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Old 02-12-2005, 09:25 PM   #1
CarterMarkham
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Default transfer power from wheels that slip to wheels that grip?

I own a 95 Legacy LS AWD. I purposely got stuck in the snow last night and noticed that front left was spinning and right rear was spinning, the other 2 werent doing anything. These things dont have LSD? Is the AWD system working correctly?
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Old 02-12-2005, 10:27 PM   #2
express_wagon
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you got opens my friend
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:19 PM   #3
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yup you got open diffs, so deep snow, and you will get stuck, do you have snow tires?

Jay
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDade
yup you got open diffs, so deep snow, and you will get stuck, do you have snow tires?

Jay
studded snow tires my friend.

knowing this makes me sad. What about the newer ones?
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Old 02-13-2005, 12:43 AM   #5
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wrxs and stis have limited slips all around, but i have hear stories of people geting stuck in wrxs. I am not sure about stis however living in sunny houston .
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Old 02-13-2005, 10:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen
wrxs and stis have limited slips all around, but i have hear stories of people geting stuck in wrxs. I am not sure about stis however living in sunny houston .
^
Don't think so. I think the STis have limited all around ("Sure Trac" in the front, mechanical in the back). I think WRXs only have LSD on the rear, with an open diff in the front.

MAK
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Old 02-13-2005, 10:26 AM   #7
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2000 - 2001 RSs also have rear LSD. as well as All WRX's and I think MAK is correct about the STi. 91-94 Legacy sports sedans have rear LSD's as well.

You must have gotten some really deep snow, cause I have never gotten stuck in any of my subarus and all but one have had open diffs, and non-studded snows.

Are you sure you didnt get high centered

Jay
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Old 02-13-2005, 11:03 AM   #8
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you can get stuck in anything, it depends how smart you are
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Old 02-13-2005, 11:28 AM   #9
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i have an 00 RS and i have gotten stuck it about 9" of snow. with out snow tires.
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Old 02-13-2005, 11:50 AM   #10
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like I said, I got stuck on purpose on a slop in 14 inches of snow.
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Old 02-13-2005, 11:20 PM   #11
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Does the current 05 legacy gt 5 speed have an open front diff and a limited slip rear, or open on front and rear?
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Old 02-14-2005, 10:04 AM   #12
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Yes, the 05 Legacy GTs have rear LSDs. With the exception of the STi, all Subies have open front diffs.

A rear LSD can make driving on slick roads even trickier for the average driver. With an open rear diff, the rear end of the car is much more likely to track properly, as when one rear wheel looses traction from too much power, the other is likely to remain planted.
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Old 02-14-2005, 10:52 AM   #13
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/\

and noone believes me when I say "rear LSD = be careful in rain"

LSD makes it harder to break traction, but when that does happen, both wheels break, so your rear end is sliding. Not too much of an issue on the scoob because of AWD (less power going to rear), but I know the firebird is downright scary.

Sidenote, i've never gotten stuck in my scoob. Been through northern michigan winter (albeit, a VERY light winter this year) and no getting stuck.
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Old 02-14-2005, 11:17 AM   #14
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I got my non LSD having RS stuck on some snow a few weeks ago, and the rear wheels weren't moving at all. I was high centered on a bank a bit, but I don't think the rear weels moved at all throughout the entire process of getting it out.
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Old 02-14-2005, 11:21 AM   #15
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So if i'm parking on an icy slope, which wheels do i want on the gravel and which do i stick on the ice patch or does it not really matter?
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Old 02-14-2005, 12:16 PM   #16
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Preferably two on the same axle... and of those.. preferably the fronts.
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Old 02-14-2005, 12:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterMarkham
I own a 95 Legacy LS AWD. I purposely got stuck in the snow last night and noticed that front left was spinning and right rear was spinning, the other 2 werent doing anything. These things dont have LSD? Is the AWD system working correctly?
It only has a center LSD, so it is more like transfering tq to the "axle" that slips and not "wheels".


BTW, you could try to left-foot-brake to keep the wheels with no traction from spinning, thus sending tq back to the wheels with grip

...its an old 4x4 trick if you have open diffs.
The key is to apply enough brake for the spinning wheels to send enough tq back while the ones with grip can still turn.
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Old 02-14-2005, 12:27 PM   #18
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yea, we dont have the same AWD like a Hummer, Audi Quattro, BMW X-drive, Jeep Quadra Drive, etc. For them if one wheel gets traction 100% of the torque will be diverted, however for us, it wont. if u put 3 wheels on ice, and one on the road our cars wont move, the others will. We are one level below them in terms of AWD ability.

But we do have very good AWD, just not as good.
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Old 02-14-2005, 12:30 PM   #19
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only for the open diff cars. If you put 3 wheels of a STi on ice and one on the road, it'll move. (granted, that's a different AWD system).

On the 5mt's, with a rear LSD, you can have both front wheels, and one rear wheel on ice and have it move still. It's just easier to put all 4 on ice and use very little throttle to get you back on the road.
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Old 02-14-2005, 12:37 PM   #20
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I got my '99 2.5RS stuck twice last winter, both times from lack of ground clearance. This winter I figured I'd make it at least a little bit better, so I swapped out my open rear differential for a '00RS Viscous Coupling LSD. Wow, what a difference! The car now handles a lot more like a rear wheel drive car; I can bring the back end around on slick corners with a quick jab of the throttle and I can also make it spin on the same spot doing donuts. I wouldn't say it is more dangerous / difficult to drive in snow though; sure, if you do something stupid with the throttle the back end might get a little more squirrely, but then again with open differentials if two tires end up in slush pushing the gas will push you deeper into the slush, so neither option is ideal.
I like the rear LSD so much that I'm currently looking for a front LSD solution
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Old 02-14-2005, 12:58 PM   #21
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What would you have to do to get a LSD in the front for an 05 legacy gt or a wrx? The front diff is part of the transmission no?
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Old 02-14-2005, 01:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrcoffee-atl
What would you have to do to get a LSD in the front for an 05 legacy gt or a wrx? The front diff is part of the transmission no?
Yeah, you'd have to drop the tranny, disassemble it, install the LSD, then put everything back together.

but companies do make a front LSD.
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Old 02-14-2005, 01:24 PM   #23
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Yea, i was checking out http://www.phantomgrip.com/ who seems to make one such product. I've heard it causes understeer if you replace the stock open diff with a LSD. Any truth to that?

If i were to replace the legacy 5 speed with, say, an STi 6 speed, that would replace both the center and front differentials right? It is my understanding that they are both encased in the transmission case but I don't really know for sure. Would I then get a DCCD if i used the STi transmission?

Not that i'm going to do any of this...but the thought of being able is kinda cool. A legacy with a 6 speed and a DCCD...heh
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Old 02-14-2005, 01:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrcoffee-atl
...I've heard it causes understeer if you replace the stock open diff with a LSD. Any truth to that?

If i were to replace the legacy 5 speed with, say, an STi 6 speed, that would replace both the center and front differentials right? It is my understanding that they are both encased in the transmission case but I don't really know for sure. Would I then get a DCCD if i used the STi transmission?...
Yes, it can cause understeer and other drivability issues under certain conditions. The more LSD's you add to an AWD system the more difficult it gets to tune all of them to work efficiently and improve overall handling. The STi was obviously developed with this in mind and the components are created to complement each other, but I can't say for sure how it would effect the Legacy.

You would get the front and center LSDs with the 6-speed, but I believe the DCCD would only support "manual" mode without all the sensors and an ECU that can process everything in "auto" mode. There is a non-DCCD version of the 6-speed which might be a better solution for your case.
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Old 02-14-2005, 04:32 PM   #25
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I got stuck through a corner of snow..seemed like about 10" or so. At first a few tires were spinning and I wasn't going anywhere..then used the turbo power getting up to about 5k rpms and the torque ripped me out.
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