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Old 08-05-2009, 06:02 PM   #2126
hotrod
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Any thoughts on M85 (102octane rating)?? Or even CNG (130octane rating) the conversion i was estimated for this was 4000$ on my 02 ??
M85 is no longer popular, it was tried about a decade ago, but lost out to E85.
M85 is about as powerful at E85, but retains most of the down sides of methanol, ie it is toxic, more corrosive, and requires even more fuel than E85 to make a usable mixture.

CNG is good in theory for things like busses and trucks around a factory campus but has problems on the highway. It is high octane but has no cooling effect like the evaporative cooling provided by ethanol. CNG must be converted to gas at the injection point and as a result displaces lots of air in the intake manifold with vapor, cutting down on the maximum power available from the engine unless special efforts are made to improve breathing to compensate for the loss in volumetric efficiency due to vapor displacement.

Natural gas conversions are the reason it is illegal to convert gasoline cars to alternative fuels. Back in the 1970-1980's there were lots of NG and propane conversions done, and they produced a lot of nitrous oxide emissions due to their high combustion temperatures.

Both fuels have use in specific locations where their disadvantages are minimized but E85 and ethanol has all the advantages that both fuels claim with very few down side effects.

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Old 08-26-2009, 02:19 PM   #2127
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Default Alcohol compliant Fuel Filter

Just as an fyi since it appears E85 is drying out the rubber material in our fuel filters.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...729586&page=13

I got mine today.

Last edited by SVT_WRX; 08-26-2009 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:36 PM   #2128
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Originally Posted by SVT_WRX View Post
Just as an fyi since it appears E85 is drying out the rubber material in our fuel filters.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/newr...eply&t=1729586

I got mine today.

Linky no worky
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Old 08-26-2009, 05:29 PM   #2129
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Linky no worky
Fixed. Try it now.
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Old 08-26-2009, 05:51 PM   #2130
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Fixed. Try it now.
How many miles were on your OE filter? I changed mine at 60k, just like the owners manual says. I went with the OE replacement filter from the Subaru dealer when installing my Walbro 255.... no problems to date but I'm always interested in findings. So you think the all metal filter is better?
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:27 PM   #2131
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Originally Posted by 05wrx09 View Post
How many miles were on your OE filter? I changed mine at 60k, just like the owners manual says. I went with the OE replacement filter from the Subaru dealer when installing my Walbro 255.... no problems to date but I'm always interested in findings. So you think the all metal filter is better?
I only put approximately 1000 miles on pump and 1000 miles on E. I wasn't experiencing any problems. I was just curious and decided to crack her open. Sure enough, the E was slowly eating away at the rubber like material inside of the filter. That being said, since all inserts of this new filter are made to handle E85 and other alcohol based fuels, I would say that it's far superior to filters that are not designed for E. Not only that, you can take it apart, clean it and use it again. The proof is in the pudding.

I'm still waiting for JSarv to crack his open and share his findings as well.

I do urge all E85 users to strongly consider upgrading to an alcohol fuel compliant fuel filter. It's great insurance and piece of mind for not that much IMO.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:35 AM   #2132
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I only put approximately 1000 miles on pump and 1000 miles on E. I wasn't experiencing any problems. I was just curious and decided to crack her open. Sure enough, the E was slowly eating away at the rubber like material inside of the filter. That being said, since all inserts of this new filter are made to handle E85 and other alcohol based fuels, I would say that it's far superior to filters that are not designed for E. Not only that, you can take it apart, clean it and use it again. The proof is in the pudding.

I'm still waiting for JSarv to crack his open and share his findings as well.

I do urge all E85 users to strongly consider upgrading to an alcohol fuel compliant fuel filter. It's great insurance and piece of mind for not that much IMO.
Absolutely...thanks for the info. Can you post a link to where you purchased the new filter? I tried looking around on the "JayRacing" website with no luck. I wish I would have seen this before I dumped $XX on my OEM filter from Subaru.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:45 AM   #2133
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Since we're talking about filters, I guess I'll post what I'm using.

I have 2 filters. A 100 micron 10an filter before the Bosche and a 40 micron 8an filter before the rails. Both are stainless mesh.
The main filter is a KRC filter I got from eBay. I'm thinking that 350gph should be enough flow...





This is the 40 micron filter:




They have them available in barbed configurations as well. The filter is flat, so I don't think it would work as the only filter unless you clean it frequently. I only added it because I wanted to catch particles smaller than 100 micron or pieces of my fuel pump if it ever failed. It flows 135gph.

Last edited by bluescoobywagon; 08-27-2009 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:58 AM   #2134
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:12 AM   #2135
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One thing folks should take careful note of about the Golan filter is the clear annodizing. It should be obvious, but you really don't want to expose raw aluminum to an ethanol blend, no matter how good you think it looks. (The screams of "it's corrosive! omg!" are way overdone, but you will definitely end up producing some undesirable material over time that you really don't want in your injectors.)

Obviously, note the seal material as well, but I think everyone is pretty aware of that. When I see what looks like a raw aluminum filter being pushed as ethanol-safe, though, I get a little nervous that people will miss the very important note about annodizing it, and think those cool-looking polished aluminum fuel rails and bare aluminum AN fittings are just fine.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:10 PM   #2136
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+1

That was one of my reasons for getting the KRC filter. It's hard anodized inside and out. My Aeromotive rails are also anodized inside and out. Some ebay rails aren't anodized on the inside because they're not truelly anodized, but have just been dyed instead.

The reaction with aluminum is why I need to get a custom made stainless surge tank. Every tank I could find was bare or polished aluminum...
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:26 PM   #2137
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So it appears that hard anodized aluminum is alcohol safe and is probably the way to go. However I asked a few DSM guys that have been using these same clear anodized fuel filters as soon as they hit the market and they have not reported any corrosion whatsoever.

That being said, I would think that clear or hard anodizied aluminum is E85 safe. But that's just what I think. I don't know if this is 100% true.

If I do see any signs of corrosion or if I don't, I'll report back.

Hard evidence is better than speculation IMO
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:51 PM   #2138
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If it says E85 E98 compatible I am sure it is I have one... Also these golan filter down to 10 micron...
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:13 PM   #2139
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If it says E85 E98 compatible I am sure it is I have one... Also these golan filter down to 10 micron...
...and flows 900 GPH not that our fuel pumps will ever flow that much...
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:48 PM   #2140
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Originally Posted by SVT_WRX View Post
So it appears that hard anodized aluminum is alcohol safe and is probably the way to go. However I asked a few DSM guys that have been using these same clear anodized fuel filters as soon as they hit the market and they have not reported any corrosion whatsoever.
I should be clear, since I might have been misunderstood: as long as it's annodized (clear or otherwise), you should be fine. Hard annodizing is obviously a stronger barrier, but you need some kind of barrier between the aluminum and the fuel.

What I'm warning about is the urge to look at these filters, see the shiny aluminum, and then proceed to litter the rest of the fuel system with bare aluminum like non-annodized aluminum fuel rails, AN fittings, fuel cells, etc. The filters Jay is selling should be just fine, but not all shiny toys are made the same.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:05 AM   #2141
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I should be clear, since I might have been misunderstood: as long as it's annodized (clear or otherwise), you should be fine. Hard annodizing is obviously a stronger barrier, but you need some kind of barrier between the aluminum and the fuel.
Thanks for clarifying.

Bare aluminum w/E85 = BAD
Clear or hard anodized aluminum w/E85 = GOOD
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:14 AM   #2142
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+1 to that.
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:35 AM   #2143
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subscribed
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Old 09-05-2009, 05:56 PM   #2144
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Just get this program : PDF Creating v2.0


PDF Creator: create PDF documents easily

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Old 09-07-2009, 10:01 AM   #2145
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so e85 is better then fuel and meth??
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:09 PM   #2146
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I have not read this whole thread and I expect the answer is in here someplace (but I did not find it) Can someone summarize their best tuning guidelines for a good cold start and E85?

More fuel? Less Fuel? (more but how much?)

More timing during cranking? Less timing during cranking?

Cheers

Last edited by mick_the_ginge; 09-07-2009 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 09-07-2009, 01:32 PM   #2147
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I answered my own question with a quick bit of tuning. Added some more fuel during cranking, removed some cranking timing. After this the car fired up quickly on the inital cold start. I'll try again tomorrow when the car is really cold again.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:41 AM   #2148
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I answered my own question with a quick bit of tuning. Added some more fuel during cranking, removed some cranking timing. After this the car fired up quickly on the inital cold start. I'll try again tomorrow when the car is really cold again.
Do report back. I can't imagine it's that cold though in September in Oregon? Wait until January in Colorado
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:43 AM   #2149
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It was a good test. It was taking multiple tries to get started before, not it fires up on the 2-3rd rotation which is pretty typical. I'm sure it will get harder when in gets colder.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:40 PM   #2150
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I richened up my cold start quite a bit and it really helped. I tried playing with the timing, but I dod not find any real benefits. BTW, "cold start" for me means below zero F air temps.
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