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Old 02-11-2003, 02:39 PM   #251
AKGC8
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You kinda lost me there. A wing works by differences of pressure. It can be level like in the pictures above and still create lift or downforce. For dowforce, there is more surface area on the lower side of the wing. So the air travels faster across it, and faster moving air has lower pressure. So you get a high pressure zone on top and a low pressure zone on the bottom, causing downforce.

When the wing is at its steepest angle of attack though, what I said in my last post applies. The wing stalls and you get a lot of drag.
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Old 02-11-2003, 05:36 PM   #252
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Ok, let me re-explain, since technically speaking what I said before isn't exactly right. There are two components to aerodynamic force. Lift and Drag. Drag acts in the same direction of the air coming at the airfoil. If you look at a car driving forward, the drag will always be straight back level to the ground. It does not matter what the angle of attack of the airfoil is, it doesn't change the direction of drag, only the magnitude. Lift on the other hand will always act perpendicular to the air stream coming at the car. Negative lift is what we refer to as "downforce." This is what keeps the rear end of the car planted and dents the trunk on the 22B. Drag is what slows your car down and reduces top speed etc..., negative lift is what keeps your car on the road. Make sense now?

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Old 02-11-2003, 05:38 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eby
When the wing is at its steepest angle of attack though, what I said in my last post applies. The wing stalls and you get a lot of drag.
I highly doubt the 22B wing stalls. When a wing stalls you get almost no lift so it would be applying no force to the trunk. Therefore it would be useless to have such a setting on the spoiler. It would create a lot of drag though.

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Old 02-11-2003, 06:00 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC


I highly doubt the 22B wing stalls. When a wing stalls you get almost no lift so it would be applying no force to the trunk. Therefore it would be useless to have such a setting on the spoiler. It would create a lot of drag though.

JC
I'm pretty sure it would. The steeper angle of attack would work great for generating some downforce at low speeds(autocrosses for example). If you set it like that and went for a 150mph run though, stall, drag, leverage to the trunk and you've got a dent.
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Old 02-11-2003, 06:40 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC
Ok, let me re-explain, since technically speaking what I said before isn't exactly right. There are two components to aerodynamic force. Lift and Drag. Drag acts in the same direction of the air coming at the airfoil. If you look at a car driving forward, the drag will always be straight back level to the ground. It does not matter what the angle of attack of the airfoil is, it doesn't change the direction of drag, only the magnitude. Lift on the other hand will always act perpendicular to the air stream coming at the car. Negative lift is what we refer to as "downforce." This is what keeps the rear end of the car planted and dents the trunk on the 22B. Drag is what slows your car down and reduces top speed etc..., negative lift is what keeps your car on the road. Make sense now?

JC
Ok, sure. But, adjusting the STi wing to add downforce will create a large magnitude of drag. But, the drag on the wing will act on the bolts that connect it to the trunk, and if the force is strong enough, it will bend the trunk.

tipping the back end of the wing up will add drag, but also add downforce. Having it perpendicular to the ground at the minimum drag position will help smooth the turbulent flow off the roof, reducing some rear lift, but it's trading the drag for downforce that most large rear deck wings take advantage of.
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Old 02-11-2003, 06:54 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally posted by robmarch
Ok, sure. But, adjusting the STi wing to add downforce will create a large magnitude of drag. But, the drag on the wing will act on the bolts that connect it to the trunk, and if the force is strong enough, it will bend the trunk.

tipping the back end of the wing up will add drag, but also add downforce. Having it perpendicular to the ground at the minimum drag position will help smooth the turbulent flow off the roof, reducing some rear lift, but it's trading the drag for downforce that most large rear deck wings take advantage of.
I guess it depends on how it dents. I was assuming it was a straight down, but you are right if it's toward the rear it would be because of drag.

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Old 02-11-2003, 10:32 PM   #257
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All the pictures I have seen seem to show that the horizontal component of the wing has very little "angle of attack", i.e. it's at a 90 angle from a vertical off the ground. If this is true then for the wing to work it would require that there be a sufficient bulge underneath that horizontal component to increase the spead of the air underneath it enough to create a substantial downforce. Otherwise it would need a certain "angle of attack" to create enough drag, transfered through the rest of the wing, to create downforce. Just a thought... maybe someone who has seen it in person can detail the wing for us?
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Old 02-12-2003, 09:46 AM   #258
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nothonotus
All the pictures I have seen seem to show that the horizontal component of the wing has very little "angle of attack", i.e. it's at a 90 angle from a vertical off the ground. If this is true then for the wing to work it would require that there be a sufficient bulge underneath that horizontal component to increase the spead of the air underneath it enough to create a substantial downforce. Otherwise it would need a certain "angle of attack" to create enough drag, transfered through the rest of the wing, to create downforce. Just a thought... maybe someone who has seen it in person can detail the wing for us?
Yes, in the sense that most of us think about rear wings working. Some of the previous wings had adjustable angle of attack to increase the downforce as needed.

and...No, in that even a flat wing with very little angle of attack and no bulge underneath can still smooth the turbulence off the rear window area, reducing rear lift.

It looks pretty much the same in person as it does in the pictures, not much angle of attack, and didn't appear adjustable to me.
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Old 02-12-2003, 12:19 PM   #259
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Thanks, that helps pull it together in my mind.
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