maps that are available for editing. Lots of things that can be tweaked. Things like Desired Boost Cool Temp Comp is very cool, as you can make the target boost wastegate until the motor has warmed up. Very cool.


** Interesting Notes **

Unlike the old WRX ECUs, the STI listens for knock up to 6800 rpm, and learns ignition correction all the way. Also, if significant knock is detected, timing is reduced for the entire run. The stock WRX ecu has a 'bug' in the sense that after 6k, it stops both the knock detection, as well as the correction. This leads to blown motors pretty eaisly.

The MAF sensor is scaled up to 4.98 volts, which equates to 348 g/sec! This means the stock sensor used on the WRX is also good to this amount. Unfortunatly it isn't possible to change this in the older ECUs as they are limited at 300g/sec in the scaling matrix. However, the stock MAF setup on the STI is good to 348 g/sec, which is pretty high.

The stock STI is default set to not have the long delay to open loop from closed loop, unlike the 04 WRXs. These parameters are adjustable of course.

The stock STI applies fuel correction and closed loop up to 5100 rpm, as long as load is under a set value. This can be adjusted per gear, which is pretty cool.

Boost Limit is of course 1.28 bar, as we all know. Easy to change that!

The forester ECU has a much higher speed limit (510 kph vs 230 kph).

The forester ECU is mapped to lower load limits, a bit more advance, much less boost, and a tad leaner.

The forester ECU does not use the same knock system. It does not appear to have 3 different correction maps, only 1. More on this to come.

(**side note: I did get permission to post the above screenshots from EcuTek).
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:58 PM   #2
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so what does this all mean man?!

Don
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:09 PM   #3
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that means your STi can't get up to 510kph like the Forester :P:P
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:27 PM   #4
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The number of parameter maps is dizzying. It's almost like they have left more to manual control instead of just setting a target that the code optimizes to.

Any thoughts on why Subaru would have made the changes they did to engine management?

What would be the advantages?
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:52 PM   #5
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is the fuel map 15x18 too ..

are the set points adjustable or set

intersting that the cam map is a differnt resolution than the advance map
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaxx
is the fuel map 15x18 too ..

are the set points adjustable or set

intersting that the cam map is a differnt resolution than the advance map
Some parameters need finer control than others... thus the different sized maps.

Fuel control:
you can change individual target cells, the injector size, open/closed loop kinetics, etc. Each of these variables will have different effects on fueling.

Bailey, PDXTuning
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Old 06-23-2004, 04:41 PM   #7
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you guys are awesome at diving into these engine management solutions and letting us (the end user) know whats going on. awesome work, guys.
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Old 06-23-2004, 04:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by happasaiyan
you guys are awesome at diving into these engine management solutions and letting us (the end user) know whats going on. awesome work, guys.
agreed!!! im kinda a noobie to subies and em. so is the ecutek reflash and utec do the same thing? both can change engine parameters, except if you want to tune the reflash, you have to go to an authorized dealer to have them do it? and with utec, you can do all that stuff yourself or go to a tuner and have it tuned?
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Old 06-23-2004, 04:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by ryu12341
agreed!!! im kinda a noobie to subies and em. so is the ecutek reflash and utec do the same thing? both can change engine parameters, except if you want to tune the reflash, you have to go to an authorized dealer to have them do it? and with utec, you can do all that stuff yourself or go to a tuner and have it tuned?
Basicly ecutek and cobbs access ecu are reflashes, utec and xede are piggy backs. Different ways of going about the same basic things. Then there are stand alones...
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Old 06-23-2004, 05:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
Basicly ecutek and cobbs access ecu are reflashes, utec and xede are piggy backs. Different ways of going about the same basic things. Then there are stand alones...
i see. thanks for clearing that up for me. how much do reflashes cost?
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Old 06-23-2004, 05:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by ryu12341
i see. thanks for clearing that up for me. how much do reflashes cost?
$600 ecutek ~$400 for cobbs. Not counting a dyno tune just the off the shelf maps.
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Old 06-23-2004, 05:55 PM   #12
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No, ECUtek is far and away more powerful. Not suprising as its leaching off of millions that Subaru and Denso put into R&D for the cars ECU. Basicly it unlocks all the maps and toys the Factory uses to make thier cars rock and roll.

The UTEC is a piggyback, and thus has limitations. Has a very nice feature set but its still not as powerful.

That said..

what I will be doing is getting the "course" tune dialed in with ECUtek and then use my unichip to fine tune any changes when they happen. IE I get a perfect tune on the ECUtek as the car sits. Then lets say in a month I put in colder . I know plenty of people that use a Utec over ECUtek to do the same thing. more $$$ but lets face it when you are running a big turbo anything you need to have all the tools you can to make sure that its in happy land.
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:52 PM   #13
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Kingpin used my MBC in conjuntion w/ my ecutek, and there is still plenty of fuel and no signs of knock. W/ the flash it seems friendly to other mods to help it along.
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Old 06-24-2004, 01:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaxx
is the fuel map 15x18 too ..

are the set points adjustable or set

intersting that the cam map is a differnt resolution than the advance map
The Fuel maps are also 15x18, and both x and labels are completly configurable. This allows you to have more resolution where you need it, and also allows complete extension of the maps to handle higher load. The x axis on the map is the actual load per rev (cylinder/2), which is a direct index to the load in the ECU. This is benifical over just a typical speed density system where the index is either map or maf, not maf/rpm.

The cam advance is not timing advance, and has no relation to ignition, so the difference is not that supising. As well, the resolution would not need to be that great, as the response time of the cam system is not that fast.

Jeff
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Old 06-24-2004, 01:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
$600 ecutek ~$400 for cobbs. Not counting a dyno tune just the off the shelf maps.
And there are other differences, as not each one has the same map exposure. I have seen maps from both, and they are different. The EcuTek technology is very advanced, and the research into the operation of many of the ECUs internal operations is very extensive. Let it be clear that the stock ecu has 512k of rom code, with more then 600 distinct maps. This is not your fathers olds.

I have learned more in the last 24 hours about the STI ecu then I did in the last 6 months.

Jeff
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Old 06-24-2004, 04:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by XT6Wagon
No, ECUtek is far and away more powerful. Not suprising as its leaching off of millions that Subaru and Denso put into R&D for the cars ECU. Basicly it unlocks all the maps and toys the Factory uses to make thier cars rock and roll.

The UTEC is a piggyback, and thus has limitations. Has a very nice feature set but its still not as powerful.

That said..

what I will be doing is getting the "course" tune dialed in with ECUtek and then use my unichip to fine tune any changes when they happen. IE I get a perfect tune on the ECUtek as the car sits. Then lets say in a month I put in colder . I know plenty of people that use a Utec over ECUtek to do the same thing. more $$$ but lets face it when you are running a big turbo anything you need to have all the tools you can to make sure that its in happy land.


empty your mailbox man
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Old 06-24-2004, 07:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by PDXTuning
Let it be clear that the stock ecu has 512k of rom code, with more then 600 distinct maps. This is not your fathers olds.
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Old 06-24-2004, 09:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by PDXTuning
The Fuel maps are also 15x18, and both x and labels are completly configurable. This allows you to have more resolution where you need it, and also allows complete extension of the maps to handle higher load. The x axis on the map is the actual load per rev (cylinder/2), which is a direct index to the load in the ECU. This is benifical over just a typical speed density system where the index is either map or maf, not maf/rpm.

The cam advance is not timing advance, and has no relation to ignition, so the difference is not that supising. As well, the resolution would not need to be that great, as the response time of the cam system is not that fast.

Jeff

Keep the info flowing...



areg
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Old 06-24-2004, 09:38 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by PDXTuning
Like the previous gen ECU, there is also a series of additiona maps that contain futher ignition corrections applied by the knock system. The ECU will run this base timing, plus or minus additiona timing from the knock correction maps.

Unlike the previous gen ECUs, the advance multipler is much more complicated. It is not scaled from 0-1, not 0-16. It starts at 0.50, and ramps up to a maximum of 1.0. However, there are three seperate ignition correction maps, and it is not a simple combination of multipler/16*correction + learnt map. More on this to come as we experiment, but needless to say, the stock ECU has a very sophisticated knock system.
It seems likely that the STi's advance multiplier which EcuTeK reports is an interpretation of the actual value stored in RAM. EcuTeK could have reported the WRX's advance multiplier as a value between 0-1 or as a percentage, 0-100, instead of the actual value stored in RAM. I'd be interested in learning what EcuTeK is telling tuners about how the STi's advance multiplier is used. For instance, how would an advance multiplier value of 0.5 affect ignition advance calculation and why are values less than 0.5 impossible?

I'm also curious about whether any differences in map values can be seen when compaing a virgin STi ECU from the first batch of deliveries with an STi ECU that has been reflashed by SOA to correct knock problems.

I also find it interesting that changes introduced in the 2005 STi ECU were significant enough that support is not yet available in the EcuTeK software. Is this true for all 2005 ECUs (like the Legacy GT)?
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Old 06-24-2004, 12:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
It seems likely that the STi's advance multiplier which EcuTeK reports is an interpretation of the actual value stored in RAM. EcuTeK could have reported the WRX's advance multiplier as a value between 0-1 or as a percentage, 0-100, instead of the actual value stored in RAM. I'd be interested in learning what EcuTeK is telling tuners about how the STi's advance multiplier is used. For instance, how would an advance multiplier value of 0.5 affect ignition advance calculation and why are values less than 0.5 impossible?

I'm also curious about whether any differences in map values can be seen when compaing a virgin STi ECU from the first batch of deliveries with an STi ECU that has been reflashed by SOA to correct knock problems.

I also find it interesting that changes introduced in the 2005 STi ECU were significant enough that support is not yet available in the EcuTeK software. Is this true for all 2005 ECUs (like the Legacy GT)?
Your first assesment is dead on, as the microcontroller would store a constant such as this in a fixed point format, with perhaps an implied binary decimal point. In fact, the 1-16 mulitplier would be the same as 0-1 in .0625 increments. From what I have seen, the STI multiplier has at least this resolution, so it is possible the underlying value is the same 4 bits, or perhaps more. Either way, the car starts off with a multiplier of .5, and slowly grows up to 1.0.

As for the algorythm used for the final timing, it appears to be very complex. It does not seem to be a direct x/16 of the correction table, but some combination of gearing, time at speed or time running, coolent temp, air temp, as well as three different comp map. I'll be spending some time on the dyno in the next few weeks getting this figured out.

As for the difference between the old and new flashes from Subaru, I have seen both, and it is exactly as I would have expected: The base timing map in the new ecu has about a degree taken out, and that degree was added back into to one of the compensation maps. That means under the right fuel conditions, it will run the same map as before, but it has a bit more authority to pull timing out. That is pretty much it, plus a few small changes on the fuel map.

I'm not sure about the differences on the 2005, but I'll do some research and post back.

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 06-24-2004, 01:42 PM   #21
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the big deal with the 2005 and legacy gt is the imobilizer key-chip
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Old 06-24-2004, 07:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by PDXTuning
As for the difference between the old and new flashes from Subaru, I have seen both, and it is exactly as I would have expected: The base timing map in the new ecu has about a degree taken out, and that degree was added back into to one of the compensation maps. That means under the right fuel conditions, it will run the same map as before, but it has a bit more authority to pull timing out. That is pretty much it, plus a few small changes on the fuel map.

I'm not sure about the differences on the 2005, but I'll do some research and post back.

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning [/b]
This is great info. I didn't even ask because I'm not use to hearing back from tuners on the subject : )

Thanks,

-st
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Old 06-25-2004, 12:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by singletrack
This is great info. I didn't even ask because I'm not use to hearing back from tuners on the subject : )

Thanks,

-st
Understood.. It is a difficult balance. I believe more can be gained by sharing then not.. The only limits are often legal ones (reverse engineering, other people's Intel. Property, etc).

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 06-25-2004, 02:30 PM   #24
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Is the STi ECUTek reflash compatible with the '05 cars?
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Old 06-25-2004, 03:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisF
Is the STi ECUTek reflash compatible with the '05 cars?
not yet
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