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07-02-2010, 07:39 AM | #26 | ||
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I assume he wants this car to be functional at some point, rather than just taking up parking space. Sure, they can, any Subaru based application just takes $texas to get there. Quote:
If I were looking for a 600whp garage queen, this is the ticket.
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07-02-2010, 08:10 AM | #27 |
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The biggest factor i have found is the cost to make hp.
You can make the same amount of hp for a fraction of the cost that it takes with a Subaru. Its a fact. |
07-02-2010, 08:17 AM | #28 |
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it'll always be easier to make big power on an I4 than it is with an H4
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07-02-2010, 10:35 AM | #29 |
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why do these thread even pop up?
There really is no comparison. |
07-02-2010, 10:50 AM | #30 |
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how about a 600hp s2000 those are easy! Haha but it seems that you've got your work cut out for you either way you go. Just think of your end result, what's going to make you more proud to have built, what will be the most rewarding. The fun isn't always at the destination, it's about the enjoyment along the way! A wicked white 600hp evo would be a dream of mine, but likewise so would a similarly powered sti.
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07-02-2010, 02:41 PM | #31 |
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OP mentioned wanting to break 600awhp...what's your budget? When I see numbers thrown out I always wonder why that number specifially?. Personally I'd rather have a 400whp car with instant spool at lower rpms than a 600whp beast that has an extremely short and mostly unusable powerband.
If you've got $20k to drop into a car then you can get there with either car. But IMO it would be a lot cheaper and easier to do it in an Evo. But you may prefer the STI interior and cockpit (I know I do) over the Evos. I used to have a 2.5L bugeye and Evo 8 but am currently down to just my Evo. With just a ported Evo 9 turbo and supporting mods it's just shy of 400whp....on E85. On 91 octane it's in the lower 300's. The performance mods including tune cost under $2k. That's a bargain to say the least. Swapping in a BBK Full or FP Red or Black and upping boost a lil would put me closer to 500whp (on E85). But those are stock-ish frame turbos that like high boost. Just going to a GT30R or 35R on E85 would adds the power you want but I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable running those on stock rods at that level. If the motor was built then you'd be gtg. 400whp in a 3200lb car (Evo 8/9) feels really great. I can't imagine what 600whp would be like! But whatever car you go with and whatever mod path you do take...plan it out in advance. On my previous Evo 8 I tried out a bunch of turbos and things before finding a setup I liked....wasted a ton of money. |
07-02-2010, 03:04 PM | #32 | |
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Here's my list of reasons why the 46G3 is better (especially the last version): 1. VE (the rest of the list really all leads up to this) 2. Inline engines can run quite a bit leaner afr's safely (lean=power). 3. 4g63 can run considerably more boost safely due to an iron block and because it has better knock resistance. 4. This is complete guess but I'd imagine the ecu and knock control on the EVO is much more tuner friendly. 5. Mivec on the intake and exhaust cams. 6. Equal length exhaust manifold and twin scroll turbo from the factory, it also has a reasonably sized turbo. It really doesn't take a genius to figure it out. We're comparing a 2.0l to a 2.5l in factory trim and they make basically the same power. And when one starts adding power to both engines we all know the 2.0l in the EVO gets the edge. As oppositelock said the 4g63 simply has better VE; therefore, it's a better engine. |
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07-02-2010, 03:26 PM | #33 | |
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Also the MIVEC is only on Evo 9s and is fairly useless past 500hp. I know this because I have a buddy whos Evo 9 MR is currently at Buschur Racing in Ohio getting a Built 2L engine, PT6262 (although he has a HTA86 on order), complete 1000hp fuel system, advanced ignition system, Shepherd Stg 3 trans and transfer case, and drag racing coilover setup. He should be turning about 700hp on 93 pump. He is running a 280 cam and they can't advance it very far and barely makes a difference in spool or power. Some people even disable it. |
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07-02-2010, 03:31 PM | #34 | |
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To the OP, if you are gunning for an Evo, stick with the 5spd. I would look for an SSL SE, or the version with the sunroof. |
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07-02-2010, 03:32 PM | #35 | |
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funny..... The fastest stock ECU EVO is an EVO 9 with mivec, it is also the fastest on drag radials. 8s on the stock ECU, 9.0 on drag radials http://forums.evolutionm.net/drag-ra...ck-ecu-8s.html http://forums.evolutionm.net/drag-ra...evo-8-9-a.html check out my post on the first thread, they made fun of the subies, but is funny because is true |
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07-02-2010, 08:36 PM | #36 | |
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you could build an is300 thats good for 10's or under 20K including the price of the car if you do everything yourself naw, september, let me know when you get the engine fixed and ill swing by |
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07-02-2010, 11:13 PM | #37 |
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It cracks me up with when people say you can't compare them. Seriously, WTF? They're both motors, both small displacement, both respond well to bigger turbochargers, both available in similarly sized-and-priced AWD cars... What's not to compare?
Yeah, there are big differences. That's what makes them interesting to compare. |
07-03-2010, 02:44 AM | #38 | ||
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07-03-2010, 10:12 AM | #39 |
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Along with the 4G63 having a better VE an inline 4 is also easier to work on IMO. I too prefer to build quality of the Subaru but since this is a 3rd car, I would go for performance and have a luxo cruiser as my daily.
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07-03-2010, 10:25 AM | #40 |
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07-03-2010, 03:07 PM | #41 |
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I love subarus and boxster engines, but I always tell people if I wanted to build a FAST high horsepower 4 cylinder it would Be a 4g63, to me that is the strongest 4 cylinder on the market (durable) And I see these evo guys pushin 500hp on stock internals, They dont break as much. You cant argue with a cast iron closed deck block. And you can wind them to 10krpm with the correct work. I think subaru make PERFECT 200-400hp well rounded quick machines. They turn well they launch they jump they are a blast. A 300hp subaru to me is alot more fun then a 600hp evo. If you looking for balls deep power then inline six is the way to go. But if your lookin for 500-650hp an evo will do it no problem with some pistons. 700hp plus get an inline 6. 2jz or rb
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07-03-2010, 04:37 PM | #42 | |
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07-03-2010, 07:22 PM | #43 | |
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(AMS drag car and time attack car, AL (Dynoflash), Buschur Racing, Curt Brown, Pruven Performance) http://www.sheptrans.com/transmissions/evo.htm |
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07-03-2010, 07:37 PM | #44 |
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Set up the Subaru right and don't chicken out on parts that matter. Head work and cams with good turbo setup and willing to push the high PSI and change MAP sensors and run good FMICs. Then have someone who can bring the MOST out of the setup; needs to know what he's doing.
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07-03-2010, 08:49 PM | #45 |
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The heads on a subaru doesn't flow well stock, the stock exhaust and intake manifolds suck. I've seen fast spool and big numbers out of stock 4g63s. They designed their heads(as well as IM and EM) so efficiently stock they make gobs of power quickly with small displacement.
Personally I'm coming to the conclusion that having an H4 is like having a rx7/rx8.. it's different and sounds different. But the Evo8/9/10 is and still is the better car even with less displacement. Corner weights can take care of the inline/transverse style engine layout. The Evo transmission 5spd are stronger than WRX 5 spd. If Mitsubishi started putting a variant of the 2.4L world engine in the Evo it will be number 1, unless your then choosing based on looks and sound of the car. |
07-03-2010, 10:09 PM | #46 |
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For 400-450whp goals I perfer the powerband of an EJ25. For the goals the OP is looking for I would get a bugeye and buy a built 2.2 and a 07+ sti 6spd and rest of the drivetrain; Brembos, interior, etc with the money you'd save.
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07-03-2010, 10:13 PM | #47 |
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Cars are all different my turbo honda has a 1.6 engine and makes 333whp at a scant 12psi, 91octane and cast pistons, been this way for nearly 3 years now, the ej motor simply dosent have the volumetric efficiency, also evo's all have factory twin scroll which helps. Suby is dual duty car but more well mannared and street oriented...
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07-03-2010, 10:32 PM | #48 | |
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07-04-2010, 04:28 AM | #49 | |
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07-04-2010, 11:56 AM | #50 | |
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Not similar, your friends DSM was pulling HARD on you in every run you got the jump til you keep letting off. If you both were in the same rpm sweet spot he would get you on the jump and pull away. In every video he was coming fast on you even this in car link I posted. Couple of things.. Your car is lighter Your gearing is tighter here is you 2 racing on the drag strip, he killed you on traps. But there is no comparison. Last edited by PAImportTuner; 07-04-2010 at 12:14 PM. |
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