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Old 04-27-2010, 06:30 PM   #1
tbortner
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Default Need info for a paper for school, women in motor sports

First off, I'm not sure which forum to post this in, and this was my best guess. I'm writing a gender and culture paper for my composition class, and I chose to cover women in motor sports and why women have just as good of a chance to be competitive in racing. I'm covering why physical size and strength aren't factors of success, how weight affects performance and handling, females who have been successful in racing (Danica Patrick, Michelle Mouton, Lella Lombardi, and Arlene Hiss), why women should be given a chance to race, and how woman drivers can be a benefit for sponsors, media coverage and ratings. I was wondering if anyone could lead me to some good, credible sources on the subject, but mainly any research on how weight affects the performance of a car in regards to lap time or quarter mile time or handling and things like that. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tyler
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:43 PM   #2
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lol.

The differences are subjective, there's no direct evidence that supports women being better/worse than male drivers. Its a male-dominated sport because its mostly males that are interested in the sport.

How are you judging success? Length of career? Number of wins? Top finishes?

and physical strength DOES play a factor in driving, believe it or not.
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:50 PM   #3
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Very true that it is subjective, but the point of the paper is also to persuade lol. I'm judging it on wins/good finishes in relation to men. I know you do need strength in driving as many drivers have workout routines they do, but women compete in the same classes of racing and are successful. I didn't say it above but ones crew and team who builds and services the car are also an important part in success, which I will touch on as well.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:05 PM   #4
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Muldowney
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Force_Hood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Female_NASCAR_drivers
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:10 PM   #5
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Thanks LastWS6. I'm trying to stay away from Wiki because of credibility, and I added a section on Ashley. Anyone else? I'm really looking for the weight and performance stats.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:21 PM   #6
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3 of the Force sisters are involved in competitive drag racing. Ashley, Courtney, and Brittany.

I met them a few years back when they came to my old work (Speedware Motorsports), even hotter in person.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:23 PM   #7
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there has been evidence and research done that suggests men have better coordination skills than women which plays a major role in racing. maybe you could switch around your argument?
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:31 PM   #8
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That's another good point subiee88, but plenty of men don't have the coordination to race either. It kind of goes both ways I guess.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:40 PM   #9
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Ask OT.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbortner View Post
First off, I'm not sure which forum to post this in, and this was my best guess. I'm writing a gender and culture paper for my composition class, and I chose to cover women in motor sports and why women have just as good of a chance to be competitive in racing. I'm covering why physical size and strength aren't factors of success, how weight affects performance and handling, females who have been successful in racing (Danica Patrick, Michelle Mouton, Lella Lombardi, and Arlene Hiss), why women should be given a chance to race, and how woman drivers can be a benefit for sponsors, media coverage and ratings. I was wondering if anyone could lead me to some good, credible sources on the subject, but mainly any research on how weight affects the performance of a car in regards to lap time or quarter mile time or handling and things like that. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tyler
For starters most would not be considered as "racers" as it has been proven you don't need much skill to push and accelerator and go in a straight line down a short strip. Next you claim Danica Patrick as a "success".. when pretty much everyone knows it is her look and finaical backing that has kept her going...if she had a huge mole on her face she would not be in the sport simple as that. While their size is a huge advantage, most agree it is short term decision making that hurts women along with lower self esteem. Don't get me wrong.. women can race, sabine schmitz is a good example, problem is she just lacks that extra 10%...which most women find hard to maintain.

Your best bet would be to hit up the carting forums... plenty of girls jumped into the sport.. but I think I read somewhere that if you had the same amount of starters split 50/50 your outcome would be 70/30 in favor of the boys...

And physical strength play alot in real "racing" ..i.e. not drag racing where they sometimes have to shoehorn the "racers" into their cars.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:07 PM   #11
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^^^^ Most people agree that women are bad at short term decisions making and have low self esteem???? Where on earth did you find that "data"???

Who decided that drag racers are not racers? And none of these are drag racers anyway: Michelle Mouton, Lella Lombardi, and Arlene Hiss.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
I'm really looking for the weight and performance stats.
I think you're going down the wrong path. Suggesting that any driver has an advantage by being a few pounds lighter seems unrealistic. Many race cars are ballasted to reach minimum weight with driver, so it doesn't matter.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:42 PM   #13
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*cough cough* Subie Gal *cough cough*
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:44 PM   #14
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That's another good point subiee88, but plenty of men don't have the coordination to race either. It kind of goes both ways I guess.
Gender distinctions are a very touchy topic. Not because of lack of scientific data, but mostly because of a hysterical chorus which whines the second one DARES attributing gender differences - which then someone always twists as woman bashing. Be careful then in how you word it.

First, one needs to distinguish the mean/average and the standart deviation (extremes). I'm just pointing it out as you (not criticizing here) used the typical honey butter calming down argument which carries no statistical value. Extremes in both genders always pretty much overlap: the (insert adjective)est man will be similarly (insert same adjective)est as the woman, and so you have plenty of men who cant race, same as plenty of women. This is utterly useless info, as what matters is the mean. On average men ARE stronger than woman, and on average there IS a coordination, or spatial form imagining, or multitasking ability difference in between genders.

Now, does it impact motorsports? Very difficult to prove. Sure you have motor/brain skills which decide on a winning driver, but intuitively I don't think its the major factor.

The problem is that you have a tremendous (arguably dominant) social factor. Less women than men are interested in motorsports. Less of them try doing it. Less of them get excited about other women doing motorsports. That's correlated to car things being perceived as inherent to the male specie. This in turn was propagated in history, some cultures still frown upon women driving. Women drivers are subject to jokes. Dumb? yes. But its merely a symptom of a social perception. So yes, there is less female sucessful drivers per total nr of females in the US as opposed to their male counterpart. But if you narrow down to the relative percentages: ratios of winning women per total nr of racing women vs ratio of winning men per total nr of driving men? No idea. Then factor in how childbearing influenced women's racing careers.

Confused enough? Drown in psychological differences in between genders. Men are more willing to take risks, as we're simply wired to have a different risk assessment perception, i.e. we're more prone to making suicidally dumb decisions. Maybe blame genetics, as biologically a mother with a baby is more precious than some male specimen whose sole role was to give ONE remotely useful sperm cell and to bring dead meat for food. Insurance companies reflect that in the premiums. Single male? $$$. Maried male? $$. Woman? $. Statistically more men take risks, more men die, but those who don't, reach higher and further. I'll shut up now

Oh, I'd recommend the book (lightweight, it's not filled with neurological analysis) Brain Sex: The Real Difference Between Men and Women. a fascinating read. PM Subiegal, she probably has a LOT to say.

Last edited by Bluefoton; 04-27-2010 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:55 AM   #15
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^^^^ Most people agree that women are bad at short term decisions making and have low self esteem???? Where on earth did you find that "data"???

Who decided that drag racers are not racers? And none of these are drag racers anyway: Michelle Mouton, Lella Lombardi, and Arlene Hiss.
I was referring to the other names people had posted. Obviously you are not going to find much "data" on this subject at all.

As for who decided drag racers are not racers, well you can start with the FIA,SCCA,NASA ..you name it. Thats whey the have a seperate license system.

You can NOT compare a GT race driver to a Drag racer..mentally or physically. As for the short term decision making, it has been said over and over in journals that women tend to analize input a bit more..this can result in delayed reaction time. Same goes for emotional control...i.e.. self esteem.

Believe me i'm all for a women driver in F1... so far alot have tried and never seem to make it past a national level.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Gender distinctions are a very touchy topic. Not because of lack of scientific data, but mostly because of a hysterical chorus which whines the second one DARES attributing gender differences - which then someone always twists as woman bashing. Be careful then in how you word it.

First, one needs to distinguish the mean/average and the standart deviation (extremes). I'm just pointing it out as you (not criticizing here) used the typical honey butter calming down argument which carries no statistical value. Extremes in both genders always pretty much overlap: the (insert adjective)est man will be similarly (insert same adjective)est as the woman, and so you have plenty of men who cant race, same as plenty of women. This is utterly useless info, as what matters is the mean. On average men ARE stronger than woman, and on average there IS a coordination, or spatial form imagining, or multitasking ability difference in between genders.

Now, does it impact motorsports? Very difficult to prove. Sure you have motor/brain skills which decide on a winning driver, but intuitively I don't think its the major factor.

The problem is that you have a tremendous (arguably dominant) social factor. Less women than men are interested in motorsports. Less of them try doing it. Less of them get excited about other women doing motorsports. That's correlated to car things being perceived as inherent to the male specie. This in turn was propagated in history, some cultures still frown upon women driving. Women drivers are subject to jokes. Dumb? yes. But its merely a symptom of a social perception. So yes, there is less female sucessful drivers per total nr of females in the US as opposed to their male counterpart. But if you narrow down to the relative percentages: ratios of winning women per total nr of racing women vs ratio of winning men per total nr of driving men? No idea. Then factor in how childbearing influenced women's racing careers.

Confused enough? Drown in psychological differences in between genders. Men are more willing to take risks, as we're simply wired to have a different risk assessment perception, i.e. we're more prone to making suicidally dumb decisions. Maybe blame genetics, as biologically a mother with a baby is more precious than some male specimen whose sole role was to give ONE remotely useful sperm cell and to bring dead meat for food. Insurance companies reflect that in the premiums. Single male? $$$. Maried male? $$. Woman? $. Statistically more men take risks, more men die, but those who don't, reach higher and further. I'll shut up now

Oh, I'd recommend the book (lightweight, it's not filled with neurological analysis) Brain Sex: The Real Difference Between Men and Women. a fascinating read. PM Subiegal, she probably has a LOT to say.
I would say your pretty spot on. It's overall life grooming that plays a large part. I always laugh when my wife says men are more competitive then women.. look around you fellas. I know a ton of guys that could go to the store in nothing but some dirty shorts and a ugly shirt, try getting a girl to do this...the fashion industry is very cut throat.. and most involve women.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:44 AM   #17
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<- Im a girl and I think motorsports especially is a great place for women to get noticed. Because its such a rare thing. I had someone run up to me at the track and ask to take my picture just because "girls racing at the track are cool." I'm not by any means a racer YET and I've only started on the track just recently, but a girl will always stand out in motorsports until we get more gals out there!

Plus, theres a reason I have a "You've just been passed by a girl" sticker on my car. I think its the whole macho guy complex that irks everyone I fly by
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:53 AM   #18
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<- Im a girl and I think motorsports especially is a great place for women to get noticed. Because its such a rare thing. I had someone run up to me at the track and ask to take my picture just because "girls racing at the track are cool." I'm not by any means a racer YET and I've only started on the track just recently, but a girl will always stand out in motorsports until we get more gals out there!

Plus, theres a reason I have a "You've just been passed by a girl" sticker on my car. I think its the whole macho guy complex that irks everyone I fly by
by you putting that sticker on your car you are making our point..
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:00 AM   #19
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by you putting that sticker on your car you are making our point..
Which would be... what? Guys are more competitive and don't like losing, especially to the opposite sex?
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:04 AM   #20
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Which would be... what? Guys are more competitive and don't like losing, especially to the opposite sex?
No, that girls are a lower standard.

it's no different then me putting a sticker on my car that say's you just got passed by a fat white guy.

It suggests that fat white guys are less then non fat white guys.


Plus I think girls are far more competitive... go to your local mall and turn your brain on and watch.. thats called competition.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:07 AM   #21
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No, that girls are a lower standard.
Very good point.

Guess it doesn't help my driving any more that I'm a blonde too? That all goes back to stereotyping. Yeah yeah its not right... but as humans, we all do it to some extent or another.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:09 AM   #22
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Plus I think girls are far more competitive...
By far yes. Look at a guy fist fight, they'll just try to knock each other out etc etc. Girl fight however? ya think they call it a cat fight for nothing? Its UGLY
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:28 AM   #23
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We're used to solving problems with fists, girls use more sophisticated methods. Look at high school. If Viperguy and I have a problem, it will end up with a few badly thrown punches, and 2 days later we'll be buddies again. Girls are able to psychologically ostracize or destroy another girl in a far more subtle and cunning way...

But yes our ego plays a HUGE role. There's a reason why the best way for a woman to make a guy do something is to claim he's not able to do it / claim he's too weak to do it / say you will ask the neighbour instead. AFAIK there is no direct eye-to-foot nerve connection but my foot WILL subconsciously step on the gas if I see a blondie with the said sticker pass me. Gee, even writing that got me all pumped up already!
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:52 AM   #24
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We're used to solving problems with fists, girls use more sophisticated methods. Look at high school. If Viperguy and I have a problem, it will end up with a few badly thrown punches, and 2 days later we'll be buddies again. Girls are able to psychologically ostracize or destroy another girl in a far more subtle and cunning way...

But yes our ego plays a HUGE role. There's a reason why the best way for a woman to make a guy do something is to claim he's not able to do it / claim he's too weak to do it / say you will ask the neighbour instead. AFAIK there is no direct eye-to-foot nerve connection but my foot WILL subconsciously step on the gas if I see a blondie with the said sticker pass me. Gee, even writing that got me all pumped up already!
Oh...alot of the same can be said about the opposite.. Over the years I have learned how to get my wife to clean or finish something..
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:46 AM   #25
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Drag Racing = bowling of motorsport
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