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09-03-2011, 11:07 AM | #126 | |
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09-03-2011, 03:00 PM | #127 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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SWIC
Location: nv
Vehicle:2002 Impreza WRX WRB |
Perfect, appreciate the feedback gabe!
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03-30-2012, 10:28 PM | #128 |
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RMIC
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Im doing this now, but converting to top feeds and topfeed tgv's in the process, stock wrx rails, sti fpr.
A note, make sure the total length, ie metal line on fuel rail and soft fuel line, is the same for feed and feed on both sides and return an ld return on both sides, 02 wrx rails the passenger rail has a significant ammount of extra metal fuel line to run through than any of the others. Ill take measurments when im done for an easy diy |
04-16-2012, 11:48 AM | #129 |
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Thank you very much for the detailed pics and your work. It's much appreciated!
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05-08-2012, 06:13 PM | #130 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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SCIC
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Vehicle:02 WRX 12 FXT |
bump! any update for how the fpr is done and connected for a WRX?
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10-03-2012, 03:06 PM | #131 |
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TXIC
Location: Tomball Tejas
Vehicle:08 STI 02 Z28 - project |
bump for my own reference :P
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11-16-2012, 10:16 PM | #132 |
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MAIC
Vehicle:2004 Sti wrb |
What size line is on the fpr. It's never mentioned and I doubt the stock one is long enough?
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07-12-2013, 06:27 PM | #133 |
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After much reading I'm still confused so maybe an Internet engineer can explain this to me. As far as fuel lines to/from the rail (parallel setup), I have read that some believe that they need to be equal length. It seems that the fpr will create the same amount of pressure for each return line regardless of length so long as the line doesn't run dry, but in that case the motor would be well past blown up. Someone drop some knowledge.
Edit: I realize there will be no hard data unless someone has a 4 wideband setup but hopefully someone knows a sound and proven engineering theory that would apply. Last edited by Ishart; 07-12-2013 at 06:35 PM. |
10-07-2015, 02:54 PM | #134 | |
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Vehicle:2008 IMPREZA STi Obsedian Black Pearl |
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anyways, doing this today on my 08 sti, should be interesting with the routing... |
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10-19-2017, 08:17 AM | #135 |
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I Hate Photobucket!!!!
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10-20-2017, 12:16 AM | #136 |
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Vehicle:05 Stage Free LGT ATP 3076, 6MT, AVO FMIC |
No kidding. They've made it pretty hard to repair the busted images, too. I have a few dozen pics in threads elsewhere and I've tried to download my images so I can host them elsewhere but their site is always slow or broken.
I even get the "upgrade your account to enable third-party hosting" fail images when I try to view my pics on THEIR web site, which is just ****ing asinine. |
11-03-2017, 02:28 PM | #137 |
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Update your photos..
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01-10-2018, 02:11 AM | #138 |
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Vehicle:2008 WRX |
so i will be attempting this on my 2008 wrx as i already have my manifold off for other reason, figured it cant hurt for a pretty low $$ investment.
I figure going parallel will be very beneficial as i run e85 a lot, but i do not want to fork over the money for fuel rails. My question to you guys is, will running my lines this way cause any issues, i plan to use the stock solid lines and run a small amount of FI hose to make the setup parallel. In the following pics, red is 5/16 FI hose, black are hard OEM lines, and yellow are the tees i plan to use. here is the car stock series fuel routing https://i.imgur.com/n6OeXZH.jpg and here is my plan, as simple as i could think to make it, and i have the room for the extra FI hose under the intake manifold as well as routing it out to the tee after the filter directly between the plenum as the stock lines run, will also keep stock FPR. https://i.imgur.com/rrMbx98.jpg i am not too familiar with how flow works, so does using a tee where the return lines meet create an issue with pulsation, should a dampener be added, or is this setup ok to run? I plan to use these tees as they are the smallest i could find, the barbs are 5/16". Also just cause it was brought up a few years back, 5/16" e85 compatible FI hose is running me $4.44/ft. https://i.imgur.com/pvJNGni.jpg Last edited by rubmetoasty; 01-10-2018 at 02:35 AM. |
01-10-2018, 07:05 AM | #139 |
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That's pretty close to how I ran mine. I kept the stock dampers in place and tee'd the lines under the manifold just keep them all equal length as possible. I might recommend flaring or scuffing up the ends of the hard line to keep the hose line from leaking. Over all it worked great for a few years for me until I needed to buy fuel rails anyways.
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01-10-2018, 12:29 PM | #140 | |
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Vehicle:2008 WRX |
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I was actually planning on flaring out every hard line end i plan to use just in case, thx for the heads up. |
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01-10-2018, 03:08 PM | #141 | |
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The only time parallel lines are necessary (or even beneficial) would be if the rails themselves caused a choke point in the system (i.e. rails are drilled to -6AN dia. and you want to run -8AN supply and return lines). I think a quick search on Google will reveal two things: - 75% or better of the parallel vs. series stuff grew out of the Subaru community. - 99% or better of the discussions on this topic (Subaru or otherwise) are all people throwing random theories out about pressure drop at the 'end of the rail'. Fluid systems *can* get complex... but we really don't need to get complex to see how parallel lines don't help you. (Let's come back to the issue of damping the system in a second, because this *is* a Subaru specific thing due to the placement of the filter and the later 2008+ system) Given an adequate rail diameter, explain to me why the last injector in the series would receive a lower pressure than the first one with these two details in mind: 1. You aren't running batch injection - all modern fuel injection systems have injectors firing in-order, one-by-one. 2. Your fuel pressure regulator is the last thing in the system and works with the pump to increase or decrease demand based on need. You will have frictional losses in pressure between the first injector and last injector, yes - but when the entire system friction loss is approximately 2-5 psi along the whole 15-20 ft. length from TANK to REGULATOR... how much do you really think you're losing in 12 in. or so of plumbing? A few other reasons you might not want parallel lines: - Greatly increased chance of leaks due to many, many more connection points. - If one line experiences a restriction, the other line will flow more; (path of least resistance). - Added cost without added benefit. All that in mind, I'd ask yourself if you need to run larger lines than the diameter of your fuel rails. If the answer is no, we can move on to the issue of fuel damping. Why does the USDM 04-07 WRX/STI (and all market 2008+ models) have fuel damping concerns? Because US requirements forced the filter from it's original location (on the LH strut tower) to the fuel tank and added dampers to the lines near the regulator and rails as a 'quick fix'. This applies to 04-07 models which didn't really see much of a problem. Moving the filter from the tank to the original location still provides damping effects and simplifies the system greatly. In 2008+ models, Subaru decided to let owners beta-test their fuel system that bypassed fuel in a different way (bypassed fuel was split between tank return and supply line - as a simplified explanation... basically Subaru tried to supply fuel to the rails in two directions). Why anyone would run parallel lines to fix this rather than just return the system to a simpler state is beyond me. Using a simple manifold referenced regulator is easy enough to do and I know of at least one manufacturer that makes a plug-and-play kit that requires only minor tuning housekeeping afterwards. Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 01-10-2018 at 03:18 PM. |
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01-10-2018, 07:24 PM | #142 | |
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I do a lot of research before i attempt any kind of project like this, and this was one i only decided on because i have the manifold off, and like you just mentioned, i was going off forum posts stating that "someone did some testing and found pressure fluctuation at the end of the second rail in the series. My thought process was elementary, i am an aerospace welder, and in my head running parallel made sense, but i did not consider that the injectors never fire in a batch, but as you stated, one by one. At this point i have not run the lines yet as im still waiting on a few new vacuum lines to replace while i have everything off, but your post is making me double think whether it is worth it. I know at my power levels fueling should not be an issue on the stock setup, with a aeromotive 340 stealth pump and removed stock fuel filter, running 10 micron Golan under the hood. |
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01-10-2018, 09:02 PM | #143 |
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also for anyone else that runs into this, i originally did not find the following thread when searching around on my phone, but Maxwell Power explains even better why going parallel on these engines is not ideal.
I will definately be keeping my fuel lines stock, just replacing the old brittle hoses with new line i bought for this project. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...2162858&page=2 |
01-11-2018, 05:38 PM | #144 | |
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Vehicle:2008 510whp/437tq WRX SWP w/FP XR Zero |
This sums it up.
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