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Old 04-06-2013, 12:26 PM   #151
Concillian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmp6889928 View Post
I didn't read this entire thread but has anyone looked at the Wilwood (120-11135) caliper as a possibility for an upgrade? Over on LGT, we've been using that upgrade along with brackets available from brakewswap.com and have been having great luck. The calipers are 4 pot with 1.75" pistons and are aluminum. INCREDIBLY light. Not too expensive either and come with stainless hose. Take a look at Jegs or Summit, but I may be putting a group buy together on LGT and if so, I'll also post it here too.

Oh, and by the way, these do fit on stock diameter/thickness LGT rotors which I read in the thread that you are considering for your upgrade.

The brackets are GORGEOUS....fantastic work ! ! I wonder if they would work with the Wilwoods?
What rotor are you using with your caliper?

I highly doubt these use the same mount points and offsets as the z32 caliper.
My opinion is that 120-11135 is too much front torque for an already front biased setup. 1.75" pistons are just plain too big for any rotor we'd be using. 120-11132 would be a more appropriate piston size for the same thickness rotor. The z32 & Subaru 4-pot calipers use 1.591" pistons, 120-11132 is 1.62". This is a minimal difference and should keep the F / R torque bias in a more desirable place.

People were marketing similar kits using the flimsier Dynalite caliper years ago, and I think this gave a bit of a bad taste. I believe it was also using a fairly thin rotor, so it wasn't much of an upgrade over stock rotors. The thing about Wilwood setups is Wilwood sells some largely street kits, but otherwise they're just providing the components... they give you enough rope to make a noose... and that's just what some vendors made with the Dynalite kits. There are some excellent Wilwood setups, it only takes one vendor cutting the wrong corner, and some people start associating that performance with the brand, rather than the vendor that put together a poorly performing setup.

The forged superlite is a better caliper for sure, and probably works much better, but as I said, I'd get the 11132 instead for the same rotor thickness. If there was a bracket and hat available for these to work with the Wilwood 1.25" rotors, it would be very comparable to the z32 setup being put together here. The z32 isn't too expensive when ordered as a rebuild, and it's available (though in pretty limited quantities these days) in an aluminum version. They aren't that heavy a caliper. The nice thing about them is the pads are common with 06-07 WRX so compounds are things people have experience with, rather than having to learn the Wilwood system. z32 pad shape has Carbotech, Porterfield, Pagid, just about any compound you want, from tame to exotic.

One very nice thing about Wilwood, the consumable costs are among the lowest around, but often require special hats be fabricated. So rings are cheap, but getting the right hats or caliper adapter is not something your average NASIOC member is capable of doing themselves.
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Last edited by Concillian; 04-06-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:22 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
What rotor are you using with your caliper?

I highly doubt these use the same mount points and offsets as the z32 caliper.
My opinion is that 120-11135 is too much front torque for an already front biased setup. 1.75" pistons are just plain too big for any rotor we'd be using. 120-11132 would be a more appropriate piston size for the same thickness rotor. The z32 & Subaru 4-pot calipers use 1.591" pistons, 120-11132 is 1.62". This is a minimal difference and should keep the F / R torque bias in a more desirable place.

People were marketing similar kits using the flimsier Dynalite caliper years ago, and I think this gave a bit of a bad taste. I believe it was also using a fairly thin rotor, so it wasn't much of an upgrade over stock rotors. The thing about Wilwood setups is Wilwood sells some largely street kits, but otherwise they're just providing the components... they give you enough rope to make a noose... and that's just what some vendors made with the Dynalite kits. There are some excellent Wilwood setups, it only takes one vendor cutting the wrong corner, and some people start associating that performance with the brand, rather than the vendor that put together a poorly performing setup.

The forged superlite is a better caliper for sure, and probably works much better, but as I said, I'd get the 11132 instead for the same rotor thickness. If there was a bracket and hat available for these to work with the Wilwood 1.25" rotors, it would be very comparable to the z32 setup being put together here. The z32 isn't too expensive when ordered as a rebuild, and it's available (though in pretty limited quantities these days) in an aluminum version. They aren't that heavy a caliper. The nice thing about them is the pads are common with 06-07 WRX so compounds are things people have experience with, rather than having to learn the Wilwood system. z32 pad shape has Carbotech, Porterfield, Pagid, just about any compound you want, from tame to exotic.

One very nice thing about Wilwood, the consumable costs are among the lowest around, but often require special hats be fabricated. So rings are cheap, but getting the right hats or caliper adapter is not something your average NASIOC member is capable of doing themselves.
These will fit over the stock LGT rotor of any manufacturer (I run the Centric Cryo rotors front and rear) which is a good, solid rotor. On the LGT, the 11135 is, at least in my opinion, the better choice for the heavier car. Several are using the 11132 on their LGT and really like them, but for track use, the larger piston will cool a little bit better, so that's how I'm going to run it.
For Impreza based cars, which are lighter, and shorter, I agree about the smaller piston size (1.62") because of a bit less clamping power. Take a look at the brakeswap.com (http://brakeswap.rpmware.com/brakesw...i-1681323.aspx ) bracket kit and see if this would work in your application. I've not seen it as of yet in person but it looks substantial in the photos and the people that have used it, have said that it's very nicely made.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:21 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by jmp6889928 View Post
These will fit over the stock LGT rotor of any manufacturer (I run the Centric Cryo rotors front and rear) which is a good, solid rotor. On the LGT, the 11135 is, at least in my opinion, the better choice for the heavier car. Several are using the 11132 on their LGT and really like them, but for track use, the larger piston will cool a little bit better, so that's how I'm going to run it.
For Impreza based cars, which are lighter, and shorter, I agree about the smaller piston size (1.62") because of a bit less clamping power.

It is a very interesting kit that would serve a very similar purpose to the z32 kit (inexpensive street / weekend warrior brake kit for 5x100) Coupled with ducting up front, it shouldn't chew through rotors and wheel bearings nearly as badly as the WRXs on 294mm rotors do. I feel like the LGT wide but not huge diameter rotors are the right way to go on such a setup, but don't have any track experience with it.

I disagree with you on the 11135 being a good choice regardless of whether you're installing on a LGT or WRX. Even the page you linked suggested the 11132 caliper. Note that I came to that conclusion before I saw the link. It was from a completely independent design analysis that I ended up with the same conclusion. That's not a coincidence... the 11132 is the correct piston size for the application. From a design standpoint, I expect that the 11135 will result in increased stopping distances when compared to the 11132, the KNS bracket / z32 or the stock LGT caliper configurations. Those 3 are all in a similar design space, while the 11135 is in a design space that theoretically will result in worse stopping performance than the other options due to too much front brake torque that will cause the fronts to lock first. Not only does this result in longer stopping distance, but because the fronts are more heavily biased, they will take up even more total heat... which is pretty much the exact opposite of what you want.

Last edited by Concillian; 04-06-2013 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:30 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
It is a very interesting kit that would serve a very similar purpose to the z32 kit (inexpensive street / weekend warrior brake kit for 5x100) Coupled with ducting up front, it shouldn't chew through rotors and wheel bearings nearly as badly as the WRXs on 294mm rotors do. I feel like the LGT wide but not huge diameter rotors are the right way to go on such a setup, but don't have any track experience with it.

I disagree with you on the 11135 being a good choice. Even the page you linked suggested the 11132 caliper with smaller pistons. Note that I came to that conclusion completely independently. That's not a coincidence. You want the right size pistons. From a design standpoint, I expect that the 11135 will result in increased stopping distances when compared to the 11132, the KNS bracket / z32 or the stock LGT caliper configurations. Those 3 are all in a similar design space, while the 11135 is in a design space that theoretically will result in worse stopping performance than the other three.
You may be right. The one thing that I do like is the availability of many different pads that fit that particular Wilwood caliper configuration. Quite a few companies-Hawk, Carbotech, Porterfield, Wilwood-make different pads so it's like anything else, it will be an experiment. Hopefully not an experiment in futility as it still is expensive enough when you figure in the brackets, the calipers, and the pads.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:19 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
It is a very interesting kit that would serve a very similar purpose to the z32 kit (inexpensive street / weekend warrior brake kit for 5x100) Coupled with ducting up front, it shouldn't chew through rotors and wheel bearings nearly as badly as the WRXs on 294mm rotors do. I feel like the LGT wide but not huge diameter rotors are the right way to go on such a setup, but don't have any track experience with it.

I disagree with you on the 11135 being a good choice regardless of whether you're installing on a LGT or WRX. Even the page you linked suggested the 11132 caliper. Note that I came to that conclusion before I saw the link. It was from a completely independent design analysis that I ended up with the same conclusion. That's not a coincidence... the 11132 is the correct piston size for the application. From a design standpoint, I expect that the 11135 will result in increased stopping distances when compared to the 11132, the KNS bracket / z32 or the stock LGT caliper configurations. Those 3 are all in a similar design space, while the 11135 is in a design space that theoretically will result in worse stopping performance than the other options due to too much front brake torque that will cause the fronts to lock first. Not only does this result in longer stopping distance, but because the fronts are more heavily biased, they will take up even more total heat... which is pretty much the exact opposite of what you want.
What is the OEM brake bias? How does the dias affect braking in more than just straight line terms? I had always thought that there should be more bias towards the front so the rear end was more stable.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:36 AM   #156
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We are working on a WW setup using the SL caliper and a 325 x 32 2 piece rotor made from a DBA rotor ring and our hat/bracket.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:26 PM   #157
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We are working on a WW setup using the SL caliper and a 325 x 32 2 piece rotor made from a DBA rotor ring and our hat/bracket.
This thread keeps getting better!
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:12 PM   #158
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^^^^^What he said. I keep flashing back to learn more. Keep up the good work KNS.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:53 PM   #159
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We are working on a WW setup using the SL caliper and a 325 x 32 2 piece rotor made from a DBA rotor ring and our hat/bracket.
So I was looking at the AP racing setup with the 325x32 rotor, the SL setup would be more street oriented and up front costs are lower? Seems like the replacement rotor costs are going to be very close, Near as I can tell the DBA rings will be somewhere near the same price and the pad is the same shape, but SL comes in 16mm and 20mm versions. Seems to be remarkably similar to a layman.

I think the biggest problem of the weekend warrior brake kits is that it's pretty expensive to maintain a set of daily driver rotors / pads. That was the appeal of the LGT / z32 to me, you can get cheap stock LGT rotors for the street and DBA5000 for the track and not worry about pad incompatibilities and re-bedding.

Looking at the DBA application catalog, the closest match for a 1 piece would likely be their x928 rotor (324x30), but it's not a US application. Looks like there isn't a good 1 piece offset available outside of that Skyline rotor. Toyota has a 322x32 at a little higher offset than WRX and the next closest the other direction on offset is the STi Brembo that will put the caliper into the spokes of many wheels.

Last edited by Concillian; 04-12-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:47 PM   #160
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Somewhat related..

Is there a plan to make rear bracket, which allows 2 pot Nissan caliper to fit on WRX?

Would be awesome if rear bracket allows us to keep H6 rear rotor for those with H6 upgrade...

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:01 PM   #161
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Almost done with the install of the z32 calipers but ran into a small situation with the bracket hardware and needless to say the hardware store is now closed...I will finish tomorrow and try to post some pics of the finished product...KNS awesome job on the brackets themselves!!!
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:23 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by txl146 View Post
Is there a plan to make rear bracket, which allows 2 pot Nissan caliper to fit on WRX?

Would be awesome if rear bracket allows us to keep H6 rear rotor for those with H6 upgrade...
Nissan z32 rear rotor is the same thickness as the Subaru 2 pot rear rotor. 18mm vented... so the caliper won't work for the solid 10mm H6 rotor.

KNS already has brackets to fit the Subaru 2 pots, so just go that route if you want 2-pot rears... the Subaru 2 pots are available reman just like the z32 calipers are. Subaru 2 pots are also same rear torque as the H6. I'm not seeing a reason to go z32 rear. z32 front was to fit the 30mm rotor of the LGT that's too wide for a Subaru 4-pot.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:55 AM   #163
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Nissan z32 rear rotor is the same thickness as the Subaru 2 pot rear rotor. 18mm vented... so the caliper won't work for the solid 10mm H6 rotor.

KNS already has brackets to fit the Subaru 2 pots, so just go that route if you want 2-pot rears... the Subaru 2 pots are available reman just like the z32 calipers are. Subaru 2 pots are also same rear torque as the H6. I'm not seeing a reason to go z32 rear. z32 front was to fit the 30mm rotor of the LGT that's too wide for a Subaru 4-pot.
Correct.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:57 AM   #164
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So I was looking at the AP racing setup with the 325x32 rotor, the SL setup would be more street oriented and up front costs are lower? Seems like the replacement rotor costs are going to be very close, Near as I can tell the DBA rings will be somewhere near the same price and the pad is the same shape, but SL comes in 16mm and 20mm versions. Seems to be remarkably similar to a layman.

I think the biggest problem of the weekend warrior brake kits is that it's pretty expensive to maintain a set of daily driver rotors / pads. That was the appeal of the LGT / z32 to me, you can get cheap stock LGT rotors for the street and DBA5000 for the track and not worry about pad incompatibilities and re-bedding.

Looking at the DBA application catalog, the closest match for a 1 piece would likely be their x928 rotor (324x30), but it's not a US application. Looks like there isn't a good 1 piece offset available outside of that Skyline rotor. Toyota has a 322x32 at a little higher offset than WRX and the next closest the other direction on offset is the STi Brembo that will put the caliper into the spokes of many wheels.
It will use a 20mm thick pad - which are at MOST $150 even in Hawk DTC70 etc.

It will use a sub $200 rotor ring - (DBA made for us - same size as the C5 front but no "T3" - just a regular slot - a good bit cheaper than the DBA version)

-Ken
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:00 PM   #165
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This thread keeps getting better!
Wilwood Superlight Bracket is underway.


Last edited by KNS Brakes; 04-16-2013 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:37 PM   #166
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Bracket is underway.
Is this the bracket for the Nissan 2 pots??!?
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:22 AM   #167
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If someone can pm me once they have installed the z32 front calipers with the new brackets from kns...I have a question to ask after install...thanks
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:11 AM   #168
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I totally forgot about this. So it got made!? Sweet!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:16 AM   #169
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I totally forgot about this. So it got made!? Sweet!!!!!!!!
Yup. If any one is interested. I bought a set and now have a change of plans for the project pm me if you want to buy them.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:12 PM   #170
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Wilwood Superlight Bracket is underway.
Just throwing out the thought; any idea if a 11.75x1.25 rotor with an otherwise similar setup would fit under (RS 6-spoke for example) 16s? I'm just thinking that at Wilwood prices, it would be nice to have a nice beefy rotor shared in a size shared by circle track stuff with a good caliper and so on.
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:34 PM   #171
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Near as I can tell from drawings and photos, the radial superlite for a 1.25" rotor is wider than the z32 calipers. Spoke clearance would likely be a serious challenge. If it were doable, it would probably take a custom hat to go with the custom bracket to get the caliper mounted as inboard as possible and still have clearance for everything.

I've already done what keyboard legwork can be done to find that the LGT / z32 setup should clear some 16s, I had a post demonstrating a way to check fitment earlier in the thread (though I still don't know if offset is the same between FHI 4 pots and z32 4 pots). Based on that, it looked like the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 16's will clear with Subaru friendly offsets. If willing to use a spacer, I also think that the z32 setup will clear with a thinner spacer than a SL based kit would. I wish I still had my 6 spoke RS wheels to check some of this.

I'm not really sure such a kit has a home even if it does fit. Since it would certainly be more expensive up front than the z32 setup, it'd be a tough sell. Even if consumables were cheaper, it'd take a lot of track time to pay the difference, I'd think. The SL setup would certainly have a weight advantage, but so will the 325mm SL setup that KNS is working on... and that setup will certainly be able to handle HDPEs a lot better than an 11.75" setup. I just don't see a lot of demand for a kit that would be so similar to the z32 setup. It'd be a more motorsport oriented kit that probably couldn't handle the heat a motorsport oriented turbo Impreza would produce. It might be a better size for a tracked BRZ, though.

Last edited by Concillian; 04-27-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #172
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Enh, you're right about it being a limited audience probably. I just can't help but think that a 325mm rotor... I mean look, NASCAR Sprint Cup are legislated to that as a maximum rotor size, I doubt most HPDE guys are making anywhere near that sort of power. And in this country anyway, it's always seemed odd to me to try to make Japanese OEM calipers work when there's nice cheap NASCAR derived stuff with cheap pads in any compound and cheap good quality rotor rings available.

Enh, maybe I'll just make it myself, whichever.
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:37 PM   #173
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Enh, you're right about it being a limited audience probably. I just can't help but think that a 325mm rotor... I mean look, NASCAR Sprint Cup are legislated to that as a maximum rotor size, I doubt most HPDE guys are making anywhere near that sort of power. And in this country anyway, it's always seemed odd to me to try to make Japanese OEM calipers work when there's nice cheap NASCAR derived stuff with cheap pads in any compound and cheap good quality rotor rings available.

Enh, maybe I'll just make it myself, whichever.
There is an AP racing kit like this for the BRZ. It probably fits and has pistons sized to be appropriate for the WRX, since I think the BRZ brakes are the same as WRX brakes. So they "probably" bolt up and are appropriate in terms of bias.

299mm rotor x 32. It uses the 16mm superlite shape pad, but there isn't enough rotor to use the full height and they cut the height down a bit. I think they said rings were ~$160each?

That kit should be pretty close to the LGT / z32 in terms of heat capability, shorter, but wider and directional two piece rotors mean more efficient cooling if you can get some air over them. Of course lighter too. Two piece rotors are not going to crack as quick as the LGT 1 piece, so it could be a good option for what you're after, though not Wilwood.

They also have a version of the kit that uses the same 325x32 rotor that is in the competition AP racing STi setup, but the caliper is thinner and with 16mm pads. That one is intriguing to me, since I'm not sure my wheels will fit a superlite wide enough for a 20mm pad + 32mm rotor. The template for the 325x32 BRZ kit has 9mm more spoke clearance than the 325x32 STi kit due to having 8mm less pad in there and apparently they gained 1mm clearance somwhere else.

Spoke clearance is the only concern I have for the Superlite setup KNS is working on. 32mm rotor + 20mm pads + caliper... I think I'll have to replace wheels if I want that setup.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:37 PM   #174
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Staying on the off-topic path for a bit more then... I'll knock off talking about my ideas/preferences if anyone wants me to. Anyway!

Oh nice... actually, pretty close to what I was looking for; exact same rotors, except Howe Racing and some other places have them for about $120 apiece. It looks like they're using thinner pads than normal in the CP8350 to get it to accept a 32mm rotor. I was looking at the Wilwood forged narrow superlite radial 6 pots, which are still a bit narrower outboard of the disc than the APs, so possibly the best shot at spoke clearance. Piston area's also similar to the Subaru 4-pots, so that makes things easy. Not 100% sure offhand if it'll just flat out work, but it seems like with a custom hat it might be the best shot. Hell, I looked up the full bore GrN homologated AP setup, and the Wilwoods look to be a bit easier to fit than those... and I'm not really willing to shell out for that grade of APs anyway.

Either way, I'm an engineer with a machine shop at my disposal. It's just cheaper to chew the fat online to get an idea if something is feasible than to buy parts and metal to determine firsthand.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:08 PM   #175
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HI
I would like to try this set up on my WRX.
I'm from Slovakia.Could someone help me with measurements or drawing of bracket for Z32 calipers on WRX?
Buy them from the USA for me is more expensive than let them produce it for me here.
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