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01-20-2005, 07:50 AM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 19364
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:1998 Impreza RS Black Mica Pearl |
Can I reuse block bolts/head bolts
I am rebuilding my motor and I was wondering if I could reuse the bolts that hold my block together and my head bolts, or are they torque to yield? I am assuming that the head bolts will have to be reused but I am not really sure on the bolts for the block.
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01-20-2005, 08:02 AM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 73416
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PA
Vehicle:05 CTS-v Stealth Grey |
Unless things are really different between domestic and foregin parts you should be able the reuse them. I've used the same bolts on a chevy 350 5 or 6 times. Though, if you need added strength (holding the head on, or the block together for a nasty engine) a set of really nice bolts is never a bad idea.
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01-20-2005, 08:38 AM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 61052
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Nashua, NH
Vehicle:1999 2.5 RS White |
although it is recommended to replace them every time you remove them (as the threads will stretch slightly after they are torqued) most mechanics at dealerships don't even do it. if you are building an uber-nasty motor though, ARP head studs are the way to go. (around $250 a set)
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01-20-2005, 08:49 AM | #4 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ |
I haven't replaced them on the last two motors I have put together, with no problems to date. And there is a very specific torque sequence and series. I am just pulling this from memory, so be sure to look it up, but it is something like
1-6 (you will need a manual to see which bolt is which #) to 21lb 1-6 to 52lbs back them off in order 180 degrees back them off in order another 180 degress tighten 1 and 2 to 27lb tighten 3-6 to 22lb tighten them all in sequence 90 degrees. Tighten them all in sequence again 90 degrees. Like I said, don't do it off my memory, which is poor, but you get the idea. If you don't do it this way you can warp your heads... |
01-20-2005, 09:35 AM | #5 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 61052
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Nashua, NH
Vehicle:1999 2.5 RS White |
Quote:
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01-20-2005, 03:42 PM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 19364
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:1998 Impreza RS Black Mica Pearl |
Thanks.
I have a subaru factory service manual, so I have all the torque specs. I was just wondering if you could use the headbolts or not.
As far as the guy with the chevy stuff, some bolts can be reused and some cannot. I just didn't know as to this specific application. I am building a fairly serious motor, but as far as the head bolts go, I don't think I need the ARP headstuds. Not yet at least. The next motor, they will be a must have. |
01-20-2005, 04:52 PM | #7 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 77586
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Boone, NC
Vehicle:2020 Subaru WRB |
I reused all the head bolts etc when I did my 4A-GE last year from the MR2 and I put 6k hard miles on it before I sold it with now problems, just make sure you torque them in the right order a little bit at a time
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01-20-2005, 06:56 PM | #8 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 6486
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: S.E. wisconsin
Vehicle:00 Impreza 2.5 RS Blue Ridge Pearl |
Yes you can re-use them.
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01-20-2005, 08:52 PM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 27261
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Wa
Vehicle:1999 I'm Ron Burgundy? |
You can but you are not suppose to. I am a mechanic and reusing headbolts is a no-no
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01-20-2005, 09:12 PM | #10 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 1847
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: brokenmotorsports.com
Vehicle:Team Broken: V6 GF rallyarmor.com |
Quote:
Every Head Set I have ever gotten has included new head bolts. Jay |
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01-20-2005, 09:44 PM | #11 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 21604
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Head Bolt Replacement
Hey, I just happend to be searching and thought I'd chime in...
This is taken from our Cylinder Head Package installation instructions; Caution: Cylinder Head Bolts are streched to yeild requiring that a new set of bolts is used each time the cylinder head is reinstalled. Installation notes: 1) Install new cylinder head gasket and cylinder head onto cylinder block 2) Tighten cylinder head bolts following the numerical order that follows. a) Tighten all bolts to 29 N***8729;m (3.0 Kg-m, 22 ft-lbs) in numerical sequence b) Tighten all bolts to 69 N***8729;m (7.0 Kg-m, 51 ft-lbs) in numerical sequence c) Back off all bolts by 180° d) Back off all bolts by a further 180° e) Tighten bolts 1 and 2 to 34 N***8729;m (3.5 Kg-m, 25 ft-lbs) f) Tighten bolts 3 - 6 to 15 N***8729;m (1.5 Kg-m, 11 ft-lbs) g) Tighten all bolts by 80 - 90° in numerical sequence h) Further tighten all bolts by 80 - 90° in numerical sequence Sorry I can't post the picture with the numerical sequence to illustrate this better. If you'd like to PM me I can forward you the file. We are working on a Tech Page for the website that will include all our installation instructions. Thanks, Keith |
01-20-2005, 09:58 PM | #12 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 19364
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:1998 Impreza RS Black Mica Pearl |
Hi Keith. Thanks for the info. I just called there tonight and spoke to someone (i forgot his name; i'm terrible with names) and got some very good info. You guys are the best out there. I wish you were closer to me! Anyway, thanks again for the help and I'll get some dyno numbers for you on that header as soon as the car is running.
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01-21-2005, 02:58 AM | #13 |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 64974
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My Shed, Melbourne, Australia
Vehicle:1995 WRX,APEXi,HKS,$ Faded, Stonechipped Red |
Just my two cents worth, but when you back the bolts off the full 360 Deg, you will have a bit of space to squirt some more lube under the washers/bolt heads-eliminated alot of 'bolt-grab' for me....
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01-21-2005, 03:04 AM | #14 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 62410
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: its bristol baby
Vehicle:2004 wrx w/o engine psm/carbon |
I have changed about 50 2.5 sohc head gaskets at a dealer and reused every single head bolt without one failure. If bolt replacement was required then subaru wouldn't pay the claims due to the bolts not being charged out on the repair order.
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01-21-2005, 03:10 AM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 30798
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: kansas city ks
Vehicle:2001 RS-T Hybrid 2.5>2.2T>257>2.35S |
I talked to ron at axis today because my arp head studs are a bit short for my sohc heads he told me I would be fine re using my headbolts as long as i use the proper tightening sequence etc.
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01-21-2005, 06:56 AM | #16 | |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 64974
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My Shed, Melbourne, Australia
Vehicle:1995 WRX,APEXi,HKS,$ Faded, Stonechipped Red |
Quote:
IF it was the case.... If you read the 'Shop Manual carefully it will give you specs to check the bolts against, measure, tension and measure....time consuming, but cheaper than replacing bolts!!!! Cheers, (btw:did you know that the average load on any one head bolt/stud under normal operating conditions is between 1-1.5 tonnes, and when an engine detonates it can rise as high as 7 tonnes!! PER BOLT!! ) Sixpack Subaru |
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01-21-2005, 07:54 AM | #17 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 73416
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PA
Vehicle:05 CTS-v Stealth Grey |
Well, I would follow the directions if you have explecet ones that say change the head bolts. Maybe chevy's are different, or it could be that since I started with a nice set of arp bolts I got away with it. Anyway, like I said in my first post "A nice set of new bolts is never a bad idea."
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01-21-2005, 09:20 AM | #18 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 30798
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: kansas city ks
Vehicle:2001 RS-T Hybrid 2.5>2.2T>257>2.35S |
I believe 8complex has reused his like 6+ times If I remember reading correctly.
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01-21-2005, 05:54 PM | #19 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 27261
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Wa
Vehicle:1999 I'm Ron Burgundy? |
I don't care who has or does reuse them. Never ever reuse headbolts. I know for a fact that Subaru does say to put new bolts in when removing head.
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01-22-2005, 01:35 AM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 17315
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
International
Location: Date Line Denies F-22s
Vehicle:MY95 Impreza 207C MY05 Forester 257X |
As the "by-the-book" technician, you should replace headbolts. Especially those applied to TTY. Actual mechanics don't and usually reuse them just once or twice. Some TTY bolts such as those for mid to late 90s Volvos had their factory recommendations set to no more than 5 times of reuse.
Reuse or using new, it's a divided opinion among mechanics and technicians. I know plenty who've reused headbolts with no problems and those individuals have been Subaru mechanics/technicians for longer than I existed. Many here on NASIOC. But, if one of them bolts snaps off as you torque it down, expect to have a very p00py day. -paK +1 |
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