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03-27-2005, 05:15 AM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 31534
Join Date: Jan 2003
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BAIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:2005 WRX Wagon Blue |
How much gain with Uppipe, downpipe and stock exhaust
I have read that an uppipe and downpipe are good for 30 hp, but I don't know if that's with an aftermarket exhaust or stock exhaust. I just want to stay very basic on the mods, and this sounds like a good 1st step. Can anyone give some input? Thanks.
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03-27-2005, 05:27 AM | #2 |
Scooby Guru
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yes..i believe they are one of the 1st step that you might want to change if you want to mod your car...catback,dp/TBE,upipe..but they dont put 30hp on your engine right away..i believe you still have to tune ur engine with EM's to get the best out of it...
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03-27-2005, 12:12 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 19057
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MWSOC
Location: The Lost Valley, Detroit, MI
Vehicle:2002 WRX & Blue Ford & '72 CB350 |
30hp is probably a bit optimistic. UP/DN w/ stock exaust is a good place to start and provides immediate gains w/ low cost and high reliability.
nick |
03-27-2005, 01:46 PM | #4 |
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Vehicle:2006 Subaru STi 1989 BMW 325is |
add an Accessport to that and you have stage 2, thats 285 HP, at the crank that is...
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03-27-2005, 02:16 PM | #5 | |
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03-28-2005, 02:03 AM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 31534
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region:
BAIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:2005 WRX Wagon Blue |
ok thanks for the input. i'm going for the most possible reliability, i don't want to mess with the electronics. my idea is to install a uppipe, downpipe and MBC, maybe 16-17psi. what i am really looking for is more immediate & stronger engine response.
uppipe and downpipe look like something i could secretly swap out when in change the oil. my fiance and i share this car, so i want to keep it simple. |
03-28-2005, 02:21 AM | #7 |
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SWIC
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Vehicle:2005 WRX Wagon White |
do a search on MBC's, they dont work to well on these cares, unless tuned for.
Part throttle full boost (PTFB) is the problem with MBC's I have heard that the EBC's, like APEXi AVC-r, will work. |
03-28-2005, 05:05 AM | #8 | |
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03-28-2005, 07:28 AM | #9 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69663
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TXIC
Location: Midland, TX
Vehicle:2004 WRX Java Black Pearl |
What is your reason for not wanting to mess with electronics? I'm currently trying to figure out my first engine mod. I've already gotten to a point where I'm happy with the suspension and I'm ready for more power.
From what I've read (see stickies) about detonation and all that closed loop...whatever, I don't understand it. All I know is that det.=bad, and that engine managment can fix it. So that is where I would go first. If you want something to be secretive, there's nothing more so than COBBs AP. You plug it in to your OBDII port and let it sit for 10 minutes. BAM, more HP, no detonation, longer lasting engine. Of course if you have an 02-03 you don't have to worry about the detonation. As far as an up/dp being secretive. I think it's the uppipe that is a hassle. Besides that, it'll take you longer than an average oil change, but an average girl won't notice. You'll also have extra parts comming in and left over when you're finished. Plus your exhaust will be alittle louder, how much depends on whether you get catted or not. You can always tell her the AP is an OBDII code reader. I will be doing the whole shebang, TBE, UP, AP. I'm excited. Hope this helps. -Danny Quote:
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03-28-2005, 09:24 AM | #10 |
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The up/down will sound different. And take as long as 5-6 oil changes. (or more) Go AP Stg. 1. Very stealthy. Easy Install. Easily removed.
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03-28-2005, 10:10 AM | #11 |
Scooby Newbie
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damn i didnt know that about the MBC. i'm still learning about these cars. i had 2 dsm's back in the day, it's nice to have awd turbo again.
i guess im leaning for no electronics because i went deep into that route on my dsm's (hks vpc etc.) and realized the simple first mods are the best bang for the buck. i gotta find out what this detonation stuff is all about. we just picked up our '05 wagon this weekend. someone mentioned 'closed loop' and i guess they're referring to the fuel system. the window sticker on the '05 said it has a fuel return system. |
03-28-2005, 10:51 AM | #12 |
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That maybe true, but EM is by far the stealthiest of these mods, and AP the easiest way of going about it. As far as gains go, you may get better gains with up/dp, but AP is what best fits your stated needs. This, like so many other things with cars, all depends on what you want. Everything is a gain and a sacrifice. Best hp gain could be tattooing your name on the hood of the car with a sawzall, but it'd be hard to do and really noticable. Find out which is more important to you, the ease of installation/stealth, or the performance gains.
From what I read they're about equal. Find AP data here: AccessPort -Danny |
03-28-2005, 10:55 AM | #13 |
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There are a few things that are weird about the Scooby...
1. Leave the airbox and filter alone, period, don't touch it! 2. Don't mess with MBC or EVC's, leave the boost alone. Suggested mod stages (purely from research)... 1. Up-pipe 2. AccessPort stage 1 (or UTEC if you wanna' be a tuner) 3. TBE, Shorty DP, DP, CBE, ABE, your choice. Once you get a DP you can go Cobb Stage 2, but not before. Many people leave the stock mid-pipe section because of the resonator, just depends on how loud you want your car. If you decide to go with a shorty DP, it's a good idea to get a high-flow 3rd cat, the stock cat is very restrictive. UP, DP, ABE + Cobb Stage 2 = 40-50HP 30-40TQ (at the crank) |
03-28-2005, 10:56 AM | #14 |
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edit: /\/\/\/\
ill throw in up/down/exaust mods above will give you ~10 whp basicly louder stock like performance EM should be your first mod |
03-28-2005, 11:10 AM | #15 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 31534
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BAIC
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Vehicle:2005 WRX Wagon Blue |
actually another main reason for me originally not wanting to go the electronic route is because im not going to install any gauges. not sure if i really want to mess around without a boost and egt gauge..
anyway, that cobb stage 1 could be the ticket. i'll have to search for other people' s experiences before i go for it. looks like i could reflash my ecu and leave it. damn these cars rock. |
03-28-2005, 11:23 AM | #16 |
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LOL 16-17 PSI?? Good luck with the longevity of your car. I had a MBC on my car for a while and would never do it again. EM isn't "messing" with electronics, btw, it's taking advantage of your car in a GOOD way and optimizing performance that's been locked away by stock settings!
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03-28-2005, 11:49 AM | #17 |
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I would stay away from MBC without proper EM.
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03-28-2005, 12:00 PM | #18 |
Scooby Specialist
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PLUS I actually got/get better gas mileage on AP stg1 and 2 than when it was stock. Casually noted 10-25 more miles per tank. Actually think I drive more aggressively when the car feels more robust.
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03-28-2005, 12:51 PM | #19 |
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There is a serious downside to Cobb stage 1....you are satisfied with it only for a short while, then start looking into stage 2, 2.5 and before yoy know it you think you should have just bought an Sti or did an Sti engines/trans transplant.
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03-28-2005, 01:40 PM | #20 | |
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03-28-2005, 01:50 PM | #21 | |
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03-28-2005, 03:36 PM | #22 | |
Scooby Newbie
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Vehicle:2005 WRX Wagon Blue |
yeah, i still got a lot to learn about subarus. i was running anywhere from 15-22 psi on my old dsms - but then again i was getting like 12 MPG too. these subarus seem to do a lot more with less boost.
just wondering what EM means. me thinks it's engine managment? or maybe electronic measures. now that i've been reading about the different re-flash products, it seems like the best way to go after i get the suspension sorted. Quote:
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03-28-2005, 05:05 PM | #23 |
Scooby Newbie
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Location: Jacksonville, NC
Vehicle:02 WRXwag, Evo IX Both Vishnu Tuned |
On a Dynojet the wrx typically puts down 189whp and 180 ft-lbs stock. With just a Vishnu 321 uppipe and Scooby Sport Downpipe I put down 207 whp and around 211 ft-lbs (before the tune). Thats just an 18 hp gain... but it felt good. Then Shiv Pathek tuned my baby and he gave me 238 whp and 241 ft-lbs at 16.5psi. Thats a gain of 49 hp and 61 ft-lbs and all that on the stock turbo and intercooler and the 3rd cat in place. Putting the parts on first was good for me, I learned a little about my car and I was glad to do it. Tuning the car was great, and to have a top tuner do it is well worth it.
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03-28-2005, 05:16 PM | #24 |
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If you don't want to spend a lot of money then I'd go with the up/down then go with the AP (just like everyone else said). Be careful though... EVERYONE says that they're only going to do an up/down but, BANG!! STAGE 4 looks mighty fine... -Gene
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03-28-2005, 05:19 PM | #25 | |
Scooby Specialist
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